Cops dont necessarily know jack about guns.

[Cameramonkey]

Bill, dont forget other hoops that we had to jump through, it wasnt just Evansville and Terrible Haute. Back in the 90s, Sheriff Anderson (thank God he's gone) would require that all applications in Marion County be typewritten. His office attached a special instruction sheet giving details on exactly how to fill out the forms, and his workers would take a sharpie and black out "or neatly printed" everywhere on the form. So it only said "typewritten".

Apparently if you werent smart enough to locate a typewriter, you werent smart enough to ask permission to carry a gun in Marion County. During a visit to the ISP office in the State office building to change my address one day, I asked the ISP lady why they (ISP) did that. Her response was "Ask Sheriff Anderson. Marion county is the only county with that requirement, see!" (as she held up an obviously handwritten multipart app from her desk across the room)

But Thats not a dig on any current LEOs here. That was a jackwagon that really didnt want just anyone carrying.

 

[phylodog]

He was an incompetent buffoon in every sense of the word.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Bingo. If we were to wipe ALL laws off the books every few years, and re-apply the ones that we REALLY need how many laws would we have? Certainly a more manageable number.

As long as we have one to keep those internet weirdos from carrying guns at the zoo! Seriously, though, I'm not sure I'm on board with that idea. See... The more laws they pass, the more chances they have of throwing in zingers like "may issue" or "if the person shows good cause" or even "may possess in the person's home provided safe storage is provided, subject to police verification." Make a mandatory number of repeals, or a mandatory percentage of the laws being passed, and we might get somewhere, but even then, the mandate would have to specifically exclude from repeal any portion of a law that itself allows for the lawful exercise of a natural right.

Bill, dont forget other hoops that we had to jump through, it wasnt just Evansville and Terrible Haute. Back in the 90s, Sheriff Anderson (thank God he's gone) would require that all applications in Marion County be typewritten. His office attached a special instruction sheet giving details on exactly how to fill out the forms, and his workers would take a sharpie and black out "or neatly printed" everywhere on the form. So it only said "typewritten".

Apparently if you werent smart enough to locate a typewriter, you werent smart enough to ask permission to carry a gun in Marion County. During a visit to the ISP office in the State office building to change my address one day, I asked the ISP lady why they (ISP) did that. Her response was "Ask Sheriff Anderson. Marion county is the only county with that requirement, see!" (as she held up an obviously handwritten multipart app from her desk across the room)

But Thats not a dig on any current LEOs here. That was a jackwagon that really didnt want just anyone carrying.

I know nothing of that Sheriff Anderson. When I made initial application for my LTCH, I had a very easy time of it. I filled out my form, took it to Sheriff "Smokey" Anderson's office in Tippecanoe Co., got printed, and the form sent in under a half hour. The clerk who handled the LTCHs, Gloria, was efficient, personable, and to say competent is an insulting understatement. (Evidence: I have not seen her in about 6 years and I still know her name. I've met her a total of three times.)

Tippecanoe's Sheriff Anderson served well, with distinction. When I made my application, I spoke with him briefly... admittedly, I knew him from a few scenes we had worked together (with me on the EMS side) so the meeting was probably more personal than related to the LTCH, but I didn't get the sense that he was at all anti. I'm saddened, but not in the least surprised that there were (and probably are) several CLEOs around the state that stand against the 2A... unless you're "professional enough".

[video=youtube;S7ufT_6Kgy0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ufT_6Kgy0[/video]

For Evansville, it took the attention of a State Senator and the resultant attention of ISP to get EPD to "knock it off". I don't remember what it took to change what THPD was doing. Again, last I heard, IMPD still had their superfluous and IMHO illegal requirements in place.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I just read through this thread, and these thoughts came to mind:



What would be the proper response to the officer instead of allowing that "oopsie", or alternatively, to the citizen who legitimately violated the law? Should the former be punished somehow, or the latter not?

First, we need some serious repeal of laws which need not exist in the first place. After that, we need rid of the double standard. As far as I am concerned, a law enforcement professional could reasonably be held to a higher standard than a layman. After all, I am expected to know and follow to perfection every law on the book in addition to having an adequate understanding of my profession, where the law IS the lawman's profession, thus allowing him to do the same homework only once and use it a second time. That said, I would settle for equal treatment with a consistent standard whichever way it might work out, so long as there is either one law for everyone or no law.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

If there are too many laws for Law Enforcement Officials to keep track of, then how are ordinary citizens supposed to know them all?

^^^THIS^^^

There are too many laws, period. It's our own fault for electing too many lawyers to legislature.

