Indiana Constitutional Carry-Summer Study thread (2017)

[jamil]

1030 x 1030 ... seems like a square deal ...

Your geekitry is admirable.

 

[Fargo]

I think it depends on the points driven home.

ie, Kirk pointing out that we have a defacto constitutional carry already, sorta puts the whole debate in 'moot mode' when one thinks about it...

They can rattle off whatever the hell stats they wish... it doesn't change the fact that:
No one can ask for proof of your license to carry (unless you're suspected of a violent crime using a weapon) except the state which chooses to make you prove your innocence before issuing you your license.

There is literally NO OTHER LEGAL method to prove you should be able to carry a firearm in Indiana until AFTER it is used.

With all due respect to Kirk's opinion on what may be asked/required on a Terry stop, I don't believe it is nearly as cut and dried as this and I wouldn't be surprised if the Ct. Of Appeals allowed much greater LEO leeway than Pinner might facially suggest. I don't think it is a moot point at all.

 

[KLB]

Oh. Lawyers disagreeing. Such a surprise

 

[KellyinAvon]

Oh. Lawyers disagreeing. Such a surprise

It's boring when they agree.

 

[2A_Tom]

With all due respect to Kirk's opinion on what may be asked/required on a Terry stop, I don't believe it is nearly as cut and dried as this and I wouldn't be surprised if the Ct. Of Appeals allowed much greater LEO leeway than Pinner might facially suggest. I don't think it is a moot point at all.

Kirk did not address a Terry stop. If an officer has RAS or pc for a terry stop, the presence of a firearm is definitely with in the perview of the investigation.

Kirk stated that the MERE presence of a firearm is not sufficient for an investigatory stop.

 

[T.Lex]

It's boring when they agree.

Yes it is.

I mean.

No it isn't.

This is confusing.

 

[Mgderf]

Yes it is.

I mean.

No it isn't.

This is confusing.

I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

 

[Fargo]

Kirk did not address a Terry stop. If an officer has RAS or pc for a terry stop, the presence of a firearm is definitely with in the perview of the investigation.

Kirk stated that the MERE presence of a firearm is not sufficient for an investigatory stop.

LOL, Kirk has argued for years that mere presence of a firearm is sufficient under Indiana law, his being wrong about that was the gravy on top of the Pinner decision. Go back and read his thoughts after the Court of Appeals released it's opinion and after the Supreme Court granted transfer.

My recollection is that he did address questions about handguns within the context of Terry's stops in a thread post Pinner. Whilehe may be right about those limitations I am not 100% convinced.

 

[2A_Tom]

LOL, Kirk has argued for years that mere presence of a firearm is sufficient under Indiana law, his being wrong about that was the gravy on top of the Pinner decision. Go back and read his thoughts after the Court of Appeals released it's opinion and after the Supreme Court granted transfer.

My recollection is that he did address questions about handguns within the context of Terry's stops in a thread post Pinner. Whilehe may be right about those limitations I am not 100% convinced.

This is true, and I was one of the them that argued against him for some time.

When Pinner was before appeals, T Lex argued that It was not sufficient and I being seduced by Kirk and the overall INGO opinion that it was argued that it was. I called for Kirk to back me up... crickets.

When Pinner was decided, I having been right originally, but cowed into the wrong pen and had to pleasantly accept the courts ruling.

BUT, this thread is titled Summer Study and the statement I made concerns only his statements in said summer study.

 

[jamil]

It's boring when they agree.

It's boring when they DON'T agree.

Lawyerz is borin'.

 

[KLB]

It's boring when they DON'T agree.

Lawyerz is borin'.

 

[Fargo]

This is true, and I was one of the them that argued against him for some time.

When Pinner was before appeals, T Lex argued that It was not sufficient and I being seduced by Kirk and the overall INGO opinion that it was argued that it was. I called for Kirk to back me up... crickets.

When Pinner was decided, I having been right originally, but cowed into the wrong pen and had to pleasantly accept the courts ruling.

BUT, this thread is titled Summer Study and the statement I made concerns only his statements in said summer study.

This is his post from this thread I am referencing regarding his opinion that police officers may not ask about ltch during traffic stops, but rather must turn them into consensual encounters.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...summer-study-thread-2017-a-9.html#post7214059

He may be right but I'm far from certain.

 

[Fargo]

I wanted to confirm it was still on for tomorrow as I have a presentation put together, but looking at the agenda and looks like they are not going to allow public testimony.

https://iga.in.gov/documents/d330e3c9

Anyone know?

 

[2A_Tom]

It says at the bottom of page 1 that if you want to do a digital presentation to contact them. this would indicate to me that they were allowing testimony.

But IANAL as you know.

 

[Fargo]

It says at the bottom of page 1 that if you want to do a digital presentation to contact them. this would indicate to me that they were allowing testimony.

But IANAL as you know.

I think that is boiler plate as it is on every agenda that I've seen. It also looks like they may be allowing public testimony on other issues, but explicitly not on that one.

 

[2A_Tom]

I am sure you are right.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I wanted to confirm it was still on for tomorrow as I have a presentation put together, but looking at the agenda and looks like they are not going to allow public testimony.

https://iga.in.gov/documents/d330e3c9

Anyone know?

The agenda looks just like it did on 7 Sept when everyone who filled out the paper testified. I'll be there tomorrow, look forward to meeting you Fargo. I'm the 50-ish white male with a goatee and a distinguished amount of grey hair (Ok, that doesn't narrow it down much here at INGO.)

This Friday: Letters to House Speaker Bosma supporting ConC and stamped envelopes available at the INGO Booth at the 1500.

 

[KellyinAvon]

WTTV 4 just ran a quick story on ConC. Of course the only person interviewed was the anti-2A IU professor Jody Mediera Good news for her classes, they'll have a graduate assistant teaching today.

 

[historian]

Good luck down there!

 

[KellyinAvon]

Me, Guy, Fargo, Chris from NRA are here. Any other INGOers?