Indiana Constitutional Carry 2017

[chipbennett]

Yep. See Bill's comments above. There was enough concern that it was better to table the bill for now rather than have it be voted down and done with. Like I said, being there was a real eye-opener. Getting to have some real quality time with Rep. Smaltz would, I think, have made a difference in your opinion as well.

With Republicans holding a majority in the committee, how would that be a possibility?

If there are Republicans who would have voted against the bill in committee, name them, so that we can work to replace them.

 

[Spear Dane]

So...it's dead?

 

[ATM]

So...it's dead?

The American experiment in self-governance? Pretty much.

Now we mostly just play politics to decide who gets what when.

 

[Jeepster48439]

So...it's dead?

Constitutional Carry or DV Victim Carry w/o LTCH?

 

[Spear Dane]

Constitutional Carry.

And has there been ANY evidence of NRA or GoA going to bat for this here?

 

[cbhausen]

Constitutional Carry or DV Victim Carry w/o LTCH?

Liberty itself, on life support.

 

[AngryRooster]

It's wry sad that we have to convince our representatives to vote our rights back to us. These are supposedly Smart people however they cannot understand or agree on one simple phrase "shall not be infridged". And haveing to pay big brother to exercise a right is in fact infringement.
Lady liberty is the one crying. Indiana says they want to lead the way however we will be one of the last states to pass constitutional carry.

Mine thing for the future (because I'm sure once again we will be beaten down by our elected officials, the protectors of freedom lol)
is we should move this thread to a more visible spot on ingo. Or maybe several that get the most traffic. Lots of people don't read these sections.
Also next year maybe we can rent a booth at the gun shows and get people on the spot to fill out a postage paid envelope to their reps. People with laptops or phones who can also search for who their reps are and hand out phone numbers or even let them make calls right there with prepaid phones or whatever. We have to get people to follow through on the spot or most simply won't do ****. We need warm bodies plain and simple. I hope for the next 4 years the gun community doesn't waste the current momentum we have and just feel comfortable and sit on their fat asses. Because we will lose rights if they do.
im willing to put money into this. I'm willing to put time into this. Let's do it. Let's shine the light on the public servants who can't read the constitution and listen to the mobs rather than the law. It's time to be a mob I guess. Let's play their game. Who can cry on command? I'm crying because we are being oppressed. We need women, we need all races, all walks of life. Because our strategy hasn't worked for years. Hell I don't think there has been any strategy other than put hope into a fart in the wind that people will follow through. They don't. So we need to be Sheppards and direct the sheep. Let them think they are in charge but we will be the persistent voice in their ear. The ones handing them paper and pen or a phone and saying here do this now. Call them out on the carpet and make them prove they are worthy citizen gun owners.
i think we had more support for this bill last session rather than this one.

we need to coordinate with good reps like Lucas and smaltz (thanks bill for sharing his stance) and Eberhart ect, that have our backs (the best interest of the constitution before any other). Next session let's get this **** done.

All of it sounds good. It will be a long process. I like the idea of the phones and postage paid letters. A booth set up at various shows, maybe some matches. I don't know how much $$ I can throw at it this year, but I know I will have time available.

Is writing and calling enough? If the other side is louder, how do we get louder? How do we counter the fear inducing naysayers? It seems the Fudds are a willing ear to hear the fear. How do we reach them?

I don't know how it works, but would it be possible to set up a go fund me page to buy some air time for a 30 second commercial on Fox 59? How about local radio? Half page newspaper ad?

I took a relative to our pistol & rifle club last night to get him signed up. We stayed for the meeting so he could see how things worked a little bit. Everything that was discussed was club business, nothing else. I can discuss things with the board and see what their thoughts are. Maybe see if they would send emails out to the membership bringing it to their attention. If anyone else who is more knowledgeable would like to speak then I'm sure it can be arraigned.

 

[Jeepster48439]

Constitutional Carry.

Yesterday's hearings weren't about Constitutional Carry. It has not even been scheduled for a hearing yet this session. Given the way the 3 gun bills went yesterday, the likelihood that CC will be given a hearing is getting pretty slim. JMO.

Doing a search, I can't find where any of the national gun rights organizations even have an online petition on this. Maybe my Google-fu is not working today or something. I find it hard to believe. Found one for Michigan and Illinois but not Indiana.

