Obamacare: Say goodnight, Gracie...

[IndyDave1776]

I'd like to hear from Trump's most ardent supporters on this. Borders and illegal immigration was one of his biggest campaign issues. Unless there's some strategy involved here I'm not smart enough to see, it appears he's flipping on one of the foundational issues he ran on.

I enthusiastically supported Trump, but that has to be taken into context. His greatest appeal was actually having a good chance to win which, contrary to propagandist polls, I recognized early on. In his absence, we would have had ¡Jeb! shoved up our asses, who in turn would have had his ass handed to him in the general election just like Romney, McStupid, and Dole, and so far as I am concerned, anyone with half a brain should be able to see that pattern where the media carries the weakest Republican who can manage to get any traction in order to set him up for the kill in November. Simply breaking that cycle and avoiding Hillary in the White House was enough for me as I would rather have someone who is not my first choice rather than a sworn enemy. I considered anything accomplished beyond that a bonus.

My guess with Trump and immigration is that...

He may have come off more harsh than he really is in order to establish a bargaining position which will allow him to 'compromise' and end up with what he really wanted.

He may really want to lock down the border and deport anyone here illegally but has come to the realization that the chamber-o-commerce RINOs won't have any of it, nor will the Democrats.

He may be sufficiently tired of trying in vain to push legislation that he has deliberately set a time bomb that congress HAS to address in some way other than saying, "mañana" and repeating themselves tomorrow, and the next day, and the next decade.

He may have something else up his sleeve yet to be revealed as he has shown a habit of being less than predictable.

 

[bwframe]

Not just the Silicon Valley types. You can hardly turn the news on this week without some company SPOX or another supporting DACA. For example, I read a statement br GM's CEO decrying the cancelling of this program. This is the new hotness now...all the cool kids are for open borders and lawlessness now.

And then there are the rest of us.

 

[JettaKnight]

Not just the Silicon Valley types. You can hardly turn the news on this week without some company SPOX or another supporting DACA. For example, I read a statement br GM's CEO decrying the cancelling of this program. This is the new hotness now...all the cool kids are for open borders and lawlessness now.

And not just executives.

There's a lot to like about a program that keeps a talented, vetted workforce which pays taxes, doesn't qualify for SS, and other handouts.

There's a lot to dislike about removing productive workers, paying for all the federal LEO overhead, deporting costs, lost productivity, loss in morale, etc., etc.

 

[actaeon277]

https://conservativetribune.com/san...2017-09-17&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons


Sanders invites a Canadian Doctor on show.
But, the picture she paints is not helping his cause.

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube;cOlibbx5sx0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOlibbx5sx0[/video]

 

[hoosierdoc]

Stick to comedy Jimmy

and this bill sucks

 

[Kutnupe14]

Stick to comedy Jimmy

and this bill sucks

I haven't looked into it that much, care to expound? I do know Rand Paul hates this one even more than the others.

 

[bwframe]

... this bill sucks

I agree, but wonder if we don't need to go ahead and get a first step?

There might be more momentum if we can go ahead and get a win over the disrupters. If we can take away their "control of the WH, Senate, House and still couldn't pass.." narrative, that hurdle could make a difference going forward.

We might be able to actually get the the whole mess repealed eventually, but we have to have a start. So far, nothing's getting started.

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube;cOlibbx5sx0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOlibbx5sx0[/video]

Does Jimmy Kimmel Even Understand the GOP Healthcare Bill? | 93.1 WIBC


[FONT=&amp]...WIBC host Tony Katz spoke with Ed Henry from Fox News Wednesday, who offered up a few hypothetical questions he'd like to ask Kimmel.
[/FONT]
Henry:

I don't understand why Jimmy Kimmel isn't getting the question from anyone, 'What if you Obamacare in Arizona where rates spiked 115% and your family can't afford it anymore, or you're in Iowa and your Obamacare exchange has gone the way of the dustbowl and it's gone?'

...I just think not enough people are asking [Kimmel] about the current system and saying if [Kimmel's son] was not the son of a famous talk show host, would he be covered under Obamacare right now?

...Think about the people who are not covered under the current system before throwing stones at what might be pushed to try and improve the current system...
​

.

 

[PaulF]

I agree, but wonder if we don't need to go ahead and get a first step?

There might be more momentum if we can go ahead and get a win over the disrupters. If we can take away their "control of the WH, Senate, House and still couldn't pass.." narrative, that hurdle could make a difference going forward.

We might be able to actually get the the whole mess repealed eventually, but we have to have a start. So far, nothing's getting started.

I don't understand this line of thinking.

It looks to me like you are saying that it's okay to advance terrible legislation, so long as it is "your side" pushing their agenda onto unwilling Americans instead of "the other side".

