is there any way to check if a LEO is really on duty even though he is not in uniform

[jbombelli]

You have issues with people of authority dont you?

Ahhhh... I see. I'M the jerk. It's all clear to me now. I must have a problem with authority, because I don't like a-holes with badges, who show up to a non-crime and throw their weight around and try to intimidate people in order to take control of a situation that's already under control, and make "requests" disguised as barked orders. That must be it. There is no such thing as a cop on a power trip. NOPE... that has NEVER happened.

 

[Denny347]

This is not unusual in Indy. They are usually anti-abortion protesters. There are a few clinics that I work around so I know what to expect. They are well versed in the law usually and expect to be filmed while dealing with them. They know to stay on the sidewalks and off the clinic's property. I rarely have any problems with them. It is the "new" protesters that don't know the law that will usually do something that requires my involvement. Rarely do I need to even get out of the car. As long as they are not in the street, not on private property without permission, and not disturbing the surrounding neighbors...all is good. If an officer wants to know what they are up to or what there purpose is, nothing says we cannot strike up a conversation with them. They are under no obligation to talk to me but if they are protesting something I am sure they are more than willing to tell you all about it. I doubt most of the protesters are wanted for anything so why would I run their ID's. Not unless they have committed an infraction in front of me or otherwise broken some law. If they are walking, they need to make sure they follow pedestrian laws or risk tickets.

 

[level.eleven]

Are you sh*tting me???
You take the crap that MSNBC spews out as fact???
If that's where you get your news it's no wonder you don't know jack sh*t about Police work.
Mike

This shows me you didn't read the article. It's from the AP and sites stats provided by the NYPD. Are you implying the NYPD is not telling the truth? I don't understand your response.

Would you believe the NYPD statistics if Fox News presented them?

 

[IndyMonkey]

Ahhhh... I see. I'M the jerk. It's all clear to me now. I must have a problem with authority, because I don't like a-holes with badges. That must be it. There is no such thing as a cop on a power trip. NOPE... that has NEVER happened.

I just asked a question. Sometimes it interest me what has happened in peoples life that makes them feel a certain way about subjects.

I can say that I have never felt violated by a police officer, or witnessed one violating someone else's rights.

 

[jbombelli]

You didn't see them "give up" and leave in all cases. Which is why I said in some cases in my earlier post. Instead, we just have edited video of different parts of the confrontation. The missing parts could have included things the video maker did not want his audience to view (Like obeying the officer, recieving a ticket, waiting to be ran for warrants, or ordered to cease by a supervisor on duty.) as it would not have made for good shock value. Not saying the above is what happened. I just don't like video's that contest a public figures job without both sides of the story. It just becomes hype without both sides or at the least, unedited tape.

It also might have just been more of the same and they didn't feel they needed 5000 hours of the same thing to prove their point.

 

[level.eleven]

so should the cops sit in an office and only come out where they get a call from your mom after she has been assaulted?

Should they randomly ID people walking down the street?

 

[level.eleven]

This is not unusual in Indy. They are usually anti-abortion protesters. There are a few clinics that I work around so I know what to expect. They are well versed in the law usually and expect to be filmed while dealing with them. They know to stay on the sidewalks and off the clinic's property. I rarely have any problems with them. It is the "new" protesters that don't know the law that will usually do something that requires my involvement. Rarely do I need to even get out of the car. As long as they are not in the street, not on private property without permission, and not disturbing the surrounding neighbors...all is good. If an officer wants to know what they are up to or what there purpose is, nothing says we cannot strike up a conversation with them. They are under no obligation to talk to me but if they are protesting something I am sure they are more than willing to tell you all about it. I doubt most of the protesters are wanted for anything so why would I run their ID's. Not unless they have committed an infraction in front of me or otherwise broken some law. If they are walking, they need to make sure they follow pedestrian laws or risk tickets.

Fair.

You should run for Sheriff.

I drive by a PP everyday on my way to work. I'll give them this, they are dedicated and organized.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Should they randomly ID people walking down the street?

where do they do that at?

Or Yes, in Arizona.

 

[downzero]

You have issues with people of authority dont you?

This may be a tangent, but a police officer is not an authority figure. They are public servants and they work for us, not the other way around.

