Coronavirus II

[T.Lex]

Indy 500 rescheduled for August 23. Just in time for round 2.

 

[Brad69]

I have no idea what suicide or stupidity has to do with a large part of the population having a overblown fear of death in general and a overblown fear of a pandemic.
We are all going to die at some point I am not saying you should go around licking door knobs or endanger others but after a time life must go on if we stay shutdown to placate everyone we will go broke and won’t have a future.

 

[jkaetz]

I have no idea what suicide or stupidity has to do with a large part of the population having a overblown fear of death in general and a overblown fear of a pandemic.
We are all going to die at some point I am not saying you should go around licking door knobs or endanger others but after a time life must go on if we stay shutdown to placate everyone we will go broke and won’t have a future.

Yes but you're speaking logically not emotionally. Those of us that aren't ruled by emotions see this. Sadly we're not the loudest voice.

 

[CampingJosh]

I have no idea what suicide or stupidity has to do with a large part of the population having a overblown fear of death in general and a overblown fear of a pandemic.
We are all going to die at some point I am not saying you should go around licking door knobs or endanger others but after a time life must go on if we stay shutdown to placate everyone we will go broke and won’t have a future.

Everyone seems to be missing that a 6% death rate would result in a serious drop in consumer spending, which would itself crash the economy.

If keeping people healthy is bad for the economy, but letting them die is also bad for the economy, then maybe the economy isn't the factor that should be given priority.

 

[Alpo]

The market was made for people. It's a human artifact.

Sometimes people forget that.

People made for the market are called slaves.

 

[Cameramonkey]

**** this virus crap.
I'm moving to the north pole.

Good idea. Ice-o-late yourself from the rest of the world. LOL

 

[jamil]

I'm afraid you did say exactly that.


Everybody knows you know better, but..

surely you can detect intentional hyperbole to make a point. Obviously Trump has advisors who give him information. But, obviously he often seems to prefer the sensational information. He’s done that long before he became president. He was a 911 truther at one point. A birther at one point. That bent towards sensationalism does not serve him. And it does not serve us. I really would prefer if he’d just knock that **** off. I’d rather some bull**** website not have any influence on decision-makers. But we can’t have nice things, now can we.

 

[maxwelhse]

Everyone seems to be missing that a 6% death rate would result in a serious drop in consumer spending, which would itself crash the economy.

If keeping people healthy is bad for the economy, but letting them die is also bad for the economy, then maybe the economy isn't the factor that should be given priority.

I'm only playing devil's advocate here, but when the majority of the 6% are already approaching life's exit, they're probably not boosting the economy much to begin with by way of consumer spending. Most old folks are lucky to get by at all.

That is not intended to be a pro/con "kill the old folks" thing... Just saying that if the death toll gets that high, it may not have the impact you think it would. Now if that 6% was concentrated at mid-lifers who are in the peak of their earning and spending years, yes, that would be a problem.

 

[Brad69]

The North Pole is ran by a dictator that has a population of small people under his control.

 

[Alpo]

I'm only playing devil's advocate here, but when the majority of the 6% are already approaching life's exit, they're probably not boosting the economy much to begin with by way of consumer spending. Most old folks are lucky to get by at all.

That is not intended to be a pro/con "kill the old folks" thing... Just saying that if the death toll gets that high, it may not have the impact you think it would. Now if that 6% was concentrated at mid-lifers who are in the peak of their earning and spending years, yes, that would be a problem.

I think you should take some time in isolation to test your assumptions against the data.

You'll likely be very surprised. It might even change your mind.

One of the reports from the UK indicated that a significant amount of the volunteer work was performed by the elderly. Unpaid, but necessary, labor.

And who is it, do you think, who buys the cruises on CCL? You want to take the elderly out of your vacation stocks and we'll here next about how CCL crashed again.

 

[jkaetz]

Everyone seems to be missing that a 6% death rate would result in a serious drop in consumer spending, which would itself crash the economy.

If keeping people healthy is bad for the economy, but letting them die is also bad for the economy, then maybe the economy isn't the factor that should be given priority.

I have a hard time believing that 6% would have impacted the economy as severely as shutting down all of our service industries. I do believe it would have an impact, but nothing to this level.

