Carrying in customers' homes

[giovani]

I really am not trying to be a troll or disrespectfull,but in on sentence it is just a simple tool to do a job and in the next it is something that has to be a carefully gaurded secret.
And to respond to Jack Burton yes I do carry in public,but someones private residence is not OUT IN PUBLIC.

 

[youngda9]

I really am not trying to be a troll or disrespectfull,but in on sentence it is just a simple tool to do a job and in the next it is something that has to be a carefully gaurded secret.
And to respond to Jack Burton yes I do carry in public,but someones private residence is not OUT IN PUBLIC.

On the flip side...why do you think it is something that has to be treated differently than any other item that I have that I'm not warning you about? Do you feel the same way about my defensive serrated 4" blade knife that you don't know about? What makes it necessary to disclose your carry status when you enter someone else's home? Does a homeowner have the similar obligation to tell all visitors of they are carrying? Do they need to tell everyone else that their are dangerous items in their house (knives, gunpowder, etc.)?

 

[Rookie]

I really am not trying to be a troll or disrespectfull,but in on sentence it is just a simple tool to do a job and in the next it is something that has to be a carefully gaurded secret.
And to respond to Jack Burton yes I do carry in public,but someones private residence is not OUT IN PUBLIC.

I said it was a tool. I never said it was a secret. Don't combine two opinions to try to make your point.

 

[Rookie]

If its just like a hammer then you could. Just walk in the house with it in your hand, no need of all this talk of deep conceal, aka sneaking it in

If I needed to use it then it would be in my hand. If I didn't, then it would be put away - just like my hammer!

 

[dailylc]

Why not just tell them from the start, i just don't see the need to be sneaky.
Tell them you carry for your protection ,and let them make an informed decsion so things don't turn ugly.

Do you open or conceal carry?

You must open carry everywhere you go, so everyone around you knows you carry a gun! Or you are being sneaky, according to you.

Oh! For the record, I do open carry from time to time. So don't go there.
I don't feel I'm being sneaky. I'm just protecting my personal interest. My Life!

James

 

[Jack Burton]

I really am not trying to be a troll or disrespectfull,but in on sentence it is just a simple tool to do a job and in the next it is something that has to be a carefully gaurded secret.
And to respond to Jack Burton yes I do carry in public,but someones private residence is not OUT IN PUBLIC.

And, do tell, just what behaviour do you expect from your gun in a private home that it normally doesn't do in a public setting?

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

I really am not trying to be a troll or disrespectfull,but in on sentence it is just a simple tool to do a job and in the next it is something that has to be a carefully gaurded secret.
And to respond to Jack Burton yes I do carry in public,but someones private residence is not OUT IN PUBLIC.

Ah so as I stated earlier, you are one of the, It's ok for me to carry around your family because it's in public but it's not okay for you to carry around my family because it's my home mentalities. Got it! At least your honest about living by a double standard.

 

[evsnova74]

I believe your position is a bit different from the OP who stated that he is a tradesman and that his weapon might be exposed to view while working in a customers home.

My comments go to the uncomfortable position that will occur when the home owner or his teen age daughter steeped in liberal society and education or should I say indoctrination notices that gun and starts getting hysterical about it then the person carrying the gun gets defensive and instead of trying to calm the conversation down to reasonable starts insisting that he has a right to carry.

By the way I also feel that having a right to carry is not a reason to carry. You carry for self defense and the right only facilitates that action.

Where did the part in red come from? Even if you didn't read the whole thread, and missed the part where I addressed the "their house, their rules" argument (which was said 2 times before that and at least 10 times since), that's no excuse for missing it in the first post. One more time:

I know it's not against the law or anything, but I'm curious to get some opinions on how I should approach carrying at work. I'm a self employed wood flooring contractor who does mostly remodel work, so I'm working in people's homes every day. I usually CC but the problem is that I'm bent over or on my knees a lot of the time (yeah yeah, get it all out of your systems LOL) and it's almost impossible not to print badly with my shirt tucked in, which doesn't stay tucked in long. And of course if I leave it untucked it just rides up and exposes grip after 1.5 kneeldowns. lol

Should I just not worry about it and if they say something, respectfully not carry in their house from that point on? Ask if they mind on the first day? Just don't carry in their house at all?

