Dog bites

[stephen87]

the other side of this is how many dogs need training to not randomly attack and bit people? I have had several mutts with no training who were just great dogs. Does a pit require training to not attack?

Not at all. My girlfriend has a pit, and she is the sweetest dog ever. I can show you a dachshund who is 150x more likely to bite you. First time I met her, she attackes me... with kisses. Everytime she sees me she wants to lick me. She's like that with everyone. It all depends on how they're raised.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

I didn't read all of this thread because from the beginning it is full of incorrect info presented as facts. "Pitbull" is not a breed, it is a moniker attached to a variety of breeds. There is no statistical facts to support any of the pure "pitbull" breeds as being more inclined to bite than any other breed but a variety of facts to support that they bite less. Farmers Branch TX was the first city to keep records of bites by breed, from 1980-1987 they had a total of 1593 bites, 31 of which were attributed to "pitbulls". A purebred and responsibly owned American Staffordshire, American bulldog, American Pitbull Terrier or similar "pure" pitbull breed will be safer than most any other breed.

If they are so violent towards humans then how did human handlers and referees orchestrate dog fights? Dogs will conduct themselves as they are trained and allowed. Why do you see more "pitbull" bites in the hospital? Probably because Yorkshire Terriers don't bite as hard.

I own 2 beautiful American Pitbull Terriers who are the most gentle, loving and loyal dogs I've ever had. I've trained 4 dogs up to be certified as Therapy dogs, 1 collie and 3 golden retrievers, and while they were great, my APBT's are truly the best I've ever had. My dogs would fight to the death to defend me, and you better believe ill fight to the death to defend them.

 

[Hornett]

I don't like Pitbulls and I don't like Chows.
They are the two breeds that act all harmless then bite your face when you least expect it..

Dobermans were mentioned.
Yeah, they can be mean,
However...
If a Doberman is going to bite you, you will know it.
The dog makes it very clear.

IMHO

 

[mbills2223]

I don't like Pitbulls and I don't like Chows.
They are the two breeds that act all harmless then bite your face when you least expect it..

Dobermans were mentioned.
Yeah, they can be mean,
However...
If a Doberman is going to bite you, you will know it.
The dog makes it very clear.

IMHO

That's an outrageous thing to say. Do you regularly see "pitbulls" and chows acting all sweet, and then turning on people when the time is right?

 

[CountryBoy19]

I know most people blame the owner and not the dog for a lot of pitbull related issues, but why is it that 60-70% of the dogbites I tend to see in the ER are from pitbulls? Many of these are seemingly unprovoked (though so are the random beatings that people supposedly come in with all the time, so who knows). There's probably a sampling bias because the nippy dogs may not require their victims to hit the ER.
f
Despite all those that say pit bulls are loving creatures if they're raised properly, I still say they are evil. You can train a lion for years and make millions making it do tricks, but at the end of the day it could still take a chunk out of your neck.

That's all. You may now all agree with me. I'll just sit back and accept your approval and accolades

I don't think it's really that simple. Its very hard to prove one side or the other because the owners of said pets aren't the sam. Lok at the crowd that typically owns pits. A very large percentage are the type that will, and do mis-train them. Therefore you end up with a skewed result when you look at only the number of pitbull bites.

I used to be sared of them, and I'm still cautious but I had some new renters move in next door with 4 pits. I was nervous but a few weeks of observing them calmed my fear. These 4 dogs are very well trained and they listen to their masters. They are very playful and they never leave their yard.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

I would love to see a statistic for the "type of people" who own pitbulls. An extremely small number of people abuse and fight their dogs. It's like saying that all gun owners are murderers. Also, anyone making this ridiculous claims, are you a dog trainer? Veteranarian? Statician? Does anyone have any factual basis for any of these claims? Or just spouting off their own personal agendas based on nothing?

In closing, anyone who puts marmalade on toast is a car thief. I see it everyday, hillbillies get jacked up on marmalade and go out stealing cars and spitting in front of women. We have to write out senators about supporting a ban on marmalade, it's for the children.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Mike, what of my OP was incorrect info presented as fact?

 

[RedneckReject]

Mike, what of my OP was incorrect info presented as fact?