 

[CampingJosh]

I'm only playing devil's advocate here, but when the majority of the 6% are already approaching life's exit, they're probably not boosting the economy much to begin with by way of consumer spending. Most old folks are lucky to get by at all.

That is not intended to be a pro/con "kill the old folks" thing... Just saying that if the death toll gets that high, it may not have the impact you think it would. Now if that 6% was concentrated at mid-lifers who are in the peak of their earning and spending years, yes, that would be a problem.

When "devil's advocate" has you advocating for passive genocide, maybe you should just let him advocate for himself.

The majority of elderly people spend 100% or more of their income. That is a lot of consumer spending.

 

[maxwelhse]

And who is, do you think, who buys the cruises on CCL? You want to take the elderly out of your vacation stocks and we'll here next about how CCL crashed again.

RCL is the old folks line, generally... Just sayin'.

 

[CampingJosh]

I have a hard time believing that 6% would have impacted the economy as severely as shutting down all of our service industries. I do believe it would have an impact, but nothing to this level.

6% forever vs. 30% for two months. Which one comes out ahead after a year?

 

[Alpo]

It's a better group of ships. And better service. But you aren't really disagreeing with me.

 

[maxwelhse]

When "devil's advocate" has you advocating for passive genocide, maybe you should just let him advocate for himself.

The majority of elderly people spend 100% or more of their income. That is a lot of consumer spending.

I guess the explicit warning that I wasn't advocating for anything didn't convince you, so I'll say it again: I'm not advocating we go murder all of the old people.

My point was that the consumer spending of the elderly vs. specifically middle agers isn't even a contest. if the death toll goes as high at 6%, the current data suggests most of those folks will be elderly, therefore the economic impact you're predicting likely won't be as severe as you fear.

That is all I'm saying. Not "Go kill all the old people." You wanna read back through the 700 or so pages of CV you'll see me be very "let's not kill lots of people, regardless" in my positions.

 

[jamil]

I have ample evidence before me to conclude that the Democrats in positions of power will stop at nothing and stoop to anything to regain power. I have ample evidence that federal and state governments can wield far too much power under the guise of an 'emergency'. I have evidence that those same Democrats would like even more government power over all aspects of our lives. I have evidence that while he is not perfect, Trump is a far better choice to wield that power than any other choice on offer; and I have evidence that when we are past this crisis reining in the power of government should be high on my list of priorities

IMO working with the Dems is akin to working with the Russians in The Two. We can accomplish some common goals against a common enemy, but I don't see us ever becoming friends. There are still teams, there is just a temporary truce. People who are nostalgic for 'working across the aisle' but were appalled at Pelosi and Schumer trying to get things they could never marshall the votes for, they don't remember that that is what 'working across the aisle' looked like

The message wasn't that we should all work together. The message was that the facts are what they are regardless of what team you're on. Aside from perception, there isn't one set of facts for your team, and another set of facts for the other. There are facts. And we need to be as diligent to uncover the ones that disagree with our side as we are to uncover the ones that are favorable. For example, China being less motivated to uncover facts which show them in a negative light. But boy are they eager to uncover facts that make others look bad. That's what I'm talking about. We're way past your meaning. The politicians just don't know it yet.

 

[tsm]

Everyone seems to be missing that a 6% death rate would result in a serious drop in consumer spending, which would itself crash the economy.

If keeping people healthy is bad for the economy, but letting them die is also bad for the economy, then maybe the economy isn't the factor that should be given priority.

Ignoring the fact that a lot of the 6% is likely to be older folks who aren’t the heavier consumers, wouldn’t you prefer a 6% drop in consumer spending vs. more like 50-75% if everyone’s sheltering in place and their jobs are going away permanently? The former might cause a recession while the latter would certainly be a depression.

 

[maxwelhse]

It's a better group of ships. And better service. But you aren't really disagreeing with me.

True. In general, I'm pretty pro "let's not kill Alpo" in this thread, regardless of cruise stock...

 

[chipbennett]

And who is it, do you think, who buys the cruises on CCL? You want to take the elderly out of your vacation stocks and we'll here next about how CCL crashed again.

Last I checked, the average age of the cruise market was in the range of 40-50 years old.