If republicans pass a bill that does not meaningfully lower the out-of-pocket healthcare expenses for the average American without lowering the quality of care, all they are really doing is taking full ownership of the "American Heathcare Crisis". Everything wrong with American Heathcare will be placed solidly in the lap of the Republican Party as a whole, linked with the most unpopular president in modern American history.

Without meaningful reforms that return lower actual healthcare costs, "Trumpcare" is nothing more than a punchline to be used to turn Republican candidates into punching bags.

Americans are deeply divided over healthcare. A one-size-fits-all approach ends up fitting no one. Republicans are supposed to believe in the power of the market, perhaps they should focus on an approach that first allows the market to work, then provide a plan for those who "fall through the cracks in the system"

If Republicans insist on sowing this wind, they are going to be the ones that reap a whirlwind.

 

[Ericpwp]

With the republican party ranging from democrat to libertarian it is much harder to advance legislation then the democratic drones that just fall in lock step. Sending it to the states moves the burden of making everyone in the country happy to making everyone in the state happy. O care is unsustainable. That is on the D's.

 

[rhino]

With the republican party ranging from democrat to libertarian it is much harder to advance legislation then the democratic drones that just fall in lock step. Sending it to the states moves the burden of making everyone in the country happy to making everyone in the state happy. O care is unsustainable. That is on the D's.

You just enlightened me. I have said in the past that the only thing I like about Republicans is that they are not Democrats. You're absolutely right that some Republicans really are Democrats in every practical sense. I need a new phrase.

 

[jamil]

You just enlightened me. I have said in the past that the only thing I like about Republicans is that they are not Democrats. You're absolutely right that some Republicans really are Democrats in every practical sense. I need a new phrase.

Well no, they're still Republicans. Bot are a club of members. The thing that really makes you one or the other is your membership. The difference is the exclusivity of the membership. Democrats have a much narrower exclusivity in terms of ideological diversity. Republicans are more ideologically diverse than democrats. That's why it's easier for them to stick together.

 

[bwframe]

I don't understand this line of thinking.

It looks to me like you are saying that it's okay to advance terrible legislation, so long as it is "your side" pushing their agenda onto unwilling Americans instead of "the other side".

If republicans pass a bill that does not meaningfully lower the out-of-pocket healthcare expenses for the average American without lowering the quality of care, all they are really doing is taking full ownership of the "American Heathcare Crisis". Everything wrong with American Heathcare will be placed solidly in the lap of the Republican Party as a whole, linked with the most unpopular president in modern American history.

Without meaningful reforms that return lower actual healthcare costs, "Trumpcare" is nothing more than a punchline to be used to turn Republican candidates into punching bags.

Americans are deeply divided over healthcare. A one-size-fits-all approach ends up fitting no one. Republicans are supposed to believe in the power of the market, perhaps they should focus on an approach that first allows the market to work, then provide a plan for those who "fall through the cracks in the system"

If Republicans insist on sowing this wind, they are going to be the ones that reap a whirlwind.

Right, and Trump will never win.

Healthcare has no business being a govt program. Hopefully this is a foot in the door to start to get us back out of that moras. At the very least we need a win to shut up the other side.

We can tell this is the right path from those who are "up in arms" about it.

 

[Alpo]

So, where do you start? No Surgeon General. No FDA?

I wonder what the "free market" would look like. Unless you get rid of patent protection...which is also a government program...you don't have a free market and we get $1000 epi-pen and $89,000/annual deflazacort pharma barons increasing your med prices across the board.

9% of Americans are diabetics. Are they all democrats?

 

[PaulF]

Right, and Trump will never win.

Healthcare has no business being a govt program. Hopefully this is a foot in the door to start to get us back out of that moras. At the very least we need a win to shut up the other side.

We can tell this is the right path from those who are "up in arms" about it.

So, how is replacing one terrible federal program with another a "win"? That was the whole point of my post. Big government is okay as long as Trump is the one signing off on it?

It's only a "win" if Healthcare costs trend downward for consumers as a result...anything else only adds to the problem and makes Republicans responsible for the entire mess.

 

[bwframe]

Agreed on insurance costs going down. That's the whole premise of privatization and competition.

Elimination of regulation, the FDA weaponization and tort reform will also bring costs back into line and promote the competition needed to do so. We need to be able to compare our health insurance pricing at Walmart vs Amazon.

There will never be a "win" for the socialist crowd who think that everyone else should pay for their healthcare. They should find a country that believes in such to move to. Good luck to them, it is not sustainable in our culture.

 

[Ericpwp]

So what is this saying? The people that champion it don't like it enough to sign up? Or they just ignore the law? Where is the Medicaid dot? And where does it overlap?

 

[Ericpwp]

Sending it to the states is less big government then the current program.

Costs can go down if the states do away with all of the coverage mandates.

 

[Alpo]

The graphic depicts enrollment through exchanges.

The remainder are all interesting questions. Have you heard of Google?