Some of my previous customers wouldn't have minded but on the other hand there have been a few that would have minded too. Just looking for different ways of thinking about it, perhaps some angle I hadn't looked at it from.

Now where in that post or in a single post since has anyone said that they would get defensive and argue about their right to carry? Or do anything but leave right away for that matter? You make valid points but lose almost all credibility when you use straw man arguments like that.

 

[evsnova74]

I have a question for those who would not want guns in their homes, would it be any different if it were in a locked box? Or would it have to be left in the van/truck no matter what? I'm just curious how many would deny the person working for them the right to protect themselves on the walk from the van/truck to your front door.

Some here would argue that we carry at all times, even at home, because home is where home invasions happen, or whatever our reasons. So my next question is, do home invasions not happen during business hours? (I agree with those who have mentioned nailguns and other lethal tools, but none of that will matter if the BG is armed with a gun...)

Oh and another tiiiiiny distinction that is unique to my trade is that it's highly skilled, and having a wood floor sanded is kind of a logistical ordeal. A lot of people would think twice before kicking us off the job and trying to find someone as qualified on such short notice... Obviously I would do everything I could to avoid being kicked off a job, after all, that check I might lose out on is why I do this work, but the customer doesn't hold all the cards... perhaps I should print out some "No guns, No wood floors" cards

 

[Rookie]

Feel free to carry in my house.

 

[inccwchris]

Really? Maybe the guys that think this way should signs up to that effect.

"No Firearms Allowed"

Doesn't that make you feel dirty? Why would you deny someone's right to a firearm for self defense while in your own home? You would be next to them in public and may or may not know they are armed. You go into THEIR place of business armed. I really don't see the difference.

***Someone being unsafe with a firearm is ENTIRELY different and I would quickly tell someone to hit the road if they were on my property and being irresponsible but that goes much further than firearms.

Your right to self defense and carry ends at my house doorstep. In public everyone has the right to be there as long as they legal. In public you can smoke, carry your gun, and fart as you please. The difference is in my own home it is not public domain. A business is. Anyone that comes into my home and does not ask me if they can bring their gun in will be asked to leave. Same as if someone comes in and just lights up a smoke, or helps themselves to the fridge without asking first. No one carries in my home without my permission. No one smokes in my home without my permission. No one will be in my home without my permission. If you did so, you can expect to not be paid because you brought an unauthorized weapon into my home. However, if you said "I have an LTCH, and am carrying a weapon, do you mind?" The answer would first be, oh what are you carrying, then may I see your LTCH so I know you have one? As long as they showed me proof that they were legal to carry and were up front about it, I have no problem with it. If they were to be found with a gun that I was not told about, they would be asked to leave my property immediately. That is my prerogative as a home owner and guardian of my castle. In short, no weapons in my home that I do not know about. How would you feel if I just walked into your home, sat down on your couch, lit up a cigarette and discussed the contract on something with you? Bet you would be a little miffed if you had a non-smoking household. I do ask strangers who come into my home if they are carrying any weapons, if they say yes I am licensed and am carrying a .45, I say ok thats fine, thanks for telling me, and feel free to keep it on your hip, ankle, shoulder rig, whatever. I do them the courtesy of informing them that my house is a smoking zone and if they wish to light up, please use an ashtray, coke can, bottle, etc etc. Would you just walk into someones home, light up your smoke and then drop ashes on the floor, or would you ask if you could smoke? Same thing, you want to carry a gun into my home, ask me to do so. I will normally grant your request(provided of course we have a show and tell session later). You come in and don't ask my permission, or don't tell me when I ask if you have a gun on you, we have a BIG problem. If you then proceed to bill me once I threw you out for lying to me, then I'll see you in court. I will win, once the judge hears that when I asked if you had weapons on you and you lied to me then proceeded to enter my home, he will throw your case out of court. Same as if I said this is a non smoking household, no smoking and you lit up and got thrown out. You think a judge would side with you on that? The difference in on the street and in my home is simple. On the street, there are laws. If you break them, you go to jail. In my home there are rules, if you break them you leave.

