WOW, it’s amazing that you KNOW exactly what I intended. Does your brain ever hurt from everything you THINK you know?Yeah, there’s no implied purple in that post. If that’s what you meant, you failed miserably.
WOW, it’s amazing that you KNOW exactly what I intended. Does your brain ever hurt from everything you THINK you know?Yeah, there’s no implied purple in that post. If that’s what you meant, you failed miserably.
Was he retreating or creating distance? Can we agree that there’s a difference between the two?How do you justify his shooting someone retreating as being reasonable?
If you say so. The post speaks for itself.WOW, it’s amazing that you KNOW exactly what I intended. Does your brain ever hurt from everything you THINK you know?
Quick question. Can you draw down on someone who just, as you put it, “bitch slapped” you?Nah. If it’s a fair trial Dolloff’s going to prison. But this is the land of fairies and pixie dust and a number of potential jurors who are sympathetic to seeing right-wingers get theirs. Probably gonna be at least one or two Kut’s on the jury.
Had the security guard not used excessive force I have no doubt Keltner could have been charged with assault. But getting bitch slapped isn’t a deadly force situation. Yeah, sure, it’s embarrassing AF. Either fight back or go home and cry to mommy, but you don’t draw and shoot over that.
So your contention is he was backing up to use his spray, and was simply outdrawn?Was he retreating or creating distance? Can we agree that there’s a difference between the two?
It didn’t look to me as if he was wanting to disengage more than it looked like he was moving back to re-engage.
After moving back he then deployed his spray. You think it’s reasonable to believe that he would’ve rather used his spray in a situation where he would’ve almost certainly also sprayed himself, rather than create distance to avoid that? That doesn’t seem tactically sound to me.
I am going to guess, not without going to court and convincing a jury that you felt in danger of much worse.Quick question. Can you draw down on someone who just, as you put it, “bitch slapped” you?
Well yes. We can see in the picture the spray in the air, and slide recoil. Who do you think pull the trigger first?So your contention is he was backing up to use his spray, and was simply outdrawn?
I think they will have a hard time selling that in court.
He was not licensed armed security, and I cannot wait to see what his training looks like.You’re calling a security guard placing himself in-between an aggressive advancing subject as “laid hands on,” and essentially implying that’s battery. Well that depends. Is it reasonable for another to believe that security guard thought that imminent harm was about to occur to his protectees? I personally think so. How do you interpret a person coming towards you saying “get the cameras out of here, or I’m going the $&@¥ you up”? Should a security guard not take that clear threat seriously, and just stand by the wayside? Him intervening and slowing Keltner’s advance isn’t not battery; at least not to me.
Yet it seems reasonable to you that when he got 'decked', which was a not-unforeseeable prospect, that he can draw on and the immediately kill an unarmed man who is retreating? That's why I made the comparison, they both had laid hands on each other. By your reasoning, either one should be able to draw and fire.I can agree that not being properly licensed is somewhat problematic, but ultimately, I think the security guard is covered. Most of us have seen two guys about to get into a fight, and some other guy gets between them often placing his hand on one if not both of the idiots. Listening to Bug, it would seem that if one of those guys decked him, they’d be covered because he placed a hand on them while trying to prevent them from engaging in violence. That just doesn’t seem reasonable to me. I’m not saying the guy deserved to be shot, but IMO his overall action and words illustrate that he was clearly the aggressor.
Wouldn’t that pretty much be the same as slapping him back?relying on Mr Colt or Gaston to make him equal to the task he set for himself
All we have right now is a motor drive picture sequence, I certainly hope video exists (maybe that 'news' crew he was 'protecting' so well). Given what I have as evidence, I see no time elapsing between the draw stroke and the shot to assess the situation. That's why I believe he had already made the decision to shoot before or as he went for his firearmWas he retreating or creating distance? Can we agree that there’s a difference between the two?
It didn’t look to me as if he was wanting to disengage more than it looked like he was moving back to re-engage.
After moving back he then deployed his spray. You think it’s reasonable to believe that he would’ve rather used his spray in a situation where he would’ve almost certainly also sprayed himself, rather than create distance to avoid that? That doesn’t seem tactically sound to me.
Well Darwin caught up with him. Don't slap a guy, and then try to run away (or break into a building with a guy pointing a gun at you). If he wants to throw down, don't be a %$#@*, and step up if he thinks he Billy Bad A.He was not licensed armed security, and I cannot wait to see what his training looks like.
By going hands on he set himself up for that kind of confrontation, and he was not wearing a badge so he doesn't get to use lethal force to accomplish his goals when he gets in over his head, nor get any presumption that what he did was in any way legal when it goes south
You can spin it any way you want, but he killed a man for slapping him, all while that man was retreating. If he was being tried in a red state he would be toast, but since he murdered the right kind of victim, like officer Ashli killer, not holding my breath to see justice done
Can I? You mean legally? That’s sketchy territory. Would a reasonable person believe they were danger to justify lethal force for being bitch-slapped? I think it would take more context than just being bitch slapped to justify drawing down on someone.Quick question. Can you draw down on someone who just, as you put it, “bitch slapped” you?
Didn't you make that same point before? You could probably just look up our answers then.Well yes. We can see in the picture the spray in the air, and slide recoil. Who do you think pull the trigger first?
And for all those reasons, the shooter is now charged with second degree murder.He put himself in a volatile situation, and was overtly aggressive. He got in someone`s face, instigated physical contact, and caused someone, very likely, to fear for their life or physical well being. I`d say the shooting was justified, but again, a jury will sort it out.
We'll set aside, for the moment, the fact that the shooter was not a legal/legitimate bodyguard/security, per applicable, state statutes/requirements.You’re calling a security guard placing himself in-between an aggressive advancing subject as “laid hands on,” and essentially implying that’s battery. Well that depends. Is it reasonable for another to believe that security guard thought that imminent harm was about to occur to his protectees? I personally think so. How do you interpret a person coming towards you saying “get the cameras out of here, or I’m going the $&@¥ you up”? Should a security guard not take that clear threat seriously, and just stand by the wayside? Him intervening and slowing Keltner’s advance isn’t not battery; at least not to me.
From the perspective of legal, statutory justification for the use of deadly force in self-defense: is there a difference? No, I do not think that there is. Whatever imminent threat that might have existed (and that is a stretch, assuming that a face slap constitutes an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm) absolutely no longer exists when the would-be threat physically extricates himself from the confrontation (whether "retreating"or "creating distance").Was he retreating or creating distance? Can we agree that there’s a difference between the two?
It didn’t look to me as if he was wanting to disengage more than it looked like he was moving back to re-engage.
After moving back he then deployed his spray. You think it’s reasonable to believe that he would’ve rather used his spray in a situation where he would’ve almost certainly also sprayed himself, rather than create distance to avoid that? That doesn’t seem tactically sound to me.
Likely, insufficient facts or context to answer thoroughly. But, absent that: no, I can't imagine that a mere "bitch slap", alone, would rise to the level of causing reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm.Quick question. Can you draw down on someone who just, as you put it, “bitch slapped” you?
That might be the Hot Taek of the Day, right there: being unlawfully shot, equated to a Darwin award.Well Darwin caught up with him. Don't slap a guy, and then try to run away (or break into a building with a guy pointing a gun at you). If he wants to throw down, don't be a %$#@*, and step up if he thinks he Billy Bad A.