Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[Kutnupe14]

And their conviction rate seems to be low.
Wonder if that's cause they're famous.
What ever happened to the player that knocked his girlfriend out cold right in front of the camera on an elevator?
Conviction?

I'm not sure what happened, but it appears he got probation.

 

[actaeon277]

https://criminallawyerinnj.com/ray-rice-assault-case-results-in-pretrial-intervention/


And I love how the article says he "allegedly" knocked his girlfriend out.

It was on video.

 

[actaeon277]

At the same time, Shaneen Allen had to have people from all over the country express outrage at her arrest before anyone stepped in
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-race-and-gun-control/?utm_term=.4c4cdd8c81fa

 

[Kutnupe14]

At the same time, Shaneen Allen had to have people from all over the country express outrage at her arrest before anyone stepped in
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-race-and-gun-control/?utm_term=.4c4cdd8c81fa

Seems we're diverging from the focus of where this conversation started. The NFL players didn't like being compared to prisoners. It was suggested that such was possibly a valid analogy. NFL players are arrested at a rate less than that of the average American, which seems to put to rest, when taken as a body, that the NFL-prisoner comparison as being valid. Interjecting a few specific instances of criminal wrongdoing does not make it true for the entire league.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

Seems we're diverging from the focus of where this conversation started. The NFL players didn't like being compared to prisoners. It was suggested that such was possibly a valid analogy. NFL players are arrested at a rate less than that of the average American, which seems to put to rest, when taken as a body, that the NFL-prisoner comparison as being valid. Interjecting a few specific instances of criminal wrongdoing does not make it true for the entire league.

NFL Players: You find a portion of us kneeling during The National Anthem disrespectful and offensive, then tough ****.

NFL Players: An owner used a decades old phrase that some of us find disrespectful and offensive. Oh, hell no you didn't!

I didn't realize that I should use people that hit the genetics lottery as my moral compass.

 

[rob63]

Seems we're diverging from the focus of where this conversation started. The NFL players didn't like being compared to prisoners. It was suggested that such was possibly a valid analogy. NFL players are arrested at a rate less than that of the average American, which seems to put to rest, when taken as a body, that the NFL-prisoner comparison as being valid. Interjecting a few specific instances of criminal wrongdoing does not make it true for the entire league.

I'm curious Kut, do you think the players were aware of what he actually said, versus what continues to be reported he said, when they reacted to it? I ask this because I have yet to see a news report, other than the talk here on INGO, that gives the full context of what he said. My first reaction when I heard he called them prison inmates was total puzzlement as to why an owner would have said that. It seemed inconceivable to me that someone in that position wouldn't realize the reaction that would get. Then, I heard what he actually said and it finally made sense because I could see he simply bungled an old saying. The older I get, the more often I mix metaphors myself. In his case, unless you believe he actually considers a prison to be an apt metaphor for the NFL, then you can't really say he actually intended to compare the players to prison inmates. Nonetheless, during the college games yesterday I continued to see reports of him calling them inmates as though he said it literally. I just can't help but wonder if the players knew what had actually been said when this blew up? I'm really at a loss as to what can be done to sooth the country while the media continues to behave the way they do. Whatever their motives, they just keep fanning the flames.

 

[jamil]

He obviously misspoke the age old saying, and I don't see how anyone could think he was calling th players prisoners or criminals.

At least not without calling his franchise a prison.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm curious Kut, do you think the players were aware of what he actually said, versus what continues to be reported he said, when they reacted to it? I ask this because I have yet to see a news report, other than the talk here on INGO, that gives the full context of what he said. My first reaction when I heard he called them prison inmates was total puzzlement as to why an owner would have said that. It seemed inconceivable to me that someone in that position wouldn't realize the reaction that would get. Then, I heard what he actually said and it finally made sense because I could see he simply bungled an old saying. The older I get, the more often I mix metaphors myself. In his case, unless you believe he actually considers a prison to be an apt metaphor for the NFL, then you can't really say he actually intended to compare the players to prison inmates. Nonetheless, during the college games yesterday I continued to see reports of him calling them inmates as though he said it literally. I just can't help but wonder if the players knew what had actually been said when this blew up? I'm really at a loss as to what can be done to sooth the country while the media continues to behave the way they do. Whatever their motives, they just keep fanning the flames.

I do... and I think they have every right to be upset with what he said. He's the boss, and the players are his employees. He's made a statement concerning all the players in the NFL, and most importantly those that are on the team he owns. If you're at work, and you do your job, and abide by the bosses wishes (i.e. not kneeling), would you take exception if he made negative sweeping generalization, to a third party, of his worker's performance, that included you? Does one simply say "well, he wasn't talking about me," and move on? That's one reason why I could see players being upset.

