getting out of indianapolis area in emergency

[Pami]

Hate to break the news to you, but Indy would be a prime target because of 3 companies. Lilly for their drug making ability, Allison Gas Turbine and Allison Transmmsion as military defense contractors. AGT for jet replacment engines for choppers and jets, AT because I believe they still make the M1A1 Abrhams transmissions.

Not to mention the fact that Indianpolis still ranks as the 12th largest city in the U.S.

Before a majority of Allison was bought by Rolls Royce (thus terminating several of the military contracts), Indianapolis was on the top 10 list of strategic hits in the country. (My mom has worked at plants 5 & 8 since I was 12, so about 20 years? I get jealous when she tells me the Osprey is visiting the plants and she gets to see it.) I'm sure we dropped a couple points when Rolls Royce came in, but not many.

 

[Richard]

I have been thinking about “Tactical” Mutual Support Groups. Could we as civilians train like a SWAT team without being looked at as Militia Type? If you could put a team in place to evacuate, would that be better than trying alone? How could you train driving as a team for 60-100 miles? Communications could be a problem if your MSG is not your neighborhood. Maybe a system of check points or safe places.
Probably wishful thinking but It would be nice to have allies if SHTF.

USMC,

Well considering that Anderson's "gang members" easily outnumber the APD (Anderson Police Department) by at least 10 to 1, I am thinking that post-SHTF they'd be a massive problem here, so it might not be a good place for folks trying to evacuate safely from Indianapolis to plan on traveling through.

So for all you guys in Indy I'd suggest avoiding Anderson if at all possible, but your the suggestion of "evacuation MSG groups" is a really great idea USMC, I'd be interested in joining/participating in something like that.

 

[techres]

...but your the suggestion of "evacuation MSG groups" is a really great idea USMC, I'd be interested in joining/participating in something like that.

Things to consider:

1. Rally points.
2. Cache points.
3. Movement groups.
4. Communications.

Have them all. The first one is the most vital and should be something that everyone has in each direction (N/S/E/W). Best way to have these, even informally, is for people to know people. That is where the MSG begins...

 

[CarmelHP]

The big nukes are meant for first-strike silo busting. A city the size of Indy would most likely be targeted, if at all, with about a third of a megaton warhead. Dirty bombs are extraordinarily overrated. The Hiroshima bomb, in addition to being a real nuke, was really dirty. The streetcars were running within two weeks. Life will not end, at least not for everyone, it may never be the same, but it will not end.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I live in the north east indianapolis area and have family in eastern indiana.
In the event of SHTH, etc., I'm planning a back road route to get "home"

What do you think a person would need to bring?

Best gun?

I'm perhaps paranoid, but I could see a rough trip in the event of first the bomb/disease/whatever, spending a few days/weeks in indianapolis home and then leaving for rural home. Possibility of trouble from other people on the road or route? Hard to tell, but if so, what would you bring?

Currently only own a shotgun. Looking at either AR or AK.

Handgun?

Other items?

Thanks for your input.

Keep at least half your supplies where you plan to go to. Show up empty handed and hungry and you won't be very welcome no matter where you go.

Have it there or bring it with you if you expect to be a welcomed team member instead of a resented hunk of dead wood...

Something to sleep on
Tents enough to cover your own family's butts if we have to bug out from here
Bedding
towels, soap, what ever
clothes APPROPRIATE TO THE SEASON, SHOES YOU CAN WORK IN
what ever fuel you need
food
money
USEFUL SKILLS, A STRONG BACK AND HANDS WITH CALLUSES, not baby doctor hands.
Lawyers, bankers, salesmen, politicions just stay home where you are holding your breath waiting until I call needing you
Tools, guns, ammo
Spare tires for what ever you need to drive, tire plugging kit and battery op air compressor
Compass, maps, GPS, skills to use them
Batteries, flash lights, FRS radios, whistle
Clean water, water filters
Aspirin, antibiotics, alcohol, neosporin, needle and thread, super glue, duct tape, gauze
CAN DO AND WANT TO ATTITUDE

 

[Jack Ryan]

Before a majority of Allison was bought by Rolls Royce (thus terminating several of the military contracts), Indianapolis was on the top 10 list of strategic hits in the country. (My mom has worked at plants 5 & 8 since I was 12, so about 20 years? I get jealous when she tells me the Osprey is visiting the plants and she gets to see it.) I'm sure we dropped a couple points when Rolls Royce came in, but not many.

Allison isn't a tenth of the manufacture it was 20 years ago. Not in any sense. A couple cans of gasoline could shut that down any day.

 

[rhino]

The big nukes are meant for first-strike silo busting. A city the size of Indy would most likely be targeted, if at all, with about a third of a megaton warhead. Dirty bombs are extraordinarily overrated. The Hiroshima bomb, in addition to being a real nuke, was really dirty. The streetcars were running within two weeks. Life will not end, at least not for everyone, it may never be the same, but it will not end.

