Politically Motivated Violence Thread PART 2

[jamil]

From the perspective of legal, statutory justification for the use of deadly force in self-defense: is there a difference? No, I do not think that there is. Whatever imminent threat that might have existed (and that is a stretch, assuming that a face slap constitutes an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm) absolutely no longer exists when the would-be threat physically extricates himself from the confrontation (whether "retreating"or "creating distance").

And as for the spray: the shooter was the initial, physical aggressor, and unlawfully made physical contact with the victim. The use of spray in self-defense in that circumstance, thus, would have been legally justified. Ergo, at no time was the shooter legally justified in using deadly force against his victim.

Comparison with police is a good point. If it were an unarmed Black man shot by police in the same scenario, how many nights of “peaceful protests” would be justified?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Comparison with police is a good point. If it were an unarmed Black man shot by police in the same scenario, how many nights of “peaceful protests” would be justified?

...And how many people on INGO would call it “justified?”
See, it works both ways.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

...And how many people on INGO would call it “justified?”
See, it works both ways.

Ah. So it IS for the trollolz.


I’m shocked.

 

[Kutnupe14]

We'll set aside, for the moment, the fact that the shooter was not a legal/legitimate bodyguard/security, per applicable, state statutes/requirements.

Regardless, even if he were, a news crew hiring "security" does not give said, hired security the legal authority to put his hands on someone. The very same use-of-force laws apply to hired security as would apply to any other non-LEO citizen, under the same circumstances.

I agree. The same rules apply. If someone slaps another, it’s not illegal to draw down on them. And I challenge you to find a case to the contrary. When someone deploys a chemical agent meant to incapacitate, then as long as you can articulate why deadly force is appropriate, it flies. For me, I’m not going to give somebody else the benefit of the doubt that they won’t continue to harm me after my ability to defend myself is diminished.

 

[BugI02]

Well Darwin caught up with him. Don't slap a guy, and then try to run away (or break into a building with a guy pointing a gun at you). If he wants to throw down, don't be a %$#@*, and step up if he thinks he Billy Bad A.

Now do don't struggle with the police with a knife in your hand, or resist arrest for passing a counterfeit bill while overdosing on your own dope trying not to get caught in possession, or be involved with the drug trade and let your boyfriend shoot at police serving a valid warrant yada yada yada

I am left to wonder what your take would be if security boi had been outdrawn and shot in the face

Somehow I think you only approve of the shootings of people you don't approve of. Not saying you're the Lone Ranger in that respect

JUSTICE FOR LEE KELTNER! Too early?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Now do don't struggle with the police with a knife in your hand, or resist arrest for passing a counterfeit bill while overdosing on your own dope trying not to get caught in possession, or be involved with the drug trade and let your boyfriend shoot at police serving a valid warrant yada yada yada

I am left to wonder what your take would be if security boi had been outdrawn and shot in the face

Somehow I think you only approve of the shootings of people you don't approve of. Not saying you're the Lone Ranger in that respect

JUSTICE FOR LEE KELTNER! Too early?

Well you need to read more of my posts. Michael Brown? Good shoot. Kyle Rittenhouse? Good shoot. I’ve said as much in past posts. So which people do you think I don’t “approve” of?

 

[BugI02]

Well you need to read more of my posts. Michael Brown? Good shoot. Kyle Rittenhouse? Good shoot. I’ve said as much in past posts. So which people do you think I don’t “approve” of?

Neither of which I indicated. Those are descriptions of Father Jacob Blake, Saint Floyd and Mother Breonna - as I believe you know

 

[Kutnupe14]

Neither of which I indicated. Those are descriptions of Father Jacob Blake, Saint Floyd and Mother Breonna - as I believe you know

You said “only,” so I’m trying to see what the criteria for your statement is.
...and you’re saying, outside of Floyd, I made statements in defense of those persons?

 

[jamil]

...And how many people on INGO would call it “justified?”
See, it works both ways.

I was pretty sure you would say that. Doesn’t matter though. If it would be a bad shoot for a cop, it’s a bad shoot for Dolloff regardless of biases.

 

[jamil]

Well you need to read more of my posts. Michael Brown? Good shoot. Kyle Rittenhouse? Good shoot. I’ve said as much in past posts. So which people do you think I don’t “approve” of?

George Zimmerman.

 

[Kutnupe14]

George Zimmerman.

I know it’s wishful thinking on my part, but my ultimate opinion on that instance, posted here on INGO, was that there wasn’t enough proof to convict Zimmerman. No one, not you, I, or anyone else can say definitively that Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin. Nor can anyone say that Martin didn’t attack him leading to a self-defense shooting by Martin.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I was pretty sure you would say that. Doesn’t matter though. If it would be a bad shoot for a cop, it’s a bad shoot for Dolloff regardless of biases.

It wouldn’t be a bad shoot for a cop. I don’t what cops you know, but I don’t know any that’s going to let a guy slap them, and then pepper spray them in the face. None.

 

[jamil]

It wouldn’t be a bad shoot for a cop. I don’t what cops you know, but I don’t know any that’s going to let a guy slap them, and then pepper spray them in the face. None.

So a cop’s gonna shoot a guy for slapping him?

 

[Kutnupe14]

So a cop’s gonna shoot a guy for slapping him?

Annnnnnd......?

 

[daddyusmaximus]

So a cop’s gonna shoot a guy for slapping him?

NO.. you're not listening. He not only got slapped, but also pepper sprayed. All indications were that it was escalating from there. Very good chance he was about to be in a life or death struggle for his own weapon. As we know, many officers are killed with their own weapon, so yes... it most likely would have been a good shoot for an officer.

 

[jamil]

Nah

 

[KLB]

It wouldn’t be a bad shoot for a cop. I don’t what cops you know, but I don’t know any that’s going to let a guy slap them, and then pepper spray them in the face. None.

You keep saying he was pepper sprayed. He was drawing before Keltner started to deploy his spray. He wasn't firing in reaction to the spray, the spray was used in reaction to the drawing of the gun.

 

[kickbacked]

I dont know who's on who's side here. But the guy swung at someones head, and he has a weapon in his hand the entire time. Ring on every finger too. He was looking for a dance partner and he found one.

Play stupid games win stupid prizes. What was the argument with the black guns matter guy over? What did the guy who got shot t shirt say?

 

[Kutnupe14]

You keep saying he was pepper sprayed. He was drawing before Keltner started to deploy his spray. He wasn't firing in reaction to the spray, the spray was used in reaction to the drawing of the gun.
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And what’s illegal about drawing a gun after being forcefully slapped by another person? I’ll put it this way. If I drew up a PC for pointing a firearm, and put in the minor details that the “victim” issued a threat, was carrying pepper spray in his hand, and slapped the accused, I’d expect a prosecutor to give me the side eye, and then laugh me out of his office.

 

[maxipum]

NO.. you're not listening. He not only got slapped, but also pepper sprayed. All indications were that it was escalating from there. Very good chance he was about to be in a life or death struggle for his own weapon. As we know, many officers are killed with their own weapon, so yes... it most likely would have been a good shoot for an officer.

NOPE. Bad shoot Keltner was backing away. Bad shoot no matter who you are.