 

[evsnova74]

Your right to self defense and carry ends at my house doorstep. In public everyone has the right to be there as long as they legal. In public you can smoke, carry your gun, and fart as you please. The difference is in my own home it is not public domain. A business is. Anyone that comes into my home and does not ask me if they can bring their gun in will be asked to leave. Same as if someone comes in and just lights up a smoke, or helps themselves to the fridge without asking first. No one carries in my home without my permission. No one smokes in my home without my permission. No one will be in my home without my permission.

Analogy fail.

Carrying a firearm in a customer's home = having a pack of cigs in your pocket in a customer's home.

Smoking in a customer's home without permission = being unsafe with a firearm in some way.

Those are 2 different things.

If you did so, you can expect to not be paid because you brought an unauthorized weapon into my home. However, if you said "I have an LTCH, and am carrying a weapon, do you mind?" The answer would first be, oh what are you carrying, then may I see your LTCH so I know you have one? As long as they showed me proof that they were legal to carry and were up front about it, I have no problem with it. If they were to be found with a gun that I was not told about, they would be asked to leave my property immediately. That is my prerogative as a home owner and guardian of my castle. In short, no weapons in my home that I do not know about. How would you feel if I just walked into your home, sat down on your couch, lit up a cigarette and discussed the contract on something with you? Bet you would be a little miffed if you had a non-smoking household. I do ask strangers who come into my home if they are carrying any weapons, if they say yes I am licensed and am carrying a .45, I say ok thats fine, thanks for telling me, and feel free to keep it on your hip, ankle, shoulder rig, whatever. I do them the courtesy of informing them that my house is a smoking zone and if they wish to light up, please use an ashtray, coke can, bottle, etc etc. Would you just walk into someones home, light up your smoke and then drop ashes on the floor, or would you ask if you could smoke? Same thing, you want to carry a gun into my home, ask me to do so. I will normally grant your request(provided of course we have a show and tell session later). You come in and don't ask my permission, or don't tell me when I ask if you have a gun on you, we have a BIG problem. If you then proceed to bill me once I threw you out for lying to me, then I'll see you in court.

That's a little backwards actually. If I were to bill you after that (if that unlikely scenario were to actually play out I mean) you'd simply not pay, then it would be up to ME to sue YOU. I don't know the legality, I didn't see a "IANAL" in your post, but let's say -theoretically- I wasn't asked about it, it was found when half the work was done. They kick me off the job (then wait a month to get another company like mine in there, all the while their furniture is packed into the rest of the house and everything is in disarray, real smart there customer but I digress) and I bill them for 50% of the work done. What would happen in court? Does simply having an unauthorized firearm on me negate whatever work I had gotten done up to that point? That does't seem very fair. Again, that was strictly theoretical, just a question of the legality of this subject of which I'm ignorant. I'm not sure if that has been touched on in this thread.

I will win, once the judge hears that when I asked if you had weapons on you and you lied to me then proceeded to enter my home, he will throw your case out of court.

I still don't get where these straw man arguments are coming from. If a customer asked if I had any firearms that would be the best scenario IMO. Kinda solves everything. So who said anything about lying and entering anyway? I understand that by attributing such a weak argument to your opposition it makes it easier to "win" (whatever that's worth) but I don't see any good coming out of that tactic. No one in this entire thread said they would lie about having a firearm on them and enter someone's home anyway. I just don't get where this is coming from or why it helps you to present such an argument.

Same as if I said this is a non smoking household, no smoking and you lit up and got thrown out. You think a judge would side with you on that? The difference in on the street and in my home is simple. On the street, there are laws. If you break them, you go to jail. In my home there are rules, if you break them you leave.

Next time I'm getting work done I'll wait till their almost done, kick them off the job for wearing socks that I was not informed of, then when they try to bill me I just won't pay. Surely the judge will side with me, after all- they had an unauthorized item in my house without my permission. Where does one draw the line there? Unless the law's on your side specifically in regards to firearms,(which is entirely possible, again, I don't know the laws regarding this subject) that seems like a stupid reason not to pay for work that did in fact get done to your house. Seems kind of dishonest to me. If this unlikely scenario takes place on the first day then no work was done and there's no reason to bill them.

