DNR Proposal for .243 and up rifle for deer season?

[Hookeye]

Tag prices aint diddly compared to fuel prices IMHO.

 

[singlesix]

Tiered price scale based on type of gun used, wonderful idea because we all know that taxing will control behavior. Hey why not have a tiered cost for LTCH based on type of handgun one plans to carry?

 

[Hookeye]

Pay to play.


As for that idea with LTCH....................eh, charge Taurus packers triple.

 

[bwframe]

Tag prices aint diddly compared to fuel prices IMHO.

Folks cannot go without fuel. They can go without deer hunting, apparently as evidenced by the revenue seeking?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Hey why not have a tiered cost for LTCH based on type of handgun one plans to carry?

Indiana had this, remember? I know you are old like me so you remember it.

Tiered price scale based on type of gun used, wonderful idea because we all know that taxing will control behavior.

Right, it does and no constitutional issues about the state charging fees for using its resources. Poachers can still be prosecuted but "safety concerns" can be addressed via training and testing.

Just an idea.

 

[beehunter]

My question then is why not create a Rifle Tag for those that wish to hunt deer with centerfire rifle? Maybe a class and a shooting test?

It would create additional revenue and mitigate the concerns of fellow hunters.

Do you honestly think that would be a good idea? If its a good idea for rifle hunters why not create a class and a test in order to bowhunt?

 

[spaniel]

In case you're interested population densities (which mean nothing since none of us hunt downtown or would ever hunt with a rifle in a housing addition

Pennsylvanias population density is nearly twice that of indiana, but then - as I said - most rifle hunters hunt where there are few to no people.

I totally disagree. Whenever I hunt out west I typically can't even see a house and it is very unusual to see another hunter in a whole week of hunting. Where I hunt in farmland Indiana....not even a flat place, and far from the density where I live....I can see more than a dozen houses and I have at least a dozen hunters within 800 yards of me. There is absolutely no logic in trying to compare the two simply because the terrain is passingly similar. Terrain is not the root of the concern. And little of Pennsylvania looks anything like northern Indiana.

As for "rifle friendly" culture, I love rifles and love hunting with them but that doesn't mean I think they are appropriate to use in every situation, especially when I still see people talking on and on here about how rifle bullets don't travel. Go watch them shoot tracers at night and see what many of those bullets do.

 

[spaniel]

My point is that you guys act like there are few people out there with high-powered rifles, while in fact there are many law breakers out there. Heck, we were discussing this very proposal at work this morning, and two guys said that they already deer hunt with rifles.

Your point, as you clearly stated, was that since people were already doing something illegal we should just make it legal rather than cracking down on law-breakers. That is awfully flawed logic in my opinion.

 

[M4Madness]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. And that's cool.

I understand that there are some that oppose this proposal for whatever reason, but I think we all know that when the DNR proposes something, it passes unless there is a HUGE public outcry, such as the proposal to shorten the firearms season a couple of years ago. The majority wants these rifles legalized, so there just won't be enough opposition to stop it. The whole PCR thing was just a test to see how things went.

1. Start with PCR's limited to 1.625" case length
2. Transition to more powerful PCR's limited to 1.8" case length
3. Transition to full-blown high-powered rifles

 

[Willie]

True but.. There was never any true PCR proposal. The DNR floated a straight wall pistol cartridge idea but before it got to fruitation
it became .357 and up with a case length of 1.625.

ive said all along the DNR wants full centerfires but was piece mealing them in..

 

[M4Madness]

I have the 162-page PDF document on my hard drive that contains all of the public input concerning the legalizing of PCR's for deer in 2007, but cannot for the life of me find it online. We're hearing the same stuff now that we heard then, and the sky didn't fall after PCR's were legalized.

Found the comments in a larger PDF:

http://www.in.gov/nrc/files/Report_2007.pdf#page=51


All 113 pages of them! LOL!

 

[M4Madness]

Here's the DNR's reasoning for legalizing high-powered rifles for deer:

The DNR believes this change can be made at this time for the following reasons:

•There are currently no limits on rifles that are legal to use for species other than migratory birds, deer, and wild turkey.

•Muzzleloaders have evolved to the point that with smokeless powder (which is legal to use), they are essentially a high-powered rifle (accurate 500 yard gun).

•They are legal in several nearby states, including Kentucky, Michigan (the northern part of the state), and Pennsylvania.

•There has not been an increase in hunting-related accidents as the result of the use of rifles, both in Indiana and in several other states where they are allowed.

•There isn’t a need to limit the equipment that can be used to take deer in order to manage the deer herd. The deer harvest was a record in 2012, and the DNR is managing the deer herd through other means.

•Rifle cartridges that fire a bullet at least .243 in diameter and have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches long can safely and humanely kill white-tailed deer.

 

[Dead Duck]

Here's the DNR's reasoning for legalizing high-powered rifles for deer:

The DNR believes this change can be made at this time for the following reasons:

•There are currently no limits on rifles that are legal to use for species other than migratory birds, deer, and wild turkey.

•Muzzleloaders have evolved to the point that with smokeless powder (which is legal to use), they are essentially a high-powered rifle (accurate 500 yard gun).

•They are legal in several nearby states, including Kentucky, Michigan (the northern part of the state), and Pennsylvania.

