Legalize It All? Harper's Weekly

[Jludo]

I don't doubt drug use will increase, it's a pesky thing, that freedom.
Freedom has a lot a lot of costs associated with it and a lot of trust put into people's hands who sometimes aren't responsible with it. You cannot and should not legislate morality.

 

[dwagner3701]

You're right about not legislating morality.......but I don't want to finance all of the dead beat dumb a$$ drug users by way of tax payer funded treatment centers. If you want to let all of the druggies die in the street....legalize away. If you want to pay for all of the extra crimes that go with drug use ....legalize away.

 

[Jludo]

You're right about not legislating morality.......but I don't want to finance all of the dead beat dumb a$$ drug users by way of tax payer funded treatment centers. If you want to let all of the druggies die in the street....legalize away. If you want to pay for all of the extra crimes that go with drug use ....legalize away.

You're paying for the drug users either way, full prisons and the dea or treatment centers, pick your poison.

 

[phylodog]

Freedom isn't always pretty.

Free people have the right to poison themselves.

Free people have the right to kill themselves.

Agreed but I would also add that free people should have the right to not support others.

 

[phylodog]

Imagine for a moment that we stopped throwing billions at incarcerating or finding ways to catch our citizens (and making HUGE profits off of it i.e. for-profit prisons) and instead threw that money at HELPING them

You started off strong then failed horribly. If I'm going to be forced to hand over money one way or the other I'd prefer spending it to keep scumbags away from my family, not paying for their "treatment" in the halfway house bought with tax money across the street.

 

[Jludo]

You started off strong then failed horribly. If I'm going to be forced to hand over money one way or the other I'd prefer spending it to keep scumbags away from my family, not paying for their "treatment" in the halfway house bought with tax money across the street.

How's that system working out for us? Drug addicts aren't necessary scumbags.
Treat addiction as the medical condition it is.

 

[rugertoter]

Well, legalizing any drug would certainly suck the profit out of pushing it.

 

[phylodog]

How's that system working out for us? Drug addicts aren't necessary scumbags.
Treat addiction as the medical condition it is.

I prefer not to be held accountable for the decisions of others. I've never been struck down with addiction by standing in an elevator with an addict. It may be a medical condition but it's a chosen medical condition.

I don't see an endless offering of "treatment" paid for by those who choose not to become addicts as a viable solution. Sorry.

Legalize drugs, all drugs, do it tomorrow. Spend a bit of time educating kids about the meaning of the word accountability (most schools have banned the word these days). Let the cards fall where they may.

 

[Tombs]

Considering I've had crippling back and neck pain (Couple fused disks and a fairly displaced one) for the past 7 years and can't find a doctor willing to do a single thing about it besides tell me to take Tylenol, it'd be nice to have the option of something to survive the bad days.

 

[OakRiver]

You're right about not legislating morality.......but I don't want to finance all of the dead beat dumb a$$ drug users by way of tax payer funded treatment centers.

Your tax dollars are already being used for this.

If you want to let all of the druggies die in the street....legalize away.

Where do you think they are currently dying?

If you want to pay for all of the extra crimes that go with drug use ....legalize away.

Remind me how many Valentine's Day Massacres we've had over booze since we legalized alcohol.

Well, legalizing any drug would certainly suck the profit out of pushing it.

Bingo. This has the knock on effect of reducing crime, and the expenses associated with that.

 

[Jludo]

Considering I've had crippling back and neck pain (Couple fused disks and a fairly displaced one) for the past 7 years and can't find a doctor willing to do a single thing about it besides tell me to take Tylenol, it'd be nice to have the option of something to survive the bad days.

You scumbag...ha I agree with you, I had terrible strep this week and would have liked to have that option, even if others might abuse that right.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Did violence increase or decrease with the end of prohibition? The gangs had to find other things to shoot people over, and other ways to make money. They either have to go legitimate, or find something else illegal. Society provides them plenty of illegal things to profit from. Did alcohol consumption decrease significantly when prohibition started, or increase when it stopped? Some would say that making something legal would increase its demand, but then there's the factor of taboo, that draws in the curious and the nonconformist. The gangsters couldn't glamorize the badness of what they're doing, if it was something that wasn't forbidden, that anyone could do.

Some, definitely not all, but some of these drugs have the potential not to do as much harm, if you can buy a pure, quality controlled dose at the store, vs who knows what you get on the street. They cut cocaine with strychnine, that can't be good for you. Some of the worst things may never have been developed, had the more basic things been more easily available. Meth likely wouldn't have been developed to get around the illegality of cocaine and morphine. Same with crack. Then you get into things like bath salts and people eating each others' faces.

 

[cobber]

Imagine for a moment that we stopped throwing billions at incarcerating or finding ways to catch our citizens (and making HUGE profits off of it i.e. for-profit prisons) and instead threw that money at HELPING them instead of making them unemployable drains on society (repeat offenders or unable to find work that pays a living wage). I know, it's a stretch around here.. helping those that can't or won't help themselves is strictly verboten... but the end result is one less thing our country isn't Number 1 at number of incarcerated people

Imagine? Cue John Lennon...

Feel free to throw your money at anything you want to. As for me, if we finally get out of the drug war, I'm not voluntarily enlisting my tax dollars in the "Rehab War". And no, I'm not interested in helping those who won't help themselves. As for those who can't? Still not interested in my tax dollars going into that rathole.