I think he meant that you must be wrong because "pitbull" is not a breed, but more of a "catch all" for numerous breeds with similar traits. He is correct, however that doesn't change the fact that the bites you see most often are from any of the breeds that fall into the pitbull category. He is also correct that this is no statistical evidence that a pitbull is more inclined to bite as any other breed. That also does not change the fact that you see more of those bites than anything else. Although I still don't believe pits are more vicious than any other dog (not by nature anyway), you've seen what you've seen. To dispute that would be, in essence, calling you a liar. I don't doubt your observations for a second. But I also remember years ago when the majority of animal bites were from Dobermans. Then all of a sudden the majority were from Rottweilers. Now it's pitbulls. There's a new "scary aggressive breed" every decade or so. And as much as I hate to judge people, I really think a lot of it is that certain types of people decide on a dog that they think can be mean because they think it's cool/will make a great guard dog/makes them feel better about themselves/whatever. They train it to be mean. Other people pick up on the same idea that said breed can be trained to be mean. It spirals out of control. I remember when GSDs were thought to be vicious monsters. Now they're considered great family dogs. Go figure.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

I also don't dispute what you have seen, but that doesn't mean "pitbulls" bite more. Many breeds that bite more dont nessecitate medical attention.

1. There is no factual evidence to support that "pitbulls" bite more than any other breed, but rather a variety of factual evidence to support that purebred "pitbulls" bite less.

2. When you lump crossbreeds of 20 different breeds together and call them all "pitbulls" then they should have more incedents because they are a higher number of them.

3. Media outlets live on sensation and don't live on accuracy. VISCIOUS PITBULL ATTACKS CHURCH GROUP AND EATS BABIES AND STEALS BACON is a more powerful headline than "small dog bites someone and causes no damage". What percentage of these incedents are from true "pitbulls" and what percentage are from various mixed breeds that are labelled as pits?

4. Various small breeds bite far more often but it doesn't incite a story, whether by media or word of mouth, so it goes totally unknown. Many owners of small breeds totally allow their dogs to continue to bite with the idea that they aren't really hurting anyone.

My comments weren't aimed at you as an individual but at a variety of people who spread this ignorance without doing any real research of any kind. Should all white people be considered dangerous because Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were both white? Should we deport all Germans because Hitler was a bad guy? Breed specific legislation is the biggest crock of trash ever and it's only supported by ignorant people who are too lazy to research and too close minded to try and understand. If a person just doesn't like "pitbulls" that's fine but don't go spreading misinformation just for sport. I hate onions, but I don't go around saying that onions give you cancer and cause your wife to leave.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I have been bitten repeatedly by goldfish while feeding them. Fortunately, it's inconsequential. I haven't seen golden retrievers bite people, despite them being just as capable of inflicting considerable damage. I'm sure there are anectodal stories of retrievers biting people, but I haven't seen it.

My point is not to be breed specific, as I can only report what people who are bitten call the animal. If a tiny dog does tiny bites, just not sure that is the same as a big dog taking big bites is what I'm saying I guess. The issue isn't the bite, it's the damage caused by the bite.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

So we should all be deathly afraid of guns and avoid them at all costs?

 

[churchmouse]

Just like people....some will bite/kick/punch for no more reason than they wanted to. Pits are prone to this but as they are a mixing pot for many breeds some are just aggressive. Buddy used to breed and raise them. He could tell pretty early in the life cycle which ones were lovers and which were fighters. It was a 50% thing in his words. A few he had put down as they were just whack from the get.
Pitts are just not a dog I like being around. Not from media hype but from the vibe I get personally from them. I like dogs, have had more than a few and get along with most all of them. Keep your pit's at home.
We have had 3 strays (pits) in the back yard in the last year and all 3 were whack. I do not like or trust that breed. JMHO

 

[Mike Elzinga]

They aren't prone to anything, not a fact. Your friend was a breeder and half of his dogs were messed up? Sounds like poor breeding practices to me.

As far as keeping my pits at home, I have the same right to bring my safe and controlled dog out in public that anyone else does with any other breed. There are things I don't like in life too but the world doesn't exist to please me so I guess I'll just deal, same goes for everyone else that walks the earth.

 

[mbills2223]

You (speaking generally) owe it to yourselves AND the thousands of dogs killed every year to get educated. As we would like anti-gun folks to educate themselves on firearms, we should be the FIRST crowd to want to truly educate ourselves about issues. Just think about how frustrating the ignorance of the gun grabbers is, and then realize that you may be acting the same way about a group of dogs...

