is there any way to check if a LEO is really on duty even though he is not in uniform

[level.eleven]

Once again you're wrong!!
I read the entire article and it is the typical MSNBC load of left wing crap that they spew every day.
If you rely on that bunch of idiots to form your opinions of the World you haven't a chance in Hell of getting it right.
They have a single agenda and that is to demonize EVERYONE, especially Conservative Law Enforcement, who doesn't tow their left wing Socialist line.
I've also watched the original tape in question and there is no doubt that it has been edited to make it appear that the Officers were being jerks.
You'd be wise if you would believe half of what you see, and nothing of what you hear.
Mike

Can you refute the NYPD data on the increase in stop and frisks? Is the NYPD not telling the truth? Again, its easy to attack the source if it differs from your political agenda. These are stats compiled by CompStat.

Look, I understand you were an enforcer at some point in your life. But, how can really deny that these stop and frisks, CompStat, and the precinct tapes are complete travesties?

Have you heard the precinct tapes? Were you ever pressured to issue 30 citations and make 1 arrest per week or you would be fired?

Also, I find it interesting that you not only said, but bolded, Conservative Law Enforcement. Law enforcement isn't conservative. Law enforcement isn't liberal. Its the law. Interesting peek into a psyche. Do you think law enforcement is conservative vs. liberal, or more generically, an ideological battle? You also mentioned socialism, an economic system.

 

[UncleMike]

Not really luck, I think it had to do with me not putting myself in a questionable situation and when I do have contact I treat them with the same respect that I would want.

If that doesnt help, we have great lawyers like Kirkman to stand with us in court.

Then again, I still believe that most men are good, and the world can be a happy place.

People who don't put themselves in questionable situations generally see the Police for what they are.
Protectors of the Public Safety!!
Those who get into questionable situations generally see the Police as "The Evil Empire" and have no chance of ever realizing the truth because they are blinded by prejudice.
I've spent over thirty eight years arguing with the "Anti Police Faction".
It gets to be old after a while because they don't want to be confused by the facts.
Mike

 

[downzero]

Haven't spent much time in a criminal courtroom yet have you?

The only place that is true is here in the interweb la-la dreamworldland.

As is real obvious from the post about 5 up from mine, by then, the damage is done. Having an arrest record is enough to cause a lot of hassle for you, and having a bunch of bogus charges to have dismissed is already going to be expensive (lawyers aren't cheap; good lawyers are definitely not cheap).

Furthermore, the fourth amendment, while it prohibits this sort of abusive behavior, doesn't provide a remedy. Judges invented one about 50 years ago--the exclusionary rule--but its use, as you probably already know, is very narrow.

Once again, presumption of government power over liberty wins most of the time, although we're taking it back little by little.

Oh, btw...the United States has more people in prison, per capita, than any other nation on earth...by FAR. If criminal courts were so slanted towards criminals as you say, this would be impossible.

People do more time for the same crimes here than anywhere else in the world, pretty much. We also have bigger budgets for enforcement, and so people get caught for stuff that would otherwise be overlooked.

Even worse than that, many do not ever do a day of time in jail, but they sure as hell do pay huge fines and plead guilty, because they do not have effective representation.

 

[level.eleven]

I understand that 100%.

But the people that I have known that have issues with the police have had several run ins with them and they were on the wrong side of the law.

On a "professional" level, I have only dealt with the enforcers on 2 occasions.

1) Me (10) and my friends were swimming in the town creek after a flood. Population: 2200. Except when church camp was in and then it would spike to 2500. We were just jacking around and I ran when the enforcer showed up. Peddled my arse off to get home and jump in the tub. Got out of the tub and an enforcer was in our driveway talking to my parents. You know what happened next.

2) I was extorted by my local police chief. You see, I wanted to own a certain piece of property that could be used to defend my wife and kids. This chief wouldn't let me have it until i forked over $100 to his syndicate. The only thing I got in return was a crappy pink copy that is barely legible.

You said you were interested in personal stories and how people arrive at opinions that they hold. I have told my story here before. It basically was loosing my best friend to cop culture and seeing the transformation of his character.

 

[IndyMonkey]

On a "professional" level, I have only dealt with the enforcers on 2 occasions.

1) Me (10) and my friends were swimming in the town creek after a flood. Population: 2200. Except when church camp was in and then it would spike to 2500. We were just jacking around and I ran when the enforcer showed up. Peddled my arse off to get home and jump in the tub. Got out of the tub and an enforcer was in our driveway talking to my parents. You know what happened next.

2) I was extorted by my local police chief. You see, I wanted to own a certain piece of property that could be used to defend my wife and kids. This chief wouldn't let me have it until i forked over $100 to his syndicate. The only thing I got in return was a crappy pink copy that is barely legible.