The next reason is fairly obvious. I think we can agree that "thugs" belong in jail or prison, right? It's not huge leap of the imagination for players across the league to see his "prisoner" comment as coming from the same place of ignorance. You can find plenty of sources that refer to players a "thugs," despite the general population being more "thuggish." I can see the players resenting this often repeated belief (i.e. Richard Sherman). It was a very unfortunate choice of words that were chosen, so I'm glad he apologized....kinda.

The last reason, is the dynamic it portrays between the owner and the players. He is not a warden, they are not prisoners, and the NFL isn't a prison. The owners aren't giving away jobs in the NFL out of the kindness of their hearts, they need and actively seek to employ the best athletes in the game. It's a one hand washes the other relationship. They both make millions off of each other. This particular owner's comment betrays that relationship.

 

[Birds Away]

Anymore I just wonder if anyone in the public eye thinks at all before they speak. I see the inflammatory things that are said and just wonder why, to what purpose?

 

[Kutnupe14]

NFL Players: You find a portion of us kneeling during The National Anthem disrespectful and offensive, then tough ****.

NFL Players: An owner used a decades old phrase that some of us find disrespectful and offensive. Oh, hell no you didn't!

I didn't realize that I should use people that hit the genetics lottery as my moral compass.

The above appears to to a misrepresentation of NFL players, in an attempt to try and indicate hypocrisy. While they have essentially stated that it's "tough ****" if people find their protests disrespectful and offensive, I have yet to see any of them attempt to silence those who have criticized their position. And as such, unless proof can be provided, they are fully entitled to criticize the position of anyone whose actions they find disrespectful and offensive.

So, is there any indication of the NFL players attempting to silence those who have criticized their position.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

That prison has a front door that is unlocked."Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya..."

 

[Dr.Midnight]

The above appears to to a misrepresentation of NFL players, in an attempt to try and indicate hypocrisy. While they have essentially stated that it's "tough ****" if people find their protests disrespectful and offensive, I have yet to see any of them attempt to silence those who have criticized their position. And as such, unless proof can be provided, they are fully entitled to criticize the position of anyone whose actions they find disrespectful and offensive.

So, is there any indication of the NFL players attempting to silence those who have criticized their position.

Has anyone tried to silence the players completely? The issue here is when and where they're voicing their concerns, not the message itself.

 

[jamil]

I do... and I think they have every right to be upset with what he said. He's the boss, and the players are his employees. He's made a statement concerning all the players in the NFL, and most importantly those that are on the team he owns. If you're at work, and you do your job, and abide by the bosses wishes (i.e. not kneeling), would you take exception if he made negative sweeping generalization, to a third party, of his worker's performance, that included you? Does one simply say "well, he wasn't talking about me," and move on? That's one reason why I could see players being upset.

The next reason is fairly obvious. I think we can agree that "thugs" belong in jail or prison, right? It's not huge leap of the imagination for players across the league to see his "prisoner" comment as coming from the same place of ignorance. You can find plenty of sources that refer to players a "thugs," despite the general population being more "thuggish." I can see the players resenting this often repeated belief (i.e. Richard Sherman). It was a very unfortunate choice of words that were chosen, so I'm glad he apologized....kinda.

The last reason, is the dynamic it portrays between the owner and the players. He is not a warden, they are not prisoners, and the NFL isn't a prison. The owners aren't giving away jobs in the NFL out of the kindness of their hearts, they need and actively seek to employ the best athletes in the game. It's a one hand washes the other relationship. They both make millions off of each other. This particular owner's comment betrays that relationship.

Kut, honestly. I think you have to already believe its about race to believe that. I first heard about what he said on twitter. I read the article. It sounded to me like he mixed metaphors. My first post on INGO about this was that. He said "inmates". Not prisoners. It's an obvious flub. And he basically said that in his apology. And his apology was very soon after he made the comment, when it first started blowing up on Twitter.

Not everything is about race that is propertied to be about race. You said yourself that one of the things that convinced you was the area of the country he's in. But aren't you doing the same kind of stereotyping that you're accusing him of doing? If you're right, he apologized for saying it that way. If you're wrong, then so is everyone else who's outraged by this.

So what if that outrage is really misplaced? And, maybe it's not misplaced, but before deciding to be that outraged, wouldn't you want more evidence than an ambiguous, seemingly misquoted cliché, juxtaposed with his region of the country? Do you have better reasons than those to be outraged? Share them if you do. Maybe I'll be outraged with you.

 

[jamil]

The above appears to to a misrepresentation of NFL players, in an attempt to try and indicate hypocrisy. While they have essentially stated that it's "tough ****" if people find their protests disrespectful and offensive, I have yet to see any of them attempt to silence those who have criticized their position. And as such, unless proof can be provided, they are fully entitled to criticize the position of anyone whose actions they find disrespectful and offensive.