In order to protect our rights, they are given limited powers to demand certain things from citizens under certain conditions. The presumption is, always, unless they have specific facts that they can articulate, they do not have any power to detain us and we are free to leave.

They can bark demands at us all we want, but one think they cannot do is prohibit us from leaving the situation without suspicion that a crime is, has, or is about to happen. The Constitution protects us from submitting to suspicionless stops for that reason.

The most important phrase you will ever learn is, "Officer, am I being detained or am I free to go now?" Any cop's 4th amendment buzzer should go off when he hears that.

 

[UncleMike]

This shows me you didn't read the article. It's from the AP and sites stats provided by the NYPD. Are you implying the NYPD is not telling the truth? I don't understand your response.

Would you believe the NYPD statistics if Fox News presented them?

Once again you're wrong!!
I read the entire article and it is the typical MSNBC load of left wing crap that they spew every day.
If you rely on that bunch of idiots to form your opinions of the World you haven't a chance in Hell of getting it right.
They have a single agenda and that is to demonize EVERYONE, especially Conservative Law Enforcement, who doesn't tow their left wing Socialist line.
I've also watched the original tape in question and there is no doubt that it has been edited to make it appear that the Officers were being jerks.
You'd be wise if you would believe half of what you see, and nothing of what you hear.
Mike

 

[IndyMonkey]

This may be a tangent, but a police officer is not an authority figure. They are public servants and they work for us, not the other way around.

In order to protect our rights, they are given limited powers to demand certain things from citizens under certain conditions. The presumption is, always, unless they have specific facts that they can articulate, they do not have any power to detain us and we are free to leave.

They can bark demands at us all we want, but one think they cannot do is prohibit us from leaving the situation without suspicion that a crime is, has, or is about to happen. The Constitution protects us from submitting to suspicionless stops for that reason.

The most important phrase you will ever learn is, "Officer, am I being detained or am I free to go now?" Any cop's 4th amendment buzzer should go off when he hears that.

I understand that 100%.

But the people that I have known that have issues with the police have had several run ins with them and they were on the wrong side of the law.

 

[jbombelli]

I just asked a question. Sometimes it interest me what has happened in peoples life that makes them feel a certain way about subjects.

I can say that I have never felt violated by a police officer, or witnessed one violating someone else's rights.

Well, all I can say to that is LUCKY YOU.

And let it be known, I don't have an issue with all cops. Just a-holes with badges.

You're lucky you've never been arrested on trumped up crap after cooperating with a cop having a bad day.



Let me tell you what happened to me when I cooperated once upon a time, about 21 years ago.

I was pulled over after leaving a bar. I was there for a pool tournament, and I hadn't been drinking, and passed the FSTs. The officer asked if I had any guns, drugs or atomic bombs in my car. Keep in mind, this was in California. I said no. He asked if I minded if he take a quick look. I had nothing to hide, so I said, "sure, go ahead." When he got to my trunk, he found my toolbox with a bunch of tools in it. I had filed one of my screwdrivers down to use as a valve cover gasket scraper. It worked really well for that. Without a single question, he arrested me for "possession of burglary tools." I was shocked and amazed. I went to jail. I sat there overnight until my dad was able to bail me out.

I showed up for my court date, intending to plead not guilty, only to find out that they withdrew the charge. I thought... Sweet. I'm done with this stupid BS. So I went back to the police station to retrieve my tools, which they had confiscated. They refused to return them to me without an order from a judge. So I went back to court, and put myself on the afternoon docket.

The judge was pissed at me for wasting his time, and told me he couldn't release my property because it wasn't seized pursuant to a search warrant. So I went back to the police station. This time they told me they wouldn't release them because they MIGHT decide to charge me some day.

So I called a lawyer friend of my dad (the guy who instructed me to plead not guilty, but couldn't make it in to court that day due to another trial he had to go to). After a whole truckload of phone calls and letters, they finally released my tools. I went to pick them up, and half of them were missing.

Fast forward 10 years. I'd moved here to Indiana, and got a job as a securities broker. The firm ran my background check, and guess what shows up? An arrest 10 years prior for "possession of burglary tools." Now... have fun getting a job as a broker with something involving the world "burglary" on your background check.