 

[Trigger Time]

All of it sounds good. It will be a long process. I like the idea of the phones and postage paid letters. A booth set up at various shows, maybe some matches. I don't know how much $$ I can throw at it this year, but I know I will have time available.



I don't know how it works, but would it be possible to set up a go fund me page to buy some air time for a 30 second commercial on Fox 59? How about local radio? Half page newspaper ad?

I took a relative to our pistol & rifle club last night to get him signed up. We stayed for the meeting so he could see how things worked a little bit. Everything that was discussed was club business, nothing else. I can discuss things with the board and see what their thoughts are. Maybe see if they would send emails out to the membership bringing it to their attention. If anyone else who is more knowledgeable would like to speak then I'm sure it can be arraigned.

i don't think raising the money would be the hard part. The matches is a good idea too.

 

[Bill of Rights]

It's wry sad that we have to convince our representatives to vote our rights back to us. These are supposedly Smart people however they cannot understand or agree on one simple phrase "shall not be infridged". And haveing to pay big brother to exercise a right is in fact infringement.
Lady liberty is the one crying. Indiana says they want to lead the way however we will be one of the last states to pass constitutional carry.

Mine thing for the future (because I'm sure once again we will be beaten down by our elected officials, the protectors of freedom lol)
is we should move this thread to a more visible spot on ingo. Or maybe several that get the most traffic. Lots of people don't read these sections.
Also next year maybe we can rent a booth at the gun shows and get people on the spot to fill out a postage paid envelope to their reps. People with laptops or phones who can also search for who their reps are and hand out phone numbers or even let them make calls right there with prepaid phones or whatever. We have to get people to follow through on the spot or most simply won't do ****. We need warm bodies plain and simple. I hope for the next 4 years the gun community doesn't waste the current momentum we have and just feel comfortable and sit on their fat asses. Because we will lose rights if they do.
im willing to put money into this. I'm willing to put time into this. Let's do it. Let's shine the light on the public servants who can't read the constitution and listen to the mobs rather than the law. It's time to be a mob I guess. Let's play their game. Who can cry on command? I'm crying because we are being oppressed. We need women, we need all races, all walks of life. Because our strategy hasn't worked for years. Hell I don't think there has been any strategy other than put hope into a fart in the wind that people will follow through. They don't. So we need to be Sheppards and direct the sheep. Let them think they are in charge but we will be the persistent voice in their ear. The ones handing them paper and pen or a phone and saying here do this now. Call them out on the carpet and make them prove they are worthy citizen gun owners.
i think we had more support for this bill last session rather than this one.

we need to coordinate with good reps like Lucas and smaltz (thanks bill for sharing his stance) and Eberhart ect, that have our backs (the best interest of the constitution before any other). Next session let's get this **** done.

This, the booth at each 1500 (and other gun shows, too) and the post-paid cards is probably one of the best ideas I've seen yet.

Someone needs to throw that emotional appeal back in her face, and ask her why she thinks so poorly of women as to believe that women cannot control their emotions and fears well enough to act in their own self-defense.

She addressed that herself. The women with whom she worked were not in control in the time she saw them. Of course, she didn't see them when the attacks were happening, and often, people (in general, not just women) act and react with "whatever I have to do to get through this" survival mindset at the moment, and fall apart afterward, when the incident is over. And in fairness, some just freeze in "the moment" and can't act at all, while I'm sure there are others who act, but ineffectually.

With Republicans holding a majority in the committee, how would that be a possibility?

If there are Republicans who would have voted against the bill in committee, name them, so that we can work to replace them.

Let's suppose that it passes the committee 10-2. We're saying here that two Democrats actually vote for it. It gets out on the floor of the House and maybe some of the members have been reached by the tug-at-the-heartstrings emotional appeal, the big puppy eyes, the "don't you care about the children?" stuff... and it fails. Some would say that it's better to try and fail than not to try at all, but conversely, if you DO fail, then next time you try, we see what happens: "Lucas has brought this bill to the Legislature three years running and it's never made it out of committee!" is what we see now. If it goes to the House floor, then it's, "Lucas has failed to get this measure past even one House of the Legislature; the bill failed in the House by 20 votes last year!" That's a more difficult bar to pass, and worsens our position.

So...it's dead?

