HB 1369 constitutional carry bill introduced for Indiana

[KellyinAvon]

The 1 Mar 2022 date: that was part of getting the LEO community on board. The funding to cover the loss of revenue from LTCH (read this as ALL taxpayers in Indiana will be funding this chunk that goes to training and equipment, not just the incredibly law-abiding LTCH holders) is an estimate at best. Part of 1369 is directing ISP to have an analysis of the funding. This is also why 1369 is in a budget year, not a coincidence.

I (me, KellyinAvon, random dude from Hendricks County...) have on at least a couple occasions used ... more to follow

 

[Jaybird1980]

The 1 Mar 2022 date: that was part of getting the LEO community on board. The funding to cover the loss of revenue from LTCH (read this as ALL taxpayers in Indiana will be funding this chunk that goes to training and equipment, not just the incredibly law-abiding LTCH holders) is an estimate at best. Part of 1369 is directing ISP to have an analysis of the funding. This is also why 1369 is in a budget year, not a coincidence.

I (me, KellyinAvon, random dude from Hendricks County...) have on at least a couple occasions used ... more to follow

If I'm understanding correctly, everyone with a current LTCH either lifetime or 5year will still be recognized by other states right?

No reason to get a reciprocity license if you have a Lifetime LTCH right?

 

[KellyinAvon]

If I'm understanding correctly, everyone with a current LTCH either lifetime or 5year will still be recognized by other states right?

No reason to get a reciprocity license if you have a Lifetime LTCH right?

The ones that recognize our LTCH now will recognize the Reciprocity license, the requirements to receive the license are not changing.

 

[Jaybird1980]

The ones that recognize our LTCH now will recognize the Reciprocity license, the requirements to receive the license are not changing.

But will the current LTCH holders have to get the new Reciprocity License?

I'm assuming they will still honor the old LTCH holders.

 

[KellyinAvon]

The 1 Mar 2022 date: that was part of getting the LEO community on board. The funding to cover the loss of revenue from LTCH (read this as ALL taxpayers in Indiana will be funding this chunk that goes to training and equipment, not just the incredibly law-abiding LTCH holders) is an estimate at best. Part of 1369 is directing ISP to have an analysis of the funding. This is also why 1369 is in a budget year, not a coincidence.

I (me, KellyinAvon, random dude from Hendricks County...) have on at least a couple occasions used ... more to follow

OK I'm back, a shout-out to Diamond Collision coming soon (NOT the infamous red Honda Civic, a different color Honda Civic.)

Picking back up from here:
I (me, KellyinAvon, random dude from Hendricks County...) have on at least a couple occasions used the "organize, train, and equip" comparison with the military services mission when testifying on ConC. I realized early on at the summer study in 2017 that this was about MONEY. Here in Indiana it is the responsibility of the elected officials to ensure LE Organizations are trained and equipped. In order to accomplish this with limited resources, a standard must be set to the level of equipping and training.

Without a set standard, you have a bottomless pit of requirements to meet with scarce resources (my tax money BETTER be a scarce resource.)

 

[KellyinAvon]

But will the current LTCH holders have to get the new Reciprocity License?

I'm assuming they will still honor the old LTCH holders.

Roger that.

 

[chipbennett]

I may have found a problem. July 1st 2021 is the cut off date for issuing the LTCH. But Constitutional carry and the reciprocity license don't go into effect until March 2022. So anyone who isn't issued a LTCH by 7/1/21 is screwed until 3/1/22. That's if I'm reading it right.

And I still have a problem with the language of carry in states we have a reciprocity agreement with. And that would be we don't have any, and there is no mechanism in the IC to enter into one.

It took me a second to get what you were saying. I'll take another look, and see if I read it the same way. I certainly didn't the first time.

 

[chipbennett]

They are stopping the issue of LTCHs on 6/30/21, then they are starting to issue the reciprocity license on 7/1/21. Constitutional carry doesn't start until 3/1/22, 8 months after they start issuing the reciprocity license. If as the bill states it's only good for carry in states we have a reciprocity agreement... We don't have an agreement with ourselves. See what I'm talking about?

ETA I have the lifetime, I'm not worried about myself. I'm worried that this can screw others.

The LTCH and the Reciprocity are functionally, statutorily equivalent. I'm not sure I see the issue here.

 

[cobber]

The LTCH and the Reciprocity are functionally, statutorily equivalent. I'm not sure I see the issue here.

There’s actually no such thing as a Reciprocity License yet and who knows if other States would treat it the same as an LTCH?
If the State is going to offer something like this, how about incorporate a tax-deductible training component so it would be recognized by more States?

 

[chipbennett]

There’s actually no such thing as a Reciprocity License yet and who knows if other States would treat it the same as an LTCH?
If the State is going to offer something like this, how about incorporate a tax-deductible training component so it would be recognized by more States?

Yeah, big NO on a training requirement. Every time Indiana tries it, we get attempted crony capitalism.

 

[MCgrease08]

There’s actually no such thing as a Reciprocity License yet and who knows if other States would treat it the same as an LTCH?

Other states can recognize or not recognize the current LTCH as they choose today. Why would it be any different after they change the name to "Reciprocity License?"

I honestly have no idea why so many are getting wrapped around the axle on this topic.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Yeah, big NO on a training requirement. Every time Indiana tries it, we get attempted crony capitalism.

Right. The point is to get rid of the hoops needed to jump through.

