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Indiana Constitutional Carry 2017
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It's not even gonna make it out of committee. Cowards
I was one of the group that spoke with Rep. Smaltz and while I can't go into detail on his every word, he came across to me as genuine and genuinely in favor of Constitutional carry, about which I asked him point-blank. The support he expressed for that bill's passage can't be overstated.
I also got the impression that our opposition on that bill is more vocal than we are, generally speaking. It seemed to me that those of us willing to speak up, show up, DO something is far smaller than those of us who say on INGO that they want Constitutional carry but don't seem to want to carry water to make it happen.
I saw in that room today at least eight INGOers. I did not think to take a head count in the room. There are at least two others who were there that it would not surprise me were also members, and I'm not counting jeepster because I haven't met and could not identify him. I will not call out people by name; if they want to self-identify that they were there, that is their choice. Here's the point, though: We have over 42,000 members. We had notice late last week that this was going to happen this morning. Admittedly, this was a Tuesday morning and granted, most of us are from the side of the aisle that has to work for a living, signing the fronts rather than the backs of the checks, but we got 0.02% of our members there.
OK. Leaving that issue aside for the moment, what else can we do? Our opposition, if the impression I got was correct that they are more vocal, has set the narrative on Constitutional carry. We tend to fall into a confirmation bias here. Constitutional carry just makes sense, and how could anyone not see that? Go to your circle of people. Get the subject of Constitutional carry going as relates to the other states- Maine, Vermont, West Virginia, Mississippi, Arkansas, Kansas, Arizona, Missouri, Idaho, Wyoming, Alaska, and with the exception of the cities, Montana. Make sure people know what the result of Constitutional carry has been in those states. When the laws are relaxed and criminals have more to fear, violent crime rates decrease. This is in clear opposition to what those on the Left tell us: Today, Rep. GiaQuinta seemed amenable to most suggestions, though he had some questions. Rep. Austin similarly, despite her late arrival, only asked Rep. Lucas to talk to the school superintendents about his bill decriminalizing carry on school grounds by retired or reserve LEOs. Rep. Vanessa Summers seemed almost on the verge of "getting it" for a short bit, but then fell back on the old anti- arguments. However, Rep. Charlie Brown stated outright that he would never vote for a gun bill. He then proved it, voting against the bill that grants a LTCH to retired LEOs. Rep Brown has made clear that his mind is made up, and he does not want to be confused with silly, irrelevant things like facts. He also made a point of saying that on that committee, he was "clearly in the minority in more ways than one", being anti-gun. I cannot say what else he might have been referencing, as I can't read his mind. To me, it came across that he was making a point of noting the fact that he is one of two Black representatives. If so, it struck me odd that he played the race card in that setting, when skin color had nothing to do with any bill being presented. If I read correctly and that is what he was doing, it struck me very similar to the one speaker from the so-called anti-domestic violence group who got all choked up, talking about how she also had been a victim of some violence of that nature in the past. Oddly, her tears dried up very quickly when the conversation and the testimony were over.
This is not to minimize the issue of violence, nor any suffering she might have endured. I am sympathetic to those who face that in their lives. There has to come a point, though, that you stop sniveling about it, stop letting it define your life, and move from being a victim to being a survivor. Lest anyone think I'm "mansplaining" or "trying to define a woman's suffering for her" or any similar rot, let me clarify that the "move from victim to survivor" is not my original idea, but one explained by therapists and their group therapy members who have experienced it.
For myself, I can only point to prejudice and bullying as things to move past: I experienced both growing up. Do I allow that to forever define me as a victim, or do I consider the source, note the fact that those who did it were small-minded, unimportant people, and relegate their actions to the trash heap on which they belong? I choose the latter.
I have far digressed from the topic. We have a problem with Constitutional carry, a problem of image. People (outside of INGO) see bills to create it and get mental images of Wyatt and Doc squaring off with the Clantons at the OK corral, or Marshall Dillon standing silhouetted in the swinging doors of the Long Branch saloon. We need to change that image to the reality that people exercising their rights does not mean anarchy or lawlessness, but rather a more armed and more polite society.
To those who did come to this meeting today, thank you!
Blessings,
Bill
I also got the impression that our opposition on that bill is more vocal than we are, generally speaking. It seemed to me that those of us willing to speak up, show up, DO something is far smaller than those of us who say on INGO that they want Constitutional carry but don't seem to want to carry water to make it happen.
I saw in that room today at least eight INGOers. I did not think to take a head count in the room. There are at least two others who were there that it would not surprise me were also members, and I'm not counting jeepster because I haven't met and could not identify him. I will not call out people by name; if they want to self-identify that they were there, that is their choice. Here's the point, though: We have over 42,000 members. We had notice late last week that this was going to happen this morning. Admittedly, this was a Tuesday morning and granted, most of us are from the side of the aisle that has to work for a living, signing the fronts rather than the backs of the checks, but we got 0.02% of our members there.
