Russia vs Ukraine anyone watching this ignite?

[Cavman]

I definitely live in the 80's in my view of Russia or China. That will not stop. A good commie is a dead commie!

Agreed, but alot of us have been having to deal with the last 20 years of war. Let's take a break and just fight the commies that are already here and taking power in our govt

 

[BugI02]

https://fightforua.org/

You don't need a first strike capability, just a plane ticket. They'll provide you with everything you need.

What I am advocating, and what you objected to, was a nuclear first strike on the CCP/PLA

YOU want to make it about Ukraine, apparently, and have adopted the tired trope of anyone who doesn't want to run to the front lines somehow has their viewpoint invalidated

Do you also believe a desire for a firmer commitment to law and order requires one to join the police department?

As far as your worry that you would have to fight in such a war, do you really think that if the Russians attack us with nuclear weapons that in the aftermath we'll be loading up troop transports and sending ground forces to what is left of Russia?

 

[BugI02]

It was Azov that cut power and water in Meriupol more than two weeks ago(likely why the Ukrainian army leveled their headquarters with a missile attack in Meriupol). So what you posted is not really shocking to those paying attention to both sides of the story. Some of the stories out of Meriupol are really bad(they had the over 1k of the national police patrolling looting,raping ect well before the war). That force in Maripol is what set the UN off back in 2015.

https://www.securitycouncilreport.org/un-documents/ukraine/ (2015)
"UN human rights monitors also documented allegations of violations perpetrated with impunity by Ukrainian law enforcement officials -- mainly elements of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) -- including enforced disappearances, arbitrary and incommunicado detention,rape,looting,sex trafficking of women and children,torture and ill-treatment."
*So it has been happening in Mariupol for a loooong time. As the 2015 cease fire made it a "Neutral" area for military forces,and put the security of the area 100% in the hands of the SBU.

Ukrainian Armed Forces Destroyed Headquarters Of Azov Nationalist Battalion In Mariupol - Report

The headquarters of the Azov special detachment in Mariupol were hit with the Tochka-U tactical missile system by the Ukrainian...

southfront.org

Again with the naked pro-Russia positions

The first two sentences you post are accusations without any evidence, which you kind of loosely tack on to a reply about stories detailing the humiliation of Russian speakers and or sympathizers in the wannabe breakaway areas

As for the UN human rights monitor report on allegations of violations, please do allegations about Russian violations since 2015 also. Two wrongs don't make a right, but neither does one wrong justify anything in isolation

And the cited SouthFront article has several flaws, notably that they are not a disinterested party reporting just facts but also that they cite no sources and just make claims. It seems ... unhelpful ... to try to persuade us we are the victims of anti-Russian propaganda by citing anti-Ukraine propaganda

 

[DadSmith]

Agreed, but alot of us have been having to deal with the last 20 years of war. Let's take a break and just fight the commies that are already here and taking power in our govt

Anyone remember this?

 

[KG1]

they "strenuously object" to war.

Yep. Sometimes the pull a hammy while doing so.

 

[BigMoose]

Putin is threatening the use if tactical nukes. Would he use them in Ukraine? If he does would that start a war with nato?

That might be enough.

Nato did studies. The problem is that even if someone shows restraint with nukes. IE, just using one.. it leads to this escalating scenario where the opponent uses two in response, then the first guy uses four.. and before long, its a full exchange anyway.

 

[Keith_Indy]

That might be enough.

Nato did studies. The problem is that even if someone shows restraint with nukes. IE, just using one.. it leads to this escalating scenario where the opponent uses two in response, then the first guy uses four.. and before long, its a full exchange anyway.

Good thing Ukraine doesn't have their own nukes then, no retaliation...

 

[actaeon277]

And everyone thought MAD was a silly policy. (Mutual Assured Destruction)

But, when someone thinks, I can use a small one, or.. just one, I'll get away with it, now we have problems.
So, when Russia looks at the US right now, will they believe we will "retaliate in kind"?

Cause one side viewing the other side as "weak" is what causes wars.

 

[KG1]

And everyone thought MAD was a silly policy. (Mutual Assured Destruction)

But, when someone thinks, I can use a small one, or.. just one, I'll get away with it, now we have problems.
So, when Russia looks at the US right now, will they believe we will "retaliate in kind"?

Cause one side viewing the other side as "weak" is what causes wars.

See if we send a message and preemptively conduct a nuclear 1st strike on Russia and China right now they'll know we're not weak and they won't retaliate in kind. It's called the "Bug Doctrine"

 

[Tombs]

What I am advocating, and what you objected to, was a nuclear first strike on the CCP/PLA

YOU want to make it about Ukraine, apparently, and have adopted the tired trope of anyone who doesn't want to run to the front lines somehow has their viewpoint invalidated

Do you also believe a desire for a firmer commitment to law and order requires one to join the police department?

As far as your worry that you would have to fight in such a war, do you really think that if the Russians attack us with nuclear weapons that in the aftermath we'll be loading up troop transports and sending ground forces to what is left of Russia?

My problem is you demanding others sacrifice for your objectives. It's the same nonsense the communists say.

If you really believe in it, buy a plane ticket instead of demanding others serve your interests.