Plenty of people who are criminals now will still be criminals even without drugs. In the past folks used to blame the Devil. Now it's the drugs. More self-control and respect for others might help, but not in the current climate of participation trophies...

 

[zippy23]

I'm wondering how many people understand one part of drugs being illegal. It destroys communities. I've yet to have anyone tell me how legalizing meth and bringing meth houses into your neighborhood is something you want. You do not want people addicted to meth, making it in their house next door, and blowing themselves and you up. you do not want unemployed, addicted wackos running around your neighborhood at 3 a.m. stealing stuff from you to pay your neighbor for such a destructive and nasty drug. Its about removing those people from your communities. Just watch an episode of cops, and watch them go into trailer parks riddledd with drugs, the people are shooting each other, beating each up, stealing, all this bad stuff because of these drugs. If you want to legalize weed, go for it, i've heard all arguments for and against and its clear, its less dangerous than alcohol. Go for it. But meth, crack, heroine?? these people commit all kinds of other crimes to get their fix. They dont contribute to society, they only hurt. Realistically if you talk about legalizing all drugs, you cant then say that we should just use tax money to pay for rehab.

If you use the argument that its someone elses body and they can poison it if they want......then fine. BUT WHY MUST MY TAX MONEY PAY FOR THEIR REHAB BASED ON WHAT THEY DID TO THEIR BODY?? Then you must not allow a single penny to go to them to help them because of their decision. They must reap what they sow. If they kill themselves because of addiction, its not your place to stop them from using and rehab them right? uh oh........that makes just too much sense right? because a gov't program war on drugs then becomes a gov't program rehab the masses and grow gov't. come on n

And then we must address prescription pill addiction. Some of these are so destructive and it'll be ok to go around selling this stuff to people? Especially kids...who already have a huge problem today with prescription pills, we should make it easier to access it? sorry, not buying it.

 

[phylodog]

I'm wondering how many people understand one part of drugs being illegal. It destroys communities. I've yet to have anyone tell me how legalizing meth and bringing meth houses into your neighborhood is something you want. You do not want people addicted to meth, making it in their house next door, and blowing themselves and you up. you do not want unemployed, addicted wackos running around your neighborhood at 3 a.m. stealing stuff from you to pay your neighbor for such a destructive and nasty drug. Its about removing those people from your communities. Just watch an episode of cops, and watch them go into trailer parks riddledd with drugs, the people are shooting each other, beating each up, stealing, all this bad stuff because of these drugs. If you want to legalize weed, go for it, i've heard all arguments for and against and its clear, its less dangerous than alcohol. Go for it. But meth, crack, heroine?? these people commit all kinds of other crimes to get their fix. They dont contribute to society, they only hurt.

The issue as I see it is that you just described the way things are now and the way they have been for some time. Prohibition doesn't work. We're far worse off as a nation than we were before the war on drugs came about. It has failed miserably and cost the citizens of this country trillions of dollars in the process.

I don't know what the answer is, I wish I did. I do know that the current setup does not work. I'm with you on not spending a dime on rehabilitating those who choose to destroy their lives through drug use.

 

[Twangbanger]

One of the interesting parlor games of the last 10 years, has been watching social science types try to explain the approx. 50% reduction in violent crime since the 1990s. They would like to attribute it to things like the reduction in use of lead-based paint (?).

I don't write articles for The Atlantic, but, it seems to me that mass-incarceration is working pretty. damn. well. The demographic of the people doing time for drugs, and that of the ones doing most of the killing in society, seems to correlate to a "T."

Mr. Obvious says...there's your reduction in violent crime, right there.

 

[Jludo]

Its like most social programs we like to gripe about, ideally they'd be gone but they are here and the conversation should be pragmatic. We're spending money on this drug war that would be better spent on rehabilitation. Costs money to lock people up, they aren't paying taxes, they aren't supporting their families etc. In a perfect world we don't support their rehab or anything. However of the realities we get to pick from rehab is the preferred option.

 

[Hop]

But how would the CIA get their money?

 

[phylodog]

Its like most social programs we like to gripe about, ideally they'd be gone but they are here and the conversation should be pragmatic. We're spending money on this drug war that would be better spent on rehabilitation. Costs money to lock people up, they aren't paying taxes, they aren't supporting their families etc. In a perfect world we don't support their rehab or anything. However of the realities we get to pick from rehab is the preferred option.

I don't find the possibility of ending the war on drugs and reducing taxes as a result to be unrealistic. If given the option of continuing as we are or legalizing and spending the same money to provide more free **** to those who refuse to earn it, I'll stick with what we've got.

No one is owed anything; not on this planet, not in this country, not in this life. I'm tired of hearing excuses as to why that isn't true when it absolutely is.

 

[Jludo]

I don't find the possibility of ending the war on drugs and reducing taxes as a result to be unrealistic. If given the option of continuing as we are or legalizing and spending the same money to provide more free **** to those who refuse to earn it, I'll stick with what we've got.

No one is owed anything; not on this planet, not in this country, not in this life. I'm tired of hearing excuses as to why that isn't true when it absolutely is.

You're preaching to the choir here on your points. What I don't get is your preference for incarceration over rehabilitation if those are the options you're left with as my libertarian party isn't winning anytime soon.