You said you were interested in personal stories and how people arrive at opinions that they hold. I have told my story here before. It basically was loosing my best friend to cop culture and seeing the transformation of his character.

Thanks for sharing.

so in number one, did you parents spank you when the cop left?

Or, did you all laugh when they left.

 

[UncleMike]

Can you refute the NYPD data on the increase in stop and frisks? Is the NYPD not telling the truth? Again, its easy to attack the source if it differs from your political agenda. These are stats compiled by CompStat.

Look, I understand you were an enforcer at some point in your life. But, how can really deny that these stop and frisks, CompStat, and the precinct tapes are complete travesties?

Have you heard the precinct tapes? Were you ever pressured to issue 30 citations and make 1 arrest per week or you would be fired?

Also, I find it interesting that you not only said, but bolded, Conservative Law Enforcement. Law enforcement isn't conservative. Law enforcement isn't liberal. Its the law. Interesting peek into a psyche. Do you think law enforcement is conservative vs. liberal, or more generically, an ideological battle? You also mentioned socialism, an economic system.

You're damn right I can dispute that data.
NYPD data is not released for statistical compilation until it has been cleared by the Mayor of that stink hole.
The stats mentioned were intended to garner the MINORITY vote in NY.
Nothing more!
Nothing less!
I've been in the "sausage grinder" of politics.
EVERYTHING is slanted the way of whomever happens to be in power at the moment.
Truth takes a back seat to political gain.
And.
The reason that I bolded "Conservative Law Enforcement" is that, of the hundreds of LEO's that I've worked with, over nearly four decades, NOT A SINGLE ONE WAS A FRIGGIN LIBERAL!!!
You'd have as much chance finding a Liberal street Officer as you would finding a black man in the KKK.
Mike

 

[phylodog]

People do more time for the same crimes here than anywhere else in the world, pretty much. We also have bigger budgets for enforcement, and so people get caught for stuff that would otherwise be overlooked.

Sounds to me like the result of well trained and hard working law enforcement officers.

Even worse than that, many do not ever do a day of time in jail, but they sure as hell do pay huge fines and plead guilty, because they do not have effective representation.

Here is where you and I will forever disagree, to the core of our being. You see someone who gets arrested, convicted and sentenced for a crime they committed as some kind of victim. I see them as someone who violated the law and must lie in the bed they made for themselves.

There are too many in your chosen profession who believe that if they are successful and get their guilty client acquitted then that means their client was never guilty at all. Perhaps one day you will get to look into the eyes of a mother who's child your client murdered or raped after you have succeeded in getting them off the hook. Perhaps that day will prove more enlightening than what you're being taught in law school.

 

[level.eleven]

My dad drove a fork lift and my mom was literally, the lunch lady, at school.

As they used to say in sports highlights, "You make the call."

I will also include that I have never been issued a traffic code violation. I have been driving over 20 years. I was given the designation "grandpa" at a very early age. I am willing to have any of you enforcers look me up too!

 

[IndyMonkey]

No. Really. Go back up and read my post again. I edited in a short story of what I went through after being a nice guy and cooperating, and what that got me.

I have read your story somewhere before. Sounds like they made a clerical error some where along the line.

 

[UncleMike]

There are too many in your chosen profession who believe that if they are successful and get their guilty client acquitted then that means their client was never guilty at all. Perhaps one day you will get to look into the eyes of a mother who's child your client murdered or raped after you have succeeded in getting them off the hook. Perhaps that day will prove more enlightening than what you're being taught in law school.

Don't count on that.
The first thing that they do when you enter Law School is rip your heart out and suck out half of your brain.
Mike

 

[level.eleven]

There are too many in your chosen profession who believe that if they are successful and get their guilty client acquitted then that means their client was never guilty at all. Perhaps one day you will get to look into the eyes of a mother who's child your client murdered or raped after you have succeeded in getting them off the hook. Perhaps that day will prove more enlightening than what you're being taught in law school.

Uh, if a jury says not guilty...you are not guilty.

What you described is a failure of the justice system. If someone is guilty, the jury returns guilty. If they are innocent, they return innocent. This is merely a play to emotion and quite shallow. What would you change about our justice system? Should the jury not be allowed to issue a verdict in a rape or murder case?

It sounds as if you simply don't like lawyers or don't believe in our justice system. Are we throwing out that whole jury of your peers thing?

 

[level.eleven]

Don't count on that.
The first thing that they do when you enter Law School is rip your heart out and suck out half of your brain.
Mike

Come on Mike, that's not nice. I'm sure you LOVE the lawyer that is defending you in that wrongful arrest case.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Come on Mike, that's not nice. I'm sure you LOVE the lawyer that is defending you in that wrongful arrest case.

Lawyers are a necessity to navigate in a favorable fashion through the court system of the US.