Dog Bite Studies | National Canine Research Council

Scientific Studies | Stop BSL

Here are a few links for you all to get started. Yes, I understand that I'm providing links to websites that agree with my point of view, but they also both provide legitimate sources. I know you can send me links to dogsbite.org that will tell me how evil "pitbulls" are. Just think about how angry you get when people use the Brady Campaign website to make a case against guns...

 

[churchmouse]

They aren't prone to anything, not a fact. Your friend was a breeder and half of his dogs were messed up? Sounds like poor breeding practices to me.

As far as keeping my pits at home, I have the same right to bring my safe and controlled dog out in public that anyone else does with any other breed. There are things I don't like in life too but the world doesn't exist to please me so I guess I'll just deal, same goes for everyone else that walks the earth.

Did I say messed up...did you read that statement anywhere in my post. Only a few were messed up. I did not even say that. Read and repeat sir...read and repeat. He knew by their demeanor who he would sell them to. Loving parents....this dog. A$$bag thug wanna be....this dog. Something for everybody. Read and repeat.

Keeping them at home is different than letting them roam loose un-attended. I said not one thing about your rights. I said we had 3 whacked out strays in "MY" yard where my grandkids play. No leash...just crazy eyed mean a$$ aggressive pits. Where does that jump down on your rights.

It is obvious you are a lover of the breed. Most cool. You most likely care for your dogs and show them affection. Again, most cool. You do not come off as the pants down/loose lace tenny's/hat sideways wanna be we tend to see around here. I am tired of cleaning up their dogs crap from my yard.

Again....get over the butt hurt. It was not aimed at you or any other caring/responsible dog owner. It was my opinion and so stated.

Oh....I deal with life, everyday.

-CM-

 

[Suprtek]

Here's something to think about...if pitt bulls suddenly no longer existed, you would find a new breed that you likely never heard much about before suddenly responsible for the majority of dog bite problems. As long as there are idiot humans, there will be the "badass breed of the day" that is improperly treated and through no fault of its own becomes public enemy number one.

The fact that the dog has physical abilities that other breeds don't possess is not its fault. People find ways to abuse almost anything.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

"50 percent thing in his words" I did read.

sorry didnt realize that using facts as a basis for argument constitued "butthurt" which is another baffling ignorant word used by people who can't expand than minds to another's point of view. This entire topic is racism in it's most basic form. If someone doesn't like hearing racial slurs does that also make them "butthurt"?

 

[hoosierdoc]

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf

CDC is a decent organization too for tracking epidemiology. This was a study from 1979-1998. Mainly looked at deaths from dog bites. Pit bull-type led the pack. I'd be curious to see what percentage of domesticated dogs in the US are "pit bull-type" versus other dogs on there. Don;'t have those stats though.

At some point, it *IS* racism, because that is the race of dog that is killing people....

We are back to arguing that improper training leads to pit bull attacks. Is the argument that pit bull attacks are always the result of bad human training? I dunno.

 

[mbills2223]

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf

CDC is a decent organization too for tracking epidemiology. This was a study from 1979-1998. Mainly looked at deaths from dog bites. Pit bull-type led the pack. I'd be curious to see what percentage of domesticated dogs in the US are "pit bull-type" versus other dogs on there. Don;'t have those stats though.

At some point, it *IS* racism, because that is the race of dog that is killing people....

We are back to arguing that improper training leads to pit bull attacks. Is the argument that pit bull attacks are always the result of bad human training? I dunno.

See first link I posted above regarding the problem with dog bite "studies."

 

[Suprtek]

We are back to arguing that improper training leads to pit bull attacks. Is the argument that pit bull attacks are always the result of bad human training? I dunno.

I'd have to say that is a big part of it. However, its not JUST improper training, its also improper treatment. There is a difference. There is something to be said for the fact that pitt bulls possess the physical ability to inflict more damage than many other breeds. But if that is part of the basis of your argument, its a lot like saying that higher quality and sharper knives should be more difficult to possess than cheaper dull ones because people are more likely to get hurt. Although it may not be as publicized, it is well proven that a pitt bull type canine can be just as friendly and valuable a companion and pet as nearly any other breed. Pets are possessions. Just like many other possessions, there are different levels of quality and potential danger. Do you really want to open the argument that says just because a possession has the potential of danger if improperly used it should be restricted?