I had to fly out to California, on my own dime, to obtain paperwork showing the disposition of that case. I went to the courthouse, and they didn't have anything. They sent me to the police station. I went to the police station, and they didn't have anything, and sent me back to the courthouse, who then sent me to the SHERIFF'S station. Now... the sheriff's station was in the same building as the police station, shared the same front desk, and had the same person standing there when I got there. They told me I had to go to the OTHER sheriff's station, the main one in the county seat. By now it was the end of the day and I was going to miss my flight back in the morning because this wasn't taken care of.

Next day.

When I got to the other sheriff's station, I had to wait in line for about 3 hours while people registered their assault weapons. When I finally got up to the desk and explained what I needed, with the file number, etc., they said they didn't have anything after not even checking. So I called my lawyer right in front of the girl, and asked him to refer me to somebody good in Calif. because I was going to sue the Ventura County Sheriff's department for ruining my career by putting bogus crap on my record and then refusing to provide any documents showing it was bogus. 30 seconds later, the girl somehow miraculously produced the documents I needed. Amazing. And after all that, being a day late back to the job got me a written warning and probationary status. One more unapproved absence and I was out. There's nothing like starting a job with things like that in your personnel file.

This arrest cost me a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of aggravation, and almost cost me my career. I beat the charge, but I almost lost everything later on.

Long story short... I don't ever answer questions, I don't ever consent to searches. Even if I've got nothing to hide. You have nothing to gain by cooperating, and everything to lose. I learned this the hard way. All it takes is one a-hole with a badge, and your life could very well be ruined.

I read that statute later, that I was initially charged under, and came to find out the officer, in order to charge me with it, had to have specific knowledge of a crime that I had either committed, or was about to commit, using those specific tools. They dropped the charge because he didn't have that knowledge. But he arrested me anyway. This is what makes me absolutely detest when officers blather on about the law when they're wrong, and why I don't take part in their fishing expedition game of 20 questions.


So you'll have to forgive me if I don't trust cops. That was my first experience with them, and it's colored me ever since.

 

[downzero]

I understand that 100%.

But the people that I have known that have issues with the police have had several run ins with them and they were on the wrong side of the law.

Well, as I have attempted to articulate it here, I have several issues with police conduct and I've never been arrested.

My ex-girlfriend's father was a police officer. His attitude towards the citizens he served was and remains utterly despicable. I'm glad he's no longer on the street if there's any truth to the stories he told.

 

[downzero]

Well, all I can say to that is LUCKY YOU.

Absolutely. Because even when they do, the presumption always seems to be in favor of government power--not liberty.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Well, all I can say to that is LUCKY YOU.

Not really luck, I think it had to do with me not putting myself in a questionable situation and when I do have contact I treat them with the same respect that I would want.

If that doesnt help, we have great lawyers like Kirkman to stand with us in court.

Then again, I still believe that most men are good, and the world can be a happy place.

 

[MrsGungho]

Not really luck, I think it had to do with me not putting myself in a questionable situation and when I do have contact I treat them with the same respect that I would want.

If that doesnt help, we have great lawyers like Kirkman to stand with us in court.

Then again, I still believe that most men are good, and the world can be a happy place.

can I share those rose colored glasses?

 

[phylodog]

Absolutely. Because even when they do, the presumption always seems to be in favor of government power--not liberty.

Haven't spent much time in a criminal courtroom yet have you?

The only place that is true is here in the interweb la-la dreamworldland.

 

[IndyMonkey]

can I share those rose colored glasses?

ANything for you, the view is great.

 

[jbombelli]

Not really luck, I think it had to do with me not putting myself in a questionable situation and when I do have contact I treat them with the same respect that I would want.

If that doesnt help, we have great lawyers like Kirkman to stand with us in court.

Then again, I still believe that most men are good, and the world can be a happy place.

No. Really. Go back up and read my post again. I edited in a short story of what I went through after being a nice guy and cooperating, and what that got me.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Haven't spent much time in a criminal courtroom yet have you?

The only place that is true is here in the interweb la-la dreamworldland.

EIther that or he went to court with out a lawyer.