That's my understanding as well. Of course, I'm no expert and I'm often the epitome of wrong!

 

[Grizhicks]

My biggest concern is a major earthquake (maybe not SHTF, but close), and being at work or else where is Indianapolis. I afraid that I may not be able to get outside of I-465, due to bridges collapsing (or only a limited bridges available and being a major choke point).

 

[Indy317]

Well considering that Anderson's "gang members" easily outnumber the APD (Anderson Police Department) by at least 10 to 1, I am thinking that post-SHTF they'd be a massive problem here, so it might not be a good place for folks trying to evacuate safely from Indianapolis to plan on traveling through.

The thing is, in times of a complete collapse, "gang members" will be the first ones to die-off. Not being prepared, they will be killed trying to loot other people's property. A lot of people have guns at home, even if it is a single shot shotgun, that they don't carry out and about. Those guns would be at the ready, 99% of them in my opinion. Secondly, gang members eat their own all the time. Gangs kill themselves and other gangs. They will likely cut their numbers at least in half just by attacking each other.

The LA riots are a good example of what will happen. The Koreans armed themselves and this proved very effective. The LA riots were mostly confined to three days, with 53 people being killed. If you dig deep, most of those killed were likely gang members and had nothing to do with the rioting. Gangs saw the lack of cops as a way to finally put their payback plans into action...against other gangs.

 

[cosermann]

Hate to break the news to you, but Indy would be a prime target because of . . .

Really. I had no idea anything of any importance ever went on in Indianapolis.

Fortunately, none of these things makes Indy a primary, first strike target. That's what the big ones are for (as others have pointed out). Additionally, the big ones will also be spread among our allies such as France (as much as it pains me to use "allies" and "France" in the same sentence).

I do agree that the point is somewhat debatable. Nuclear targeting changes over time. It depends on the tactical/socio/political situation at the time of the attack. What's important is that YOU, i.e. each of us, does the analysis based on facts (not silly statements about 50 mt devices hitting Indy) and plans according to individual convictions. In the end, it's guesswork to some degree and it's not as simple as some make it sound.

I stand by my original assertion that a 50 mt hit on Indy is not going to happen (the weapons currently do not exist), and a 20 mt hit is highly unlikely. The probable scenario in a nation/state type conflict (still pretty unlikely) would be on the order of 100-475 kt and that is IF the conflict progressed to the point where secondary targets were hit. The most likely scenario would be a terrorist hit which would be relatively low yield (although dirty). This is very simplified.

FWIW, the last target analysis I saw on Indiana looked something like this (circa 1990, and much has changed even since then - Grissom being a good example).

Primary:
Grissom AFB (Stratotankers, Peru).
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Secondary: [/FONT]
Crane, Jeffersonville (Louisville, Ky.)
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tertiary: [/FONT]
Anderson, Evansville, Fort Wayne, Gary, Elkhart, Indianapolis, Lafayette, Muncie, New Albany, South Bend, Terre Haute.

 

[Dr Falken]

As far as nuclear weapons strikes, who do you see as the "enemy" in that scenario? China, Russia, Pakistan, India, or perhaps a disgruntled EU? What other countries.

As to gangs, I don't know any members, but I think that the real gangs have some leadership, kinda like the drug cartels in Mexico and Cental America, I could not perdict how they might act, but I'm not sure that they would grind themselves up trying to pilfer the armed, but who knows.

Another thought about getting out of Indy (GOOI) is there a water route? Often times river routes are overlooked and not patroled. It gives you a different set of security concerns, but it might be something to consider.

This is good fun, like writing a Science Fiction book, but it helps you think outside the box and maybe some good ideas can come out of it.

 

[Richard]

The thing is, in times of a complete collapse, "gang members" will be the first ones to die-off.

Unfortunately the "example" set by all of the other places around the world which have experienced a complete governmental collapses it's always the criminal gangs which step into the power vacuum left when the police stop reporting for duty.

It won't happen right away but I can guarantee they'll try to make it happen and they'll keep recruiting post-SHTF and I hate to say this but their recruiting efforts will be extremely fruitful, especially if there are no more police to be afraid of.

So I do believe that gangs will be a major problem post-SHTF.

 

[Glockman1989]

12cans; Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. The more Liberty Teeth and NWO pet food the better.

 

[Chefcook]

The fact of the matter is, it is time to stop worrying about hypothetical issues and start thinking about the real life issues that confront us right now. Like how our own government it hell bent on enslaving the American people and turning us into a socialized nation. As most of us have never really known freedom, maybe the transition to total slavery wont be too painful...

 

[USPc40]

FWIW, the last target analysis I saw on Indiana looked something like this (circa 1990, and much has changed even since then - Grissom being a good example).

Primary:
Grissom AFB (Stratotankers, Peru).
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Secondary: [/FONT]
Crane, Jeffersonville (Louisville, Ky.)
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tertiary: [/FONT]
Anderson, Evansville, Fort Wayne, Gary, Elkhart, Indianapolis, Lafayette, Muncie, New Albany, South Bend, Terre Haute.

Unfortunatley the only things left to eliminate in Anderson are Nestle Quick, Coffee Mate, and slot machines.

 

[ballzac86]

Unfortunatley the only things left to eliminate in Anderson are Nestle Quick, Coffee Mate, and slot machines.

Take the coffee and chocolate, but leave the slots alone!

 

[tom1025]

If the SHTF you wouldnt be the only person trying to use the backroads. I think too many people have been watching RED DAWN. The best tool of survival is knowledge and unless you know how to live of the land it wont matter how much you stock pile because you will run out sooner or later. If you do have to leave your car you need to make sure you are in good enough shape to carry your gear. One good way to test yourself is to load up a 60 pound pac and go for a 10 mile hike. If you cant do this then you should start hitting the gym or just stay at home.

 

[rhino]

I think the huge thermonukes are unlikely. If any still exist intact, in working order and if they are in a delivery vehicles that could effectively target the USA, they're going to come from sources that would have a vested interest in not destroying our resources. If Russia or China wanted to attack us, they're going to want it to be worth their time and expenditures, which means they'll want our farmland and the infrastructure necessary intact.

 

[homeless]

On Gangs: Most of the criminal and gang activity in this state is based of low level unorginized street gangs. They will be a threat, but there primary concern will be looting and survival. While you will have to be wary of them, unless you are passing through there turf you dont need to worry until they try your door. There are a few real gangs here, however they are very limited these days. Groups such as the Outlaws are still very active here and they are an international group. Expect them try to set themselves up as WarLords. However most real 1%rs don't really care about hurting "civilians" as long as you give them proper respect. There are also confirmed members of the "Triads" operating here but on a very low level, they will go to hook up with their parent orginizations. The major gang problem will be groups like MS13 that have migrated to this area in small numbers, combine that with the prison population that WILL take the opertunity to escape and hook up with locals, they are dangerous and extremely violent, but will not be looking to cause chaos, just Rape, Theft, and extortion.



As far an NBC type attack, Indy is fairly low on the probability list. Even when you take into account the massige industrial base that is here. (There are companies that make cruise missle launchers and others that make portable satilite communication rigs in indy) We have the benifit of being very close to higher priority targets, so as long as we aren't engaged in Full Scale Thermo Nuclear War we should be ok. So the million dollar question of "WHO?" : Well if Indy gets hit I would actually start thinking about a False Flag type event. That statement may not be popular, but it must be considered.



INGO survival: The thought of members of this forum actually seting up a defensive network is not a bad idea. However there are several issues to look at. First off some people want to bug out other to bug in. If we are moving around that will make contact difficult. Furthermore what type of aid are we looking at here? We also would need to fomilize uniform communication devices and channels, then we would need to designate callsigns. Individuals would need to step forward into leadership roles to set up rally and way points, designate safe zones, pick up points, and escape routes. The big problem is that most Survivalist really do envision themselves as the Last Man on Earth. This is not bad, this just means that you think you will fight harder than anyone else. It also means that you will not give up control to others easily. And when we are talking about giving aid, what will the cost of giving this aid be? None of us are communists, thus nothing is free.



Threats I plan for: Earth quake, absolutely. Until Lilly lost its majority market share, 80-90% of Americas insulin was manufactued at the Clinton plant. A significant percentage still is, so if that fault line goes off many people will die do to lack of meds. Also due to the large number of Highway and Rail lines crossing this state, a quake will cause major supply and transportation problems throughout the nation. But on the plus Chicago might just fall into the lake.

The other threat I plan for is Zombies. Every day I wake up and check the news. The best part of my day is when it is still possible that the first tidbit of information I get might just be an anchoman saying in all seriousness, "America we have been attacked by Zombies. Shoot them in the head." Besides I think zombies would be a cake walk compared to most of the actual problems this nation faces currently.


Final Thought: The only thing that we can be sure of is that me must be flexable. Plan for the worst cases, and then repack your gear as needed. If you adopt a ridged plan you will die when murphy calls. So keep your mags topped and stay frosty.

 

[Richard]

Homeless,

I really hate to have to point this out but gang's do not have a "proper respect" code of ethics in which they will not victimize you or your family.

And I believe that underestimating the danger that would be posed by groups of organized, armed & dangerous criminals (even street level ones) post-SHTF is rather unwise in my opinion.