Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[jamil]

I think you don't realize the pain such suppositions cause. There are an awful lot of well meaning but imperfect people who truly want to rid this country of the blight of racism. So to suggest that they are closet klan is demoralizing at the very least.

This is the crux of why I've been very critical of Kaepernick's protests. Given the progress made, and the fact that most white people really do want to treat people like race doesn't matter. But then you have this guy saying he can't support the flag of a nation that oppresses black people? **** you Kaepernick. Then he tries to claim he didn't mean the whole country? Then continues kneeling? Because why? Why continue with the thing that is NATIONAL?

Now. I'd have nothing but respect for Kaepernick if he'd have just said, hey. I didn't mean to say the whole nation oppresses black people. I just want police brutality against black people to stop. I still respect my country. And I recognize it's not the nation that oppresses black people. So I'll find a more indicative way to express what I'm protesting.

I'd have defended him. I'd still not put him on a pedestal to be venerated as best citizen. But I'd have defended him. Saying you didn't mean something some way, while continuing to behave like you really did mean it. I'm just going to strongly suspect you really meant it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This is the crux of why I've been very critical of Kaepernick's protests. Given the progress made, and the fact that most white people really do want to treat people like race doesn't matter. But then you have this guy saying he can't support the flag of a nation that oppresses black people? **** you Kaepernick. Then he tries to claim he didn't mean the whole country? Then continues kneeling? Because why? Why continue with the thing that is NATIONAL?

Now. I'd have nothing but respect for Kaepernick if he'd have just said, hey. I didn't mean to say the whole nation oppresses black people. I just want police brutality against black people to stop. I still respect my country. And I recognize it's not the nation that oppresses black people. So I'll find a more indicative way to express what I'm protesting.

I'd have defended him. I'd still not put him on a pedestal to be venerated as best citizen. But I'd have defended him. Saying you didn't mean something some way, while continuing to behave like you really did mean it. I'm just going to strongly suspect you really meant it.

I asked you this question before, and I'm not sure if you answered it. Did the whole nation oppress Black people when MLK Jr, was marching?

 

[Birds Away]

Well, when people talk about how lucky black people in America, today, were to have ancestors that were kidnapped from Africa, brought here, and endure hundreds of years of slavery... without pushback, other than from the "resident black guy," I'm not all that convinced.

Someone actually posted that?

 

[jamil]

You keep harping about Kut getting "trolled", but I'm not sure that your own perceptions aren't tilting your opinion maybe just a little.

If someone put my picture up next to pictures of others, who were unsavory characters and said that I was "In their company", I'd want to have a "face-to-face conversation" with that guy (as Churchmouse says).

The meme doesn't outright say that Kaep is a sexual predator, but to say that it's totally off-base to think that, in my mind, shows your own mind-set. That meme was conceived so that the obvious implication could be denied.

I think that's a superficial way to think of it. Maybe that's your bias too. I look at PJW's meme, and that says to me, the media that venerated people who turned out to be sexual predators, now venerates Kaepernick. How valuable can that endorsement be?

Also, you have to consider the source. PJW is an internet troll, among other things. The meme is most likely meant to troll SJWs. That meme was conceived so that the targeted group would react just like they're reacting. That's just how the internet memes.

 

[jamil]

I asked you this question before, and I'm not sure if you answered it. Did the whole nation oppress Black people when MLK Jr, was marching?

Yes. I did answer. And yes. Institutional racism did exist then. It systemically oppressed black people. It doesn't exist now. It's illegal. There are now legal remedies if individuals try to oppress people abusing the power of government. It is no longer an institutional problem. It's now an individual problem, and requires individual solutions. I've said the same thing throughout this thread.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I think that's a superficial way to think of it. Maybe that's your bias too. I look at PJW's meme, and that says to me, the media that venerated people who turned out to be sexual predators, now venerates Kaepernick. How valuable can that endorsement be?

Also, you have to consider the source. PJW is an internet troll, among other things. The meme is most likely meant to troll SJWs. That meme was conceived so that the targeted group would react just like they're reacting. That's just how the internet memes.

I'd agree with you, except for his wording "Colin is in good company". I think that was his passive-aggressive way to insult Kaep more than GQ, while being able to say that he only meant to insult GQ.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Someone actually posted that?

Yes

 

[jamil]

Someone actually posted that?

I remember reading a conversation similar to that. I don't remember if I read it here though. But people have made the argument that the black people living in America today because of the slavery of their ancestors, are better off than if slavery hadn't existed and they lived in Africa.

The true thing about the statement is that even for the poorest people, Western civilization eliminates many of the existential problems of living outside of the West. We're not starving. We're not poor--any of us--by world standards. Nearly everyone living in the West has access to water, food, clothing, shelter, education. But, it's a problematic idea because it ignores the suffering required to get there, and it ignores the inequality Western civilization has treated them with throughout their time in Western culture.