It's not dead until the session is over, but at this point, I'm not enthusiastic about its passage.

Yesterday's hearings weren't about Constitutional Carry. It has not even been scheduled for a hearing yet this session. Given the way the 3 gun bills went yesterday, the likelihood that CC will be given a hearing is getting pretty slim. JMO.

Doing a search, I can't find where any of the national gun rights organizations even have an online petition on this. Maybe my Google-fu is not working today or something. I find it hard to believe. Found one for Michigan and Illinois but not Indiana.

NRA was there. They gave the first testimony on 1071. I believe I heard the NRA rep say something later about them supporting Mr. Lucas' efforts there, but that wasn't the bill being heard yesterday.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[brotherbill3]

I'm all outta rep - Spot on BoR -

I'll add - if it doesn't make it out - the way we want - then we need to get more people to pressure more other people to give it a shot.
(citizens to Legislators; Citizens to Mayors, and Councils; Citizens to Heads of LEO Depts ... etc)

I have not a single doubt if it isn't "done" and complete - Lucas WILL reintroduce it.

and Last Chairperson - he was all about alcohol sales and state income; he was not friend to firearms issues.
This chairman - he is more about these issues; but he's also a realist.

 

[ATM]

Pass it out of committee and make them vote.

Shame them for lagging behind most other states in maintaining this handgun carry prohibition.

Expose their backward thinking when held to answer for their individual votes.

It doesn't put us in a worse position, we haven't made an ounce of progress toward getting this repealed.

The more it gets ignored with no vote, the easier it is to ignore again next time without a vote.

 

[brotherbill3]

Someone asked if any of the big "gun.orgs" are doing anything.

just got this in my e-mail from GOA - for copy and paste to e-mail, etc.

Pre-written Letter for Speaker Brian Bosma


Please schedule a vote for HB 1159


Dear Speaker Bosma:


Rep. Jim Lucas has introduced HB 1159, to make Indiana a Constitutional Carry state.


If it passes, Indiana would join 12 other states in recognizing the right of law-abiding residents to carry concealed firearms without government permission.


More and more states across the country are adopting Constitutional Carry. And the safest five states in the country are Constitutional Carry states, allowing either open or concealed "permitless" carry for gun owners in those states.


This bill would make Indiana a safer, freer state, as evidenced by information provided by Gun Owners of America: Why Adopt a Constitutional Carry Law? | Fact Sheets


As a strong supporter of the Second Amendment -- and of Gun Owners of America -- I hope that you will schedule a vote for this very important legislation.


Thank you.


Sincerely,

I've already written (twice) at least ... and the number to call is at the top of the e-mail as well ...

 

[jamil]

I hear ya. This is the first time ive been able to go. It's a 2 hour drive plus the gold plated, diamond encrusted parking garage they charged me to park in--it's something I won't be able to do very often. (I'm sure there are cheaper places to park. That would help )

Sounds like we need a bus.

Sounds like we need to be organized, have a plan, have a schedule, have some real life, convincing testimony to share. And bus some 2A supporters from all over the state. I'd be willing to go if there is enough advanced notice. I couldn't make it this time, but I may have been able to go if I'd have known several weeks ago. So if this thing has to wait another year, let's be lined up and ready when it comes up again. Also, what else should gun rights advocacy groups be doing? Seems like they're best equipped to organize.

 

[brotherbill3]

Sounds like we need a bus.

Sounds like we need to be organized, have a plan, have a schedule, have some real life, convincing testimony to share. And bus some 2A supporters from all over the state. I'd be willing to go if there is enough advanced notice. I couldn't make it this time, but I may have been able to go if I'd have known several weeks ago. So if this thing has to wait another year, let's be lined up and ready when it comes up again. Also, what else should gun rights advocacy groups be doing? Seems like they're best equipped to organize.

Committee Hearings are only scheduled a few days ahead; and the need is just as much right now and right where you are.

Look to your left and right - one or both of these people isn't a gun person; has no info on firearms (except for watching crime dramas on TV)
so they buy all the propaganda and agiprop from the anti-rights crowd. This is the majority of people.

TALK TO THEM. Get them to a range.

Change the minds of your neighbors.

 

[Trigger Time]

Committee Hearings are only scheduled a few days ahead; and the need is just as much right now and right where you are.