If you want training go get it. Don't be trying to add requirements to the process when the whole point is to remove requirements.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Picking back up from here:
I (me, KellyinAvon, random dude from Hendricks County...) have on at least a couple occasions used the "organize, train, and equip" comparison with the military services mission when testifying on ConC. I realized early on at the summer study in 2017 that this was about MONEY. Here in Indiana it is the responsibility of the elected officials to ensure LE Organizations are trained and equipped. In order to accomplish this with limited resources, a standard must be set to the level of equipping and training.

Without a set standard, you have a bottomless pit of requirements to meet with scarce resources (my tax money BETTER be a scarce resource.)

Oh I know it was about the money. And thank you for your time and effort you put into this. But please see below. And one other thing I think they may have missed a date change. The reciprocity license doesn't take effect until March 2022
(b)Nothing in this chapter may be construed to affect the status or validity of a five(5)year or lifetime license to carry a handgun issued by the superintendent before July1,2021. Any license described under this subsection shall remain valid for the duration of the license or the lifetime of the licensee, as applicable.

The LTCH and the Reciprocity are functionally, statutorily equivalent. I'm not sure I see the issue here.

I'll have to disagree that they are functionally and definitely not statutorily equivalent. The statute state that the reciprocity license is for those who wish to carry in another state under a reciprocity agreement. We have no reciprocity agreements with any other state, and there is nothing in the code to allow for one. Statutorily it would not be valid in any of the states that recognize our current LTCH.

"A resident of this state who wishes to carry a firearm in another state under a reciprocity agreement entered into by this state and another state may obtain an Indiana reciprocity license under this chapter"

Other states can recognize or not recognize the current LTCH as they choose today. Why would it be any different after they change the name to "Reciprocity License?"

I honestly have no idea why so many are getting wrapped around the axle on this topic.

See above, it's not just a name change. It's specifically and statutorily for carrying in another state that has entered into a reciprocity agreement with IN. There is no state that has.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Oh I know it was about the money. And thank you for your time and effort you put into this. But please see below. And one other thing I think they may have missed a date change. The reciprocity license doesn't take effect until March 2022
(b)Nothing in this chapter may be construed to affect the status or validity of a five(5)year or lifetime license to carry a handgun issued by the superintendent before July1,2021. Any license described under this subsection shall remain valid for the duration of the license or the lifetime of the licensee, as applicable.

I'll have to disagree that they are functionally and definitely not statutorily equivalent. The statute state that the reciprocity license is for those who wish to carry in another state under a reciprocity agreement. We have no reciprocity agreements with any other state, and there is nothing in the code to allow for one. Statutorily it would not be valid in any of the states that recognize our current LTCH.

"A resident of this state who wishes to carry a firearm in another state under a reciprocity agreement entered into by this state and another state may obtain an Indiana reciprocity license under this chapter"


See above, it's not just a name change. It's specifically and statutorily for carrying in another state that has entered into a reciprocity agreement with IN. There is no state that has.

TL/DR Guy just mentioned an amendment going in to clarify the issue.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

TL/DR Guy just mentioned an amendment going in to clarify the issue.

Thanks much. But I'm hurt you didn't read it. You know how much of a pain it was to copy the text of the bill over here? It all ran together and I had to insert spaces between words.

 

[Gabriel]

Right. The point is to get rid of the hoops needed to jump through.

If you want training go get it. Don't be trying to add requirements to the process when the whole point is to remove requirements.

I would be completely against mandating training to acquire a LTCH, but some sort of incentive to get training would be great in my opinion.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I would be completely against mandating training to acquire a LTCH, but some sort of incentive to get training would be great in my opinion.

I agree, but I would rather see people doing the training provide the incentive to new gun owners, keep the government involvement out of it.

 

[Gabriel]

I agree, but I would rather see people doing the training provide the incentive to new gun owners, keep the government involvement out of it.

I agree with that, but I was thinking more of waiving the LTCH fees or some sort of reimbursement when providing proof of training. In that respect, it mostly keeps the .gov out of the training process and might incentivize (or even make people aware of training that might not know anything about it or that training even exists) someone to get learned on firearms when considering a LTCH.

That's mostly moot if constitutional carry becomes a thing, which would be awesome. It would then only apply to those that wanted reciprocity from other states.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I agree with that, but I was thinking more of waiving the LTCH fees or some sort of reimbursement when providing proof of training. In that respect, it mostly keeps the .gov out of the training process and might incentivize (or even make people aware of training that might not know anything about it or that training even exists) someone to get learned on firearms when considering a LTCH.

That's mostly moot if constitutional carry becomes a thing, which would be awesome. It would then only apply to those that wanted reciprocity from other states.

I kinda like Kirk's idea, but don't tell him I said so. He's got a big enough head as it it(or perhaps that's how it appears due to lack of hair). Tax deduction for training or safes and such.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I agree with that, but I was thinking more of waiving the LTCH fees or some sort of reimbursement when providing proof of training. In that respect, it mostly keeps the .gov out of the training process and might incentivize (or even make people aware of training that might not know anything about it or that training even exists) someone to get learned on firearms when considering a LTCH.

That's mostly moot if constitutional carry becomes a thing, which would be awesome. It would then only apply to those that wanted reciprocity from other states.

I could agree with waiving a fee, discount or tax deduction as long as it doesn't lead to cronyism. I think they could still do something like this even with the reciprocity license. I guess no matter what you do somebody's going to try to abuse it.