So, is there any indication of the NFL players attempting to silence those who have criticized their position.

Well, the people on that side do. I don't follow every NFL player who kneels on twitter. And I haven't been everywhere they are, or hear every word they have to say about it. I'm not sure how you attempt to silence them other than joining in the mob to mass-shame them. But if they did, I'm not sure how in the mob we'd single them out. So, my only answer to that is, people on their side do try to silence those who criticize them.

I wonder why baseball doesn't have any kneelers? Well, one that I know of: the Oakland A's Bruce Maxwell. Who, btw, was just arrested for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, and disorderly conduct. It's probably a bull**** charge brought by racist cops.

You know, about stereotypes. It would help the South's stereotypical racist image if the people in the South would be overtly not racist. My experience in Missippi has shown some great progress in that area, though there's a lot further to go. Likely that principle about overcoming ones own stereotypical image could work in other areas as well.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

If one of the Colts players made an announcement that he had rented a room at the convention center, and after the game there would be a conference about issues affecting people of color today, I really have a hard time seeing anyone trying to shut that down. So far, unless I'm mistaken, there hasn't been one player attempt anything like this.

 

[jamil]

If one of the Colts players made an announcement that he had rented a room at the convention center, and after the game there would be a conference about issues affecting people of color today, I really have a hard time seeing anyone trying to shut that down. So far, unless I'm mistaken, there hasn't been one player attempt anything like this.

I hope it's an intellectually honest conference for both sides. I'd like to see an acknowledgement from the one side that there still is racial discrimination. And from the other side, I'd like to see an acknowledgement that it is an individual issue, not a systemic one. There may be some systemic solutions for the individual problem.

But there is no forward progression to an acceptable settlement without the two sides acknowledging what is real and what is only perceived. The country does not oppress black people and people of color. Some, perhaps many, individuals in positions of power, do oppress black people and people of color.

I'd also like to see an agreement not to choose spokespersons from the extreme ends of the sides. That's just not productive.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

I hope it's an intellectually honest conference for both sides. I'd like to see an acknowledgement from the one side that there still is racial discrimination. And from the other side, I'd like to see an acknowledgement that it is an individual issue, not a systemic one. There may be some systemic solutions for the individual problem.

But there is no forward progression to an acceptable settlement without the two sides acknowledging what is real and what is only perceived. The country does not oppress black people and people of color. Some, perhaps many, individuals in positions of power, do oppress black people and people of color.

I'd also like to see an agreement not to choose spokespersons from the extreme ends of the sides. That's just not productive.

Well said.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kut, honestly. I think you have to already believe its about race to believe that. I first heard about what he said on twitter. I read the article. It sounded to me like he mixed metaphors. My first post on INGO about this was that. He said "inmates". Not prisoners. It's an obvious flub. And he basically said that in his apology. And his apology was very soon after he made the comment, when it first started blowing up on Twitter.

Not everything is about race that is propertied to be about race. You said yourself that one of the things that convinced you was the area of the country he's in. But aren't you doing the same kind of stereotyping that you're accusing him of doing? If you're right, he apologized for saying it that way. If you're wrong, then so is everyone else who's outraged by this.

So what if that outrage is really misplaced? And, maybe it's not misplaced, but before deciding to be that outraged, wouldn't you want more evidence than an ambiguous, seemingly misquoted cliché, juxtaposed with his region of the country? Do you have better reasons than those to be outraged? Share them if you do. Maybe I'll be outraged with you.

I'm unsure of what you mean. I have no recollection of that, and would find it odd for me to make such a generalization. Which post are you speaking of?

 

[BugI02]

Seems we're diverging from the focus of where this conversation started. The NFL players didn't like being compared to prisoners. It was suggested that such was possibly a valid analogy. NFL players are arrested at a rate less than that of the average American, which seems to put to rest, when taken as a body, that the NFL-prisoner comparison as being valid. Interjecting a few specific instances of criminal wrongdoing does not make it true for the entire league.

Two thoughts occur, off the top of my head:

Perhaps those who empathize strongly with the NFL players indignation at being compared to prisoners could attempt to extend and expand that empathy to conservative Americans upset at being conflated with racists and white supremacists

Perhaps those who think the disparity in sentencing that they believe takes place in the courts, to whit that those with 'privilege' and resources get disproportionally more palatable legal outcomes for their transgressions; would apply that same concept to these privileged, resource-rich individuals as a possible explaination for why they are convicted at a much lower rate (perhaps starting with their college brushes with the law)

 

[d.kaufman]

Gotta love these protesters

MLB's Bruce Maxwell, who knelt during anthem, is arrested on gun charge | Fox News