 

[seedubs1]

Pretty tough to say that with a strait face when we have so many laws on the books that it's literally impossible to not be ignorant of the majority of them.

“The more laws and order are made prominent, the more thieves and robbers there will be.”
― Lao Tzu

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 

[jsharmon7]

I'm good with eliminating all "self-protection" laws, i.e. adult seat belt laws, most drug laws, etc. I do agree there are way too many laws, and then case law which defines how to interpret those laws. There are traffic laws out there I would wager most people don't even know exist. How far in advance you have to signal a turn, which lane you can turn into when making a right turn vs. left turn, bumper height, license plate display, etc. Everything related to a car is spelled out somewhere.

 

[DRob]

How can we expect them to be aware of all the nuances, nevermind the terminology, of every gun-related law if they are not members of that bastion of all knowledge, INGO.

 

[r3126]

I just went through training on how I should treat gays, lesbians, transgendered and queer people. [/QUOTE

I thought that "queer people" was all inclusive.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I just went through training on how I should treat gays, lesbians, transgendered and queer people. [/QUOTE

I thought that "queer people" was all inclusive.

That is SOOOOOOOOOOO last year. Now EVERYONE gets their own letter. Its no longer "gay" or LGBT, its now LGBTQIA.

These whiny sh**s make the Glock/1911 and OC/CC folks look tame.

 

[HoughMade]

...I just went through training on how I should treat gays, lesbians, transgendered and queer people. This is of course on top of the training I've already had on how we should treat Sikh's, Muslims, Hispanics and Burmese....

If the training went much beyond: "like everyone else." We may have lost sight of what "equal in the eyes of the law" means.

 

[r3126]

That is SOOOOOOOOOOO last year. Now EVERYONE gets their own letter. Its no longer "gay" or LGBT, its now LGBTQIA.

These whiny sh**s make the Glock/1911 and OC/CC folks look tame.

OK..... Then as a white, anglo-saxon, heterosexual (attracted to the female sex), male; what are my letters?

 

[KLB]

OK..... Then as a white, anglo-saxon, heterosexual (attracted to the female sex), male; what are my letters?

Are you middle-aged yet?

If yes, you are the devil. If no, you are on your way to being the devil.

 

[r3126]

Are you middle-aged yet?

If yes, you are the devil. If no, you are on your way to being the devil.

Well past middle age! I guess you defined me.

 

[Cameramonkey]

OK..... Then as a white, anglo-saxon, heterosexual (attracted to the female sex), male; what are my letters?

Check your privilege sir, CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE!!!!!!

 

[phylodog]

If the training went much beyond: "like everyone else." We may have lost sight of what "equal in the eyes of the law" means.

Oh no, no, no, no, no... We cannot treat everyone the same, to do that would be to ignore the victim status so many have claimed.

 

[HoughMade]

Oh no, no, no, no, no... We cannot treat everyone the same, to do that would be to ignore the victim status so many have claimed.

Yeah.

To quote a great man: "We may have lost sight of what "equal in the eyes of the law" means.

 

[T.Lex]

... its now LGBTQIA.

Isn't that the guy that posts all the breaking news on INGO?

 

[foszoe]

Didn't read every post.....

There are several laws to be misunderstood. I would think the scenarios of encountering a citizen with a gun, which ones are threatening ie shots fired, domestic dispute etc vs a citizen handing over the pink slip would be high on the list of things to be covered.

I know if I was law enforcement, encountering firearms would be the scenario I would ask the most questions about.

 

[foszoe]

These are great points. I am now considering Transgender for myself after seeing how women's restrooms are cleaner and usually have chairs to sit in while you wait.

I get it. I would like for someone to find one, just one police officer in this country who is capable of meeting the expectations of any ten citizens fully and completely. Here on INGO, our priority is on firearms.
For others it's mental health issue recognition, diagnosis and treatment,
For others it's grief counseling,
For others it's expert crash reconstruction,
For others it's chemical addiction treatment,
For others it's domestic violence prevention and marriage counseling,
For others it's first aid and emergency medicine,
For others it's dog behavioral expertise,
For others it's juvenile counseling expertise,
For others it's cultural difference recognition and expertise,
And on, and on, and on, and on, and on....

I just went through training on how I should treat gays, lesbians, transgendered and queer people. This is of course on top of the training I've already had on how we should treat Sikh's, Muslims, Hispanics and Burmese.

There is quite literally no one on this planet capable of meeting the expectations people have (of everyone but themselves) today. Not just of the police but pretty much of anyone who holds a job. We're all just one slight misstep away from being at the bottom of the next dogpile of social justice warriors.