 

[actaeon277]

See if we send a message and preemptively conduct a nuclear 1st strike on Russia and China right now they'll know we're not weak and they won't retaliate in kind. It's called the "Bug Doctrine"

I'm not saying we should preemptively strike.
Just that we had 2 policies.
One, the use of any Weapon of Mass Destruction will result in retaliation in kind. And since the only WMD we admitted, was a nuke. So if we were attacked with any of the NBC (Nuke, Bio, Chem) we would nuke that country.
Second. That we would not sign a treaty saying we would NOT be the first to use a nuke.
The threat was that if NATO was being attacked, we reserved the right to overcome overwhelming numbers by using nukes.

Those policies seem bad, and have been made fun of for 50 years or so.
And yet...

 

[Tombs]

I'm not saying we should preemptively strike.
Just that we had 2 policies.
One, the use of any Weapon of Mass Destruction will result in retaliation in kind. And since the only WMD we admitted, was a nuke. So if we were attacked with any of the NBC (Nuke, Bio, Chem) we would nuke that country.
Second. That we would not sign a treaty saying we would NOT be the first to use a nuke.
The threat was that if NATO was being attacked, we reserved the right to overcome overwhelming numbers by using nukes.

Those policies seem bad, and have been made fun of for 50 years or so.
And yet...

Those policies also resulted in every tin-pot dictatorship trying to get nuclear weapons at any cost.

It's nothing short of a miracle that a terrorist hasn't obtained and used a nuke in a major city.

 

[KG1]

I'm not saying we should preemptively strike.
Just that we had 2 policies.
One, the use of any Weapon of Mass Destruction will result in retaliation in kind. And since the only WMD we admitted, was a nuke. So if we were attacked with any of the NBC (Nuke, Bio, Chem) we would nuke that country.
Second. That we would not sign a treaty saying we would NOT be the first to use a nuke.
The threat was that if NATO was being attacked, we reserved the right to overcome overwhelming numbers by using nukes.

Those policies seem bad, and have been made fun of for 50 years or so.
And yet...

The "Bug Doctrine" says we should just skip all of this and go for a nuclear first strike right now as a deterrent even though NATO and the US are not being attacked.

 

[Wolfhound]

Those policies also resulted in every tin-pot dictatorship trying to get nuclear weapons at any cost.

It's nothing short of a miracle that a terrorist hasn't obtained and used a nuke in a major city.

It’s probably just a matter of time. MAD has no deterrence with terrorists and false flag attacks. I think first world nations can analyze the fallout and get some idea of where the material came from but that is after the fact.

 

[smokingman]

Again with the naked pro-Russia positions

The first two sentences you post are accusations without any evidence, which you kind of loosely tack on to a reply about stories detailing the humiliation of Russian speakers and or sympathizers in the wannabe breakaway areas

As for the UN human rights monitor report on allegations of violations, please do allegations about Russian violations since 2015 also. Two wrongs don't make a right, but neither does one wrong justify anything in isolation

And the cited SouthFront article has several flaws, notably that they are not a disinterested party reporting just facts but also that they cite no sources and just make claims. It seems ... unhelpful ... to try to persuade us we are the victims of anti-Russian propaganda by citing anti-Ukraine propaganda

I may have posted the SouthFront link,but I found it here. https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/...liberation-is-near-for-imprisoned-population/

 

[Tombs]

It’s probably just a matter of time. MAD has no deterrence with terrorists and false flag attacks. I think first world nations can analyze the fallout and get some idea of where the material came from but that is after the fact.

Well, back when Vice news was capable of actual reporting rather than DUDE WEED LOL nonsense, Shane went to Bulgaria and found a private seller for a nuclear warhead.

I'd say it's a greater than 50% chance that at least one is in the hands of a terrorist group.

 

[Wolfhound]

I may have posted the SouthFront link,but I found it here. https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/...liberation-is-near-for-imprisoned-population/

I just looked into “Veterans Today” and it has some shady stuff associated with it.

 

[smokingman]

I just looked into “Veterans Today” and it has some shady stuff associated with it.

It does. It even has an editor that was formerly in Pakistan intelligence.
The problem is finding any news source that is honest and not shady.
Given how controlled news actually is( https://techstartups.com/2020/09/18...dia-america-illusion-choice-objectivity-2020/ ) finding any source that is not shady is nearly impossible. If you have any source for news that is not shady I would likely enjoy reading it.

 

[Wolfhound]

It does. It even has an editor that was formerly in Pakistan intelligence.
The problem is finding any news source that is honest and not shady.
Given how controlled news actually is( https://techstartups.com/2020/09/18...dia-america-illusion-choice-objectivity-2020/ ) finding any source that is not shady is nearly impossible. If you have any source for news that is not shady I would likely enjoy reading it.

I get your point. However, that site is so pro-Moscow that it is suspected of being ran by Russians as disinformation. Of course, I have not put in the time to verify the accusations.

I find the BBC to be at least a decent source of news.

 

[Tombs]

I get your point. However, that site is so pro-Moscow that it is suspected of being ran by Russians as disinformation. Of course, I have not put in the time to verify the accusations.

I find the BBC to be at least a decent source of news.

I've been watching this place. https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates