Enhanced Interrogation- from a guy who did it, and saved a lot of lives

[jamil]

1) A child buried alive with less than a few hours of air left or, for example,

2) A timed release of a biologic agent already planted with the timer ticking, then

I believe all forms of information extraction are on the table with the most effective means attempted first.

On the other hand, a dissident who shouts "Death to America" and is known to be part of a terrorist cell with no active identifiable threat gets the Pat Boone music.

Yeah. But I'd escalate the Pat Boone music to the trance duet with Lady Gaga.

 

[Alpo]

I listened to some trance stuff on Spotify just to understand what you were talking about.

Does that music sound better with drugs?

 

[Trigger Time]

I think suits and politicians should stay the **** away from war where the big boys play with big toys that could hurt them or chip a nail.

 

[Alpo]

No way! I want them geared up and on point.

 

[ATM]

...You get frustrated...

Why do you believe I am frustrated?

 

[Woobie]

Under what authority would "whoever" set the consequences?

It doesn't matter if I think there should be consequences. But you said there would be. So I want to see whose punishment you would submit to, and under what authority they must be acting.

Buehler?

 

[ATM]

...It doesn't matter if I think there should be consequences...

Actually, it all hinges on that.

Buehler?

 

[Woobie]

Actually, it all hinges on that.

Buehler?

You made the statement that you should receive the consequences of your actions. So we're in your world now. We're exploring your views about your own statement, not mine. Stop filibustering.

I have an answer, and will gladly give it. But I would hate to influence your statement by introducing my opinion.

 

[ATM]

You made the statement that you should receive the consequences of your actions. So we're in your world now. We're exploring your views about your own statement, not mine. Stop filibustering.

I have an answer, and will gladly give it. But I would hate to influence your statement by introducing my opinion.

You're the one skipping the question. Not filibustering, waiting for you to catch up to the conversation.

Justify your position or leave it unjustified, which is my position. I don't need you to answer.

 

[Woobie]

You're the one skipping the question. Not filibustering, waiting for you to catch up to the conversation.

Justify your position or leave it unjustified, which is my position. I don't need you to answer.

Seriously? You disappoint me. Honesty is your friend.

Also, if you've not been paying attention, I have made a great many arguments to justify these methods. Maybe not to you, but I don't have to justify it to you. I justified it to myself, and many people will agree to some degree or other with me. That you hold an indefensible position is not my problem. But in that position, there will be no justifying it to you.

You would submit to the consequences set by whom, and under what authority?

 

[ATM]

Seriously? You disappoint me. Honesty is your friend.

Also, if you've not been paying attention, I have made a great many arguments to justify these methods. Maybe not to you, but I don't have to justify it to you. I justified it to myself, and many people will agree to some degree or other with me. That you hold an indefensible position is not my problem. But in that position, there will be no justifying it to you.

Please summarize from your great many arguments how and where you justified not deserving a consequence for initiating aggression against another to extract information from them.

Quote it, if you can, so I can admit that I missed it and then address it.

If you can't, well, my point will simply stand.

 

[Woobie]

Please summarize from your great many arguments how and where you justified not deserving a consequence for initiating aggression against another to extract information from them.

Quote it, if you can, so I can admit that I missed it and then address it.

If you can't, well, my point will simply stand.

So your reading comprehension is my problem, and your filibustering is also my problem. Ok....

 

[jamil]

Why do you believe I am frustrated?

You're following the usual pattern.

 

[Woobie]

Well, it's good to see everyone is nice and comfortable. Since we are channeling Orwell:

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

I'm sure in INGO's twisted morality we're OK with sending a 19 year old to his death, and shooting as many people as he can in the process, but dang it, if he gets somebody's sinuses wet in the process someone needs to pay. Hellfire on a wedding reception? No big deal. Slap someone in the face? We've become just like the people we're fighting.

As to whether it works or not, I'll just say this from someone whose honesty I trust implicitly: everyone cracks in SERE. Everyone. And those guys come out just fine (as long as they went in fine).

So if we have a good enough reason to go to war, we have a good enough reason to use legal forms of torture to shorten that war. Or did you know your squishy feelings were responsible for endangering American troops and civilians?

Well here is my first post in the thread.

 

[ATM]

So your reading comprehension is my problem, and your filibustering is also my problem. Ok....

I've pointed out your mistakes a few times, have you pointed out mine? Will you at some point?

I claim that it's wrong, unjustifiable. Get busy justifying it or come up with some new angle.

Filibustering? No need.

 

[ATM]

You're following the usual pattern.

Winning?

 

[ATM]

Well here is my first post in the thread.

You do realize that the U.S. is at war with anyone and everyone at this point, right?

Is that your best stab at removing consequences for violating people, adopting the U.S. government excuse?

 

[Woobie]

Of course they aren't saying the things I did. But that's because they haven't acknowledged the truth of their own position. To send people to war is precisely as I described. Now it often doesn't wind up that the 19 year old dies, but we have accepted that as possible. And if not, he may come back mentally or physically maimed. And we certainly aren't clamoring for an end to the drone strikes, even though we know many innocents are killed as collateral damage or through bad intel. That is war. And people accept that. But they won't accept something less violent as a means to shorten that war? Someone has to point out the hypocrisy.

And yes, water boarding as practiced by the U.S. is a psychological tool. The physical impact is wet sinuses and elevated heart rate. They decide they don't like it, and when faced with the possibility of doing it again, they weigh their options again, and find their priorities have shifted. And water boarding is one of only 10, by the way. It's just the lightning rod.

My second post in this thread. Non-pertinent response to Jamil removed.

 

[Woobie]

You do realize that the U.S. is at war with anyone and everyone at this point, right?

Is that your best stab at removing consequences for violating people, adopting the U.S. government excuse?

I'm sorry. Your utter disrespect conveyed through refusal to answer my questions has resulted in my refusal to continue to answer yours. If you would like to continue to ask, then you will require my prior courtesy.

 

[ATM]

My second post in this thread. Non-pertinent response to Jamil removed.

...because, WAR.