Look to your left and right - one or both of these people isn't a gun person; has no info on firearms (except for watching crime dramas on TV)
so they buy all the propaganda and agiprop from the anti-rights crowd. This is the majority of people.

TALK TO THEM. Get them to a range.

Change the minds of your neighbors.

i turned my democrat inlaws into gun people (both carry now) and one of them voted for trump (sorry two of them voted for trump). I was banned from talkin politics because I always shut their arguments down with facts.
Believe me, it felt like the greatest accomplishment of my life!

 

[T.Lex]

It's not dead until the session is over, but at this point, I'm not enthusiastic about its passage.

Just to follow up on this point, there's a deadline of February 27th for House bills to have their 3rd reading and get sent to the Senate. Bills originating in the Senate need to have a 3rd reading to be sent to the House by February 28th.

Any bills not meeting that requirement will be dead.

 

[jamil]

Committee Hearings are only scheduled a few days ahead; and the need is just as much right now and right where you are.

Look to your left and right - one or both of these people isn't a gun person; has no info on firearms (except for watching crime dramas on TV)
so they buy all the propaganda and agiprop from the anti-rights crowd. This is the majority of people.

TALK TO THEM. Get them to a range.

Change the minds of your neighbors.

This for sure!

If gun owners want to keep their rights, part of the effort is to be a good ambassador to other people, be knowledgeable about the issues, about what are their arguments, and what is our answer. Be a gun rights apologist. Be the anti-stereotype in your circle.

I don't know if I should take credit for this, but I think my teammates I work with have a better understanding of the issues. I'd like to think I had something to do with that. I've arranged a trip to the range for a team outing. Some of them are left-leaning. Some are moderates. Maybe one on the right who is pretty pro-gun. They really enjoyed shooting. Some own guns but haven't really practiced with them.

We've talked about and debated gun rights together. When I hear nonsense on the news or social media, I talk it over with them to make sure they understand the other side. I don't think I've turned them into gun nuts like me, and i've certainly not turned them into conservatarians. But they do understand the issues better, and they understand better where the other side is coming from. I'd like to think I had something to do with that.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Sounds like we need a bus.

Sounds like we need to be organized, have a plan, have a schedule, have some real life, convincing testimony to share. And bus some 2A supporters from all over the state. I'd be willing to go if there is enough advanced notice. I couldn't make it this time, but I may have been able to go if I'd have known several weeks ago. So if this thing has to wait another year, let's be lined up and ready when it comes up again. Also, what else should gun rights advocacy groups be doing? Seems like they're best equipped to organize.

I'm not much of a community organizer. Our side generally sucks at that. But I can evangelize, one on one. Just like you described below, I can do that. I can step my game up.

This for sure!

If gun owners want to keep their rights, part of the effort is to be a good ambassador to other people, be knowledgeable about the issues, about what are their arguments, and what is our answer. Be a gun rights apologist. Be the anti-stereotype in your circle.

I don't know if I should take credit for this, but I think my teammates I work with have a better understanding of the issues. I'd like to think I had something to do with that. I've arranged a trip to the range for a team outing. Some of them are left-leaning. Some are moderates. Maybe one on the right who is pretty pro-gun. They really enjoyed shooting. Some own guns but haven't really practiced with them.

We've talked about and debated gun rights together. When I hear nonsense on the news or social media, I talk it over with them to make sure they understand the other side. I don't think I've turned them into gun nuts like me, and i've certainly not turned them into conservatarians. But they do understand the issues better, and they understand better where the other side is coming from. I'd like to think I had something to do with that.

I know you told this story before and it's good goods. To your question above, maybe an option would be to use social media with these folks to let them know they need to write and/or call to advance these laws. It's be a good reason to dust off that FB account you've ignored for too long.

 

[brotherbill3]

i turned my democrat inlaws into gun people (both carry now) and one of them voted for trump (sorry two of them voted for trump). I was banned from talkin politics because I always shut their arguments down with facts.
Believe me, it felt like the greatest accomplishment of my life!

Congrats!!
Wait you made them think!?!??! how dare you.

uhm ... I had to similar with adult daughter on issues - actual on "carrying" - she now has her LTCH. My son-in-law - already quotes "taxation is theft" over holloween candy with the grandson - ... you know how to do this then.