OK. Leaving that issue aside for the moment, what else can we do? Our opposition, if the impression I got was correct that they are more vocal, has set the narrative on Constitutional carry. We tend to fall into a confirmation bias here. Constitutional carry just makes sense, and how could anyone not see that? Go to your circle of people. Get the subject of Constitutional carry going as relates to the other states- Maine, Vermont, West Virginia, Mississippi, Arkansas, Kansas, Arizona, Missouri, Idaho, Wyoming, Alaska, and with the exception of the cities, Montana. Make sure people know what the result of Constitutional carry has been in those states. When the laws are relaxed and criminals have more to fear, violent crime rates decrease. This is in clear opposition to what those on the Left tell us: Today, Rep. GiaQuinta seemed amenable to most suggestions, though he had some questions. Rep. Austin similarly, despite her late arrival, only asked Rep. Lucas to talk to the school superintendents about his bill decriminalizing carry on school grounds by retired or reserve LEOs. Rep. Vanessa Summers seemed almost on the verge of "getting it" for a short bit, but then fell back on the old anti- arguments. However, Rep. Charlie Brown stated outright that he would never vote for a gun bill. He then proved it, voting against the bill that grants a LTCH to retired LEOs. Rep Brown has made clear that his mind is made up, and he does not want to be confused with silly, irrelevant things like facts. He also made a point of saying that on that committee, he was "clearly in the minority in more ways than one", being anti-gun. I cannot say what else he might have been referencing, as I can't read his mind. To me, it came across that he was making a point of noting the fact that he is one of two Black representatives. If so, it struck me odd that he played the race card in that setting, when skin color had nothing to do with any bill being presented. If I read correctly and that is what he was doing, it struck me very similar to the one speaker from the so-called anti-domestic violence group who got all choked up, talking about how she also had been a victim of some violence of that nature in the past. Oddly, her tears dried up very quickly when the conversation and the testimony were over.
This is not to minimize the issue of violence, nor any suffering she might have endured. I am sympathetic to those who face that in their lives. There has to come a point, though, that you stop sniveling about it, stop letting it define your life, and move from being a victim to being a survivor. Lest anyone think I'm "mansplaining" or "trying to define a woman's suffering for her" or any similar rot, let me clarify that the "move from victim to survivor" is not my original idea, but one explained by therapists and their group therapy members who have experienced it.
For myself, I can only point to prejudice and bullying as things to move past: I experienced both growing up. Do I allow that to forever define me as a victim, or do I consider the source, note the fact that those who did it were small-minded, unimportant people, and relegate their actions to the trash heap on which they belong? I choose the latter.
I have far digressed from the topic. We have a problem with Constitutional carry, a problem of image. People (outside of INGO) see bills to create it and get mental images of Wyatt and Doc squaring off with the Clantons at the OK corral, or Marshall Dillon standing silhouetted in the swinging doors of the Long Branch saloon. We need to change that image to the reality that people exercising their rights does not mean anarchy or lawlessness, but rather a more armed and more polite society.
To those who did come to this meeting today, thank you!
Blessings,
Bill
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I really wish i could've made the trip, but unfortunately missing a days wages just isn't in the cards for me. Unfortunately Charlie Brown is my representative, and there is NO getting thru to him. Also, unfortunately, I don't see him getting voted out in this area in any near future. It sounds to me that the politicians are more afraid of the anti gunners and don't give a crap about us, and constitutional carry is not going to happen in Indiana in the near future. As long as people keep believing the bs that the anti gunners and fake news mainstream media keep pushing, this issue is forever dead in the water! I will however keep pushing and informing people of the true facts at hand in hopes that one day my daughter, who is 6 now, will not have to prove her innocence and pay a bribe, to be able to use her God given and constitutional right to Bear Arms
Have you called and/or written your legislators? Pressure from the voters is needed to be brought to bear.
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It's wry sad that we have to convince our representatives to vote our rights back to us. These are supposedly Smart people however they cannot understand or agree on one simple phrase "shall not be infridged". And haveing to pay big brother to exercise a right is in fact infringement.
Lady liberty is the one crying. Indiana says they want to lead the way however we will be one of the last states to pass constitutional carry.
Mine thing for the future (because I'm sure once again we will be beaten down by our elected officials, the protectors of freedom lol)
is we should move this thread to a more visible spot on ingo. Or maybe several that get the most traffic. Lots of people don't read these sections.