 

[level.eleven]

Lawyers are a necessity to navigate in a favorable fashion through the court system of the US.

Exactly. Because the deck is stacked against you and I because we don't speak Latin, understand legalese, we use common sense, and don't have buddies that craft laws to protect our trade.

See folks. Common ground does exist!

This has been kind of fun tonight.

 

[phylodog]

Uh, if a jury says not guilty...you are not guilty.

Is that right? Really? So because a murderer is not convicted of his crime, maybe never caught then he is innocent?

What you described is a failure of the justice system. If someone is guilty, the jury returns guilty. If they are innocent, they return innocent. This is merely a play to emotion and quite shallow. What would you change about our justice system? Should the jury not be allowed to issue a verdict in a rape or murder case?

If our justice system were based on truth I wouldn't have a problem with it. Perhaps you have more experience in our system of justice than I do but in my 12 years I have yet to be involved in a case where an innocent person was put on trial. I've seen many who weren't convicted as a direct result of the defense attorneys pulling on the heart strings of the jurors and convincing them that they shouldn't convict their client because he had a rough childhood, his mommy didn't kiss him or the police officer failed to cross a T on the arrest slip. Perhaps in your world that sits well but it doesn't in mine. Maybe if it happened to a drunk driver who smashed your car or a burglar who stole all of your guns you'd feel differently.

I have zero problems with an innocent person being set free. The crap you see on television has nothing to do with what happens in courtrooms in the real world.

It sounds as if you simply don't like lawyers or don't believe in our justice system. Are we throwing out that whole jury of your peers thing?

You're partially correct. In general I don't like defense attorneys with few exceptions and believe that most willingly sell their soul for the almighty dollar. Most public defenders are so liberal they make Obama look like Rush Limbaugh.

I do believe in our justice system as it was intended. Unfortunately, like every aspect of the laws of our land it has been perverted for the past couple hundred years, primarily by lawyers and politicians who bend it to fit their needs.


To put it plainly, 99% of the time the truth wins convictions for the prosecution while deception wins acquittals for the defense.

 

[UncleMike]

Come on Mike, that's not nice. I'm sure you LOVE the lawyer that is defending you in that wrongful arrest case.

I never made a "wrongful arrest".
That was frowned upon by my Superiors.
Mike

 

[jbombelli]

I have read your story somewhere before. Sounds like they made a clerical error some where along the line.

You read it here on INGO. I posted it a few months ago.

It wasn't a clerical error. It was an a-hole with a badge who started out in a confrontational way, and misapplied the law, and giving me an arrest record after I did my best to be polite and respectful, and cooperate with his requests.

Just because YOU have never had a bad experience doesn't mean it never happens.

I find the statements some people make, that everyone who distrusts cops is a criminal of some sort, to be extremely insulting, shortsighted and ignorant of the truth. With a 10 minute google search I bet I could find 1000 different stories of bad cops.

 

[IndyMonkey]

You read it here on INGO. I posted it a few months ago.

It wasn't a clerical error. It was an a-hole with a badge who started out in a confrontational way, and misapplied the law, and giving me an arrest record after I did my best to be polite and respectful, and cooperate with his requests.

Just because YOU have never had a bad experience doesn't mean it never happens.

I find the statements some people make, that everyone who distrusts cops is a criminal of some sort, to be extremely insulting, shortsighted and ignorant of the truth. With a 10 minute google search I bet I could find 1000 different stories of bad cops.

Is it the cops choice what to charge or the prosecutor? I honestly dont know know how this works.

 

[downzero]

Uh, if a jury says not guilty...you are not guilty.

What you described is a failure of the justice system. If someone is guilty, the jury returns guilty. If they are innocent, they return innocent. This is merely a play to emotion and quite shallow. What would you change about our justice system? Should the jury not be allowed to issue a verdict in a rape or murder case?

It sounds as if you simply don't like lawyers or don't believe in our justice system. Are we throwing out that whole jury of your peers thing?

I couldn't agree more. I'd rather a thousand murderers and rapists walk free than just one innocent man have to spend any unnecessary time behind bars.

It seems to me that he not only dislikes lawyers and our system, but doesn't believe in the presumption of innocence, either.

And herein lies most of the problem. Those tasked with enforcing the law seem to forget that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt--not the other way around.

 

[patton487]

People who don't put themselves in questionable situations generally see the Police for what they are.
Protectors of the Public Safety!!
Those who get into questionable situations generally see the Police as "The Evil Empire" and have no chance of ever realizing the truth because they are blinded by prejudice.
I've spent over thirty eight years arguing with the "Anti Police Faction".
It gets to be old after a while because they don't want to be confused by the facts.
Mike

Now that's funny!! I'll take care of my own "Safety", thanks. If I'm not breaking any laws, just stay out of my face.

I think someone is just frustrated because he's not "the man" anymore. lol