 

[Birds Away]

Yes

I'm at a loss for words.

 

[jamil]

I'd agree with you, except for his wording "Colin is in good company". I think that was his passive-aggressive way to insult Kaep more than GQ, while being able to say that he only meant to insult GQ.

Oh no. It's clearly meant to insult both GQ and Kaepernick. But it's not racial. The same point could be applied to someone like Kieth Oberman, if he were actually a somebody of note in the news now for doing controversial things.

 

[Birds Away]

I remember reading a conversation similar to that. I don't remember if I read it hear though. But people have made the argument that the black people living in America today because of the slavery of their ancestors, are better off than if slavery hadn't existed and they lived in Africa.

The true thing about the statement is that even for the poorest people, Western civilization eliminates many of the existential problems of living outside of the West. We're not starving. We're not poor--any of us--by world standards. Nearly everyone living in the West has access to water, food, clothing, shelter, education. But, it's a problematic idea because it ignores the suffering required to get there, and it ignores the inequality Western civilization has treated them with throughout their time in Western culture.

The massive cost in lives and suffering totally invalidates this argument and puts it among the most ignorant things I have ever read.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Oh no. It's clearly meant to insult both GQ and Kaepernick. But it's not racial. The same point could be applied to someone like Kieth Oberman, if he were actually a somebody of note in the news now for doing controversial things.

Yes, I do agree with that. Here I am trying to concentrate on two things at once. I thought that the argument was whether or not PJW meant to equate or compare Kaep with the two "bad guys" he was pictured with.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Oh no. It's clearly meant to insult both GQ and Kaepernick. But it's not racial. The same point could be applied to someone like Kieth Oberman, if he were actually a somebody of note in the news now for doing controversial things.

If only the you were more even-handed when you decided when to point that out.... but you never are. So until that day, you're going to have to deal with me doing it, just like you deal with others doing it. The difference is, I'm going to get flack over it... which isn't really a bother.

 

[printcraft]

So time was making a comparison when...

I'm thinking that was long before hitler went full on genocidal maniac. So I don't see the equivalence.

Kut. Wow. You really did get trolled by a meme. Once again, isn't implying that Kut is a sexual predator. No one to my knowledge has ever accused him of that. That's utterly nonsense. It's not implying he's a criminal. There's nothing about that meme, except to a biased person, that should convey that meaning. You pulled that from thin air.

And hence the classic troll. A classic troll says something that has an obvious meaning to most people, but it's said in a way you know your opponents will take the wrong way, thus exposing their thinking.

LULZ

 

[indiucky]

Well, when people talk about how lucky black people in America, today, were to have ancestors that were kidnapped from Africa, brought here, and endure hundreds of years of slavery... without pushback, other than from the "resident black guy," I'm not all that convinced.

Hold on a minute.....You're black????

 

[indiucky]

Two guys accused of committing sexual assault crimes. What's Kap's crime?... oh right... brown skin.

By August (while working on the farm weekends) I am darker than Kap...As a child of the 1970's I have got to give him props on that Fro.........

CURSE YOU 1980's AND YOUR GHERI CURL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[femurphy77]

By August (while working on the farm weekends) I am darker than Kap...As a child of the 1970's I have got to give him props on that Fro.........

CURSE YOU 1980's AND YOUR GHERI CURL!!!!!!!!!!

A buddy of mine back in the day had the same parental lineage as CK, he was lighter skinned than me but did get his hair from his black father. Of course I'm considered "black" Irish whatever that is so maybe that's why I tend to darken up so easily without burning.

 

[indiucky]

A buddy of mine back in the day had the same parental lineage as CK, he was lighter skinned than me but did get his hair from his black father. Of course I'm considered "black" Irish whatever that is so maybe that's why I tend to darken up so easily without burning.

A kid I went to school with back in the day was a Ginger with freckles and had the best afro in school...I mean tight...Had to use a pick on it....

I did my DNA and had 6% trace from the Iberian peninsula.....My buddy said that is the R1b strand that is the same as the Basque have....My wife said that is where I got my olive skin from probably.....The Basque were the first Europeans and it is believed they went to Ireland and that is where the "black" Irish moniker came in....

Basically what we now call the Solutreans...They were in Europe during the last ice age while the rest came in after the ice receded..They believe the Solutreans went to the British isles, the Basque region of Spain and even North America...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis

Here is what they believed the Solutreans looked like back in the day...

 

[Kutnupe14]

Hold on a minute.....You're black????

Depends on the day... some days I'm more black than others. On those days, I pull out the beret, black leather jacket and hang around potential polling locations.

 

[indiucky]

Depends on the day... some days I'm more black than others. On those days, I pull out the beret, black leather jacket and hang around potential polling locations.

LOL....I remember seeing you there....Loved the leather jacket BTW....