Also next year maybe we can rent a booth at the gun shows and get people on the spot to fill out a postage paid envelope to their reps. People with laptops or phones who can also search for who their reps are and hand out phone numbers or even let them make calls right there with prepaid phones or whatever. We have to get people to follow through on the spot or most simply won't do ****. We need warm bodies plain and simple. I hope for the next 4 years the gun community doesn't waste the current momentum we have and just feel comfortable and sit on their fat asses. Because we will lose rights if they do.
im willing to put money into this. I'm willing to put time into this. Let's do it. Let's shine the light on the public servants who can't read the constitution and listen to the mobs rather than the law. It's time to be a mob I guess. Let's play their game. Who can cry on command? I'm crying because we are being oppressed. We need women, we need all races, all walks of life. Because our strategy hasn't worked for years. Hell I don't think there has been any strategy other than put hope into a fart in the wind that people will follow through. They don't. So we need to be Sheppards and direct the sheep. Let them think they are in charge but we will be the persistent voice in their ear. The ones handing them paper and pen or a phone and saying here do this now. Call them out on the carpet and make them prove they are worthy citizen gun owners.
i think we had more support for this bill last session rather than this one.
we need to coordinate with good reps like Lucas and smaltz (thanks bill for sharing his stance) and Eberhart ect, that have our backs (the best interest of the constitution before any other). Next session let's get this **** done.
Lady liberty is the one crying. Indiana says they want to lead the way however we will be one of the last states to pass constitutional carry.
Mine thing for the future (because I'm sure once again we will be beaten down by our elected officials, the protectors of freedom lol)
is we should move this thread to a more visible spot on ingo. Or maybe several that get the most traffic. Lots of people don't read these sections.
Also next year maybe we can rent a booth at the gun shows and get people on the spot to fill out a postage paid envelope to their reps. People with laptops or phones who can also search for who their reps are and hand out phone numbers or even let them make calls right there with prepaid phones or whatever. We have to get people to follow through on the spot or most simply won't do ****. We need warm bodies plain and simple. I hope for the next 4 years the gun community doesn't waste the current momentum we have and just feel comfortable and sit on their fat asses. Because we will lose rights if they do.
im willing to put money into this. I'm willing to put time into this. Let's do it. Let's shine the light on the public servants who can't read the constitution and listen to the mobs rather than the law. It's time to be a mob I guess. Let's play their game. Who can cry on command? I'm crying because we are being oppressed. We need women, we need all races, all walks of life. Because our strategy hasn't worked for years. Hell I don't think there has been any strategy other than put hope into a fart in the wind that people will follow through. They don't. So we need to be Sheppards and direct the sheep. Let them think they are in charge but we will be the persistent voice in their ear. The ones handing them paper and pen or a phone and saying here do this now. Call them out on the carpet and make them prove they are worthy citizen gun owners.
i think we had more support for this bill last session rather than this one.
we need to coordinate with good reps like Lucas and smaltz (thanks bill for sharing his stance) and Eberhart ect, that have our backs (the best interest of the constitution before any other). Next session let's get this **** done.
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Once they take or add something it is near impossible to get it removed/reversed.
yep. But we've done it. We did it with short barreled shotguns, we did it with auto knives. We did it with in car carry on school grounds and at work. We can do this together but seperate we will fail again.
Agreed. Together we are a voice.
I wrote my state rep and senator this morning and pointed out that the GOP appears to be going to kill constitutional carry yet give me a hate crime law and a tax increase, and that sounds like the agenda of the Dems.
Been wondering the same thing myself.
Honestly? If yesterday's meeting is an indication, we need to show up with our own victims of DV and their success stories. The folks that did speak did a great, a fantastic job of stating facts and refuting the anti-side's tired statistics and mantra. But they had emotion. Even Rep. Sommers spoke of her work with victims of DV and she just couldn't understand why we'd (in the way I'd interpret what this bill would do) place guns in the hands of distraught women that might not be thinking right...all emotion. Guy read a letter from the founder of Hiding Hilda and the owner of Watson-Chamber defense and the owner of Indy Arms gave second hand testimony of their interactions with victims and their road to empowerment. But I don't think it was as meaningful as having the women (and I'm assuming there are some guys out there too) speaking for themselves, where they could put actual human faces with (what I assume they at least partially view as) self serving testimony.
Yep. See Bill's comments above. There was enough concern that it was better to table the bill for now rather than have it be voted down and done with. Like I said, being there was a real eye-opener. Getting to have some real quality time with Rep. Smaltz would, I think, have made a difference in your opinion as well.
I'd like to have been able to talk with him. Work and distance conspired against me for this.
I hear ya. This is the first time ive been able to go. It's a 2 hour drive plus the gold plated, diamond encrusted parking garage they charged me to park in--it's something I won't be able to do very often. (I'm sure there are cheaper places to park. That would help
)
brotherbill3
Master
QFT - image - get people interested - in a postive (for us) way.
Win the revolution ... we've been lulled and most people are and will be disinterested in liberty;
Don't expect to change the anti's minds; but remove their negative influence from anyone and everyone.
Make them the Tory's after Yorktown. (hint: they left, 10% population reduction).
Get beyond the walls of INGO and even FaceButt or Twitter.
Don't expect to alter an opinion in 1 or 2 interactions. - or ever with someone hardcore.
But don't miss the person next to them watching how you argue and the information you present
- that's our person to win.
Someone needs to throw that emotional appeal back in her face, and ask her why she thinks so poorly of women as to believe that women cannot control their emotions and fears well enough to act in their own self-defense.
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