But we've already established that it's their house their rules, and if they ask me to leave I respectfully would, we're past that. No one needs to think of yet another way to say "their house their rules" and expect it to mean anything more for the 20th time. We know, and no one's arguing against it. We've covered that one. I really hope I don't have to respond to that one again, it's getting tiresome and borderline spammy.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Your right to self defense and carry ends at my house doorstep. In public everyone has the right to be there as long as they legal. In public you can smoke, carry your gun, and fart as you please. The difference is in my own home it is not public domain. A business is. Anyone that comes into my home and does not ask me if they can bring their gun in will be asked to leave. Same as if someone comes in and just lights up a smoke, or helps themselves to the fridge without asking first. No one carries in my home without my permission. No one smokes in my home without my permission. No one will be in my home without my permission. If you did so, you can expect to not be paid because you brought an unauthorized weapon into my home. However, if you said "I have an LTCH, and am carrying a weapon, do you mind?" The answer would first be, oh what are you carrying, then may I see your LTCH so I know you have one? As long as they showed me proof that they were legal to carry and were up front about it, I have no problem with it. If they were to be found with a gun that I was not told about, they would be asked to leave my property immediately. That is my prerogative as a home owner and guardian of my castle. In short, no weapons in my home that I do not know about. How would you feel if I just walked into your home, sat down on your couch, lit up a cigarette and discussed the contract on something with you? Bet you would be a little miffed if you had a non-smoking household. I do ask strangers who come into my home if they are carrying any weapons, if they say yes I am licensed and am carrying a .45, I say ok thats fine, thanks for telling me, and feel free to keep it on your hip, ankle, shoulder rig, whatever. I do them the courtesy of informing them that my house is a smoking zone and if they wish to light up, please use an ashtray, coke can, bottle, etc etc. Would you just walk into someones home, light up your smoke and then drop ashes on the floor, or would you ask if you could smoke? Same thing, you want to carry a gun into my home, ask me to do so. I will normally grant your request(provided of course we have a show and tell session later). You come in and don't ask my permission, or don't tell me when I ask if you have a gun on you, we have a BIG problem. If you then proceed to bill me once I threw you out for lying to me, then I'll see you in court. I will win, once the judge hears that when I asked if you had weapons on you and you lied to me then proceeded to enter my home, he will throw your case out of court. Same as if I said this is a non smoking household, no smoking and you lit up and got thrown out. You think a judge would side with you on that? The difference in on the street and in my home is simple. On the street, there are laws. If you break them, you go to jail. In my home there are rules, if you break them you leave.

I don't feel like taking the time to break down that huge post with no paragraph breaks so I will just say a few things I thought of while reading it.

1. You have to rely on ridiculous scenarios to get the situation to spin your way. If someone point blank asked me if I had a weapon I would say "Of course! Do you?" I OC every chance I get, I LIKE talking about guns with people and don't feel a bit weird if they know I have one, their property or not.

2. If you were to ask to see my LTCH out of curiousity I would happily oblige and teach you the steps to getting one. If you, as a private citizen wanted to verify that I had one to be legal I would laugh me ass off. If I am allowed to be there I wouldn't NEED an LTCH to begin with and I have no obligation whatsoever to prove to you I am legal. If its that big of a deal I doubt you would let me in anyway and if you did I guess you would call the cops and have them varify it.

3. You do know we are talking about a PROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIP here right? evsnova 74, myself and many others on this thread are professional remodelers, managers, salesmen etc. who people invite into their homes to perform work for them. There is already a form of trust built up there and it helps even more when you work for a company with a very good reputation. NONE of us would be rude or confrontational in one of our customers homes.

4. I don't understand why you have this big issue with other people being armed in your home. Do you really ask every single person if they have a gun? What are you afraid of?

5. What if you ask a person if they have a gun and they say no, but then they DO have one at a later date? Do you ask people every single time they come into your house?

6. You say LTCH but your screen name is InCCW, which is it?

 

[youngda9]

Analogy fail.

Agreed. Smoking(emitting toxic fumes in someone's home) and taking food from the fridge without asking(stealing), does not equate at all to carrying a firearm(not emitting anything, not stealing, just having the ability to help yourself return to your family in the evening).

It's been interesting hearing all these rationalizations for something that people really haven't though through. The only common thread is "my house my rules"...and the rules are not posted. Basically homeowner saying I'll kick you out if you offend my sensabilities, which is fine.