•There has not been an increase in hunting-related accidents as the result of the use of rifles, both in Indiana and in several other states where they are allowed.

•There isn’t a need to limit the equipment that can be used to take deer in order to manage the deer herd. The deer harvest was a record in 2012, and the DNR is managing the deer herd through other means.

•Rifle cartridges that fire a bullet at least .243 in diameter and have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches long can safely and humanely kill white-tailed deer.

But this is all common sense.







There's got to be a catch.......

 

[bwframe]

I totally disagree. Whenever I hunt out west I typically can't even see a house and it is very unusual to see another hunter in a whole week of hunting. Where I hunt in farmland Indiana....not even a flat place, and far from the density where I live....I can see more than a dozen houses and I have at least a dozen hunters within 800 yards of me. There is absolutely no logic in trying to compare the two simply because the terrain is passingly similar. Terrain is not the root of the concern. And little of Pennsylvania looks anything like northern Indiana.

As for "rifle friendly" culture, I love rifles and love hunting with them but that doesn't mean I think they are appropriate to use in every situation, especially when I still see people talking on and on here about how rifle bullets don't travel. Go watch them shoot tracers at night and see what many of those bullets do.

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.
4. Identify your target, and what is behind it.

 

[BStarkey 46947]

Simple question: Is the population density of people who do not understand shooting background and angles, bullet trajectory, and shot placement in Indiana higher than out West (where I have hunted), Michigan, Kentucky, or Pennsylvania? I doubt it.

The sky is not falling but I will wear a full blaze orange vest and hat moving forward.

 

[spaniel]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. And that's cool.

+1. Reasonable people can have different perspectives and respect each other.

After looking up the actual rules proposal and the language, I'd be surprised if it doesn't pass. Frankly, the most irritating thing about this is the piecemeal approach. If HPR was the goal, just do it. Don't have people buying new guns then change the rules every few years. I just had a 358 1.8" built after waiting several years to see how things worked out (matches the ballistics of my smokeless ML pretty closely but I'm tired of the weight and extra gear for regular firearms season). I could have built a 243AI with my own hands for a third the cost had I known this was coming. That said, on the property I hunt I may face more restrictive rules put in place by the property owner than the state.... I have no real need for further extension of my range, other than to move myself further to the center of the property while still reaching the same travel lanes and be further from the yahoos spraying and praying to the south of me with longer range bullets....

 

[spaniel]

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.
4. Identify your target, and what is behind it.

This reply to my post is pretty non-sensical. I've been present when bullets from a 300WM hit soft, plowed ground and traveled 1.5 miles downrange. When you hunt, do you know what is 1.5 miles downrange in a 45 degree arc either side of the line-of-sight to where you are shooting?

Almost nobody shoots with a solid backstop behind the animal they are shooting at. I've done a ton of shooting with all sorts of different weapons....HPR with non-varmint bullets certainly can take off further. Simple physics, higher BC + 30-50% higher velocity. It's not the direct fire that is concerning but the indirect fire (high-angle ricochets).

 

[spaniel]

Simple question: Is the population density of people who do not understand shooting background and angles, bullet trajectory, and shot placement in Indiana higher than out West (where I have hunted), Michigan, Kentucky, or Pennsylvania? I doubt it.

The sky is not falling but I will wear a full blaze orange vest and hat moving forward.

It is interesting that Michigan keeps getting brought up. I grew up there. Rifles are only allowed for any hunting at all in the northern part of the state that is almost entirely wooded. The higher density (both in terms of population and hunters) and far more flat/open terrain to the south has always been shotgun/ML (no smokeless) only and is only now allowing pistol rounds for 2014 (straight wall only). The area I came from is pretty rural but issues with people target shooting rifles and shooting up houses/barns/machinery with indirect fire were disturbingly common. When I moved down here and bought my property I did no rifle shooting until I had berms up as a result.

 

[bwframe]

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.
4. Identify your target, and what is behind it.

This reply to my post is pretty non-sensical. I've been present when bullets from a 300WM hit soft, plowed ground and traveled 1.5 miles downrange. When you hunt, do you know what is 1.5 miles downrange in a 45 degree arc either side of the line-of-sight to where you are shooting?

Almost nobody shoots with a solid backstop behind the animal they are shooting at. I've done a ton of shooting with all sorts of different weapons....HPR with non-varmint bullets certainly can take off further. Simple physics, higher BC + 30-50% higher velocity. It's not the direct fire that is concerning but the indirect fire (high-angle ricochets).

This explains a lot. No wonder you are arguing against center-fire rifles, if you aren't following the four rules of firearms safety.
The four rules don't have any caliber restrictions. Pretty simple; know where your bullet will stop or don't shoot.

 

[M4Madness]

I have no real need for further extension of my range, other than to move myself further to the center of the property while still reaching the same travel lanes and be further from the yahoos spraying and praying to the south of me with longer range bullets....

None of the many properties I hunt offer much of a long range shot, especially when you consider that I'm not a field sitter. I prefer wooded ridges to hay fields. I'm more into bowhunting, and some years I'm done before firearms season opens. My current deer gun is a suppressed 300 Blackout AR-15 pistol. It sure would be nice to put a stock and longer barrel on it. My shots will still be sub-100 yards.