Nobody seems to have a decent reason, that can withstand any amount of scrutiny, for denying anyone their 2A rights simply because they are on your property.

It all comes down to someone's feelings being hurt because they weren't told, it seems. Hey, why does this bathroom have a couch in it...am I in the wrong place?

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

I don't feel like taking the time to break down that huge post with no paragraph breaks so I will just say a few things I thought of while reading it.

1. You have to rely on ridiculous scenarios to get the situation to spin your way. If someone point blank asked me if I had a weapon I would say "Of course! Do you?" I OC every chance I get, I LIKE talking about guns with people and don't feel a bit weird if they know I have one, their property or not.

2. If you were to ask to see my LTCH out of curiousity I would happily oblige and teach you the steps to getting one. If you, as a private citizen wanted to verify that I had one to be legal I would laugh me ass off. If I am allowed to be there I wouldn't NEED an LTCH to begin with and I have no obligation whatsoever to prove to you I am legal. If its that big of a deal I doubt you would let me in anyway and if you did I guess you would call the cops and have them varify it.

3. You do know we are talking about a PROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIP here right? evsnova 74, myself and many others on this thread are professional remodelers, managers, salesmen etc. who people invite into their homes to perform work for them. There is already a form of trust built up there and it helps even more when you work for a company with a very good reputation. NONE of us would be rude or confrontational in one of our customers homes.

4. I don't understand why you have this big issue with other people being armed in your home. Do you really ask every single person if they have a gun? What are you afraid of?

5. What if you ask a person if they have a gun and they say no, but then they DO have one at a later date? Do you ask people every single time they come into your house?

6. You say LTCH but your screen name is InCCW, which is it?

This had me LMAO! And now it will be my new signature!

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Basically homeowner saying I'll kick you out if you offend my sensabilities, which is fine.

Nobody seems to have a decent reason, that can withstand any amount of scrutiny, for denying anyone their 2A rights simply because they are on your property.

If it were this simple I would be fine with it. They all have these crazy scenarios to justify their position but it really doesn't explain WHY they feel that way.
If one of them would just say "Other people with guns scare me" then I could believe they thought it through and made a conscious decision based on their feelings.


BTW Logic > Feelings IMO.

 

[Jack Burton]

I do ask strangers who come into my home if they are carrying any weapons

1) I don't believe this statement

2) If the statement is true, then why does he only ask strangers? Does he believe that none of his friends have LTCs?

3) Has he personally communicated to each and every friend that they must have his permission before they carry into his house?

4) If a stranger says "no" and then walks back to the truck to get a different tool, is the stranger asked the same question again? Why not?

5) Does he allow guns on his property but not inside the home? If not, does he ask the meter reader, the newspaper boy and the postman if they have guns when they walk onto the property?

6) If he suspects someone is lying to him when they say "no" does he prone them out on the ground and do a full body search, including cavities?

 

[youngda9]

^^ Yes, someone's out to get me.

 

[inccwchris]

I don't feel like taking the time to break down that huge post with no paragraph breaks so I will just say a few things I thought of while reading it.

1. You have to rely on ridiculous scenarios to get the situation to spin your way. If someone point blank asked me if I had a weapon I would say "Of course! Do you?" I OC every chance I get, I LIKE talking about guns with people and don't feel a bit weird if they know I have one, their property or not.

2. If you were to ask to see my LTCH out of curiousity I would happily oblige and teach you the steps to getting one. If you, as a private citizen wanted to verify that I had one to be legal I would laugh me ass off. If I am allowed to be there I wouldn't NEED an LTCH to begin with and I have no obligation whatsoever to prove to you I am legal. If its that big of a deal I doubt you would let me in anyway and if you did I guess you would call the cops and have them varify it.

Refusal to show me your LTCH at MY front door before allowing you to enter will result in you not entering and being removed from the job I hired you to do

3. You do know we are talking about a PROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIP here right? evsnova 74, myself and many others on this thread are professional remodelers, managers, salesmen etc. who people invite into their homes to perform work for them. There is already a form of trust built up there and it helps even more when you work for a company with a very good reputation. NONE of us would be rude or confrontational in one of our customers homes.

I may have a professional relationship with you, but that does not mean I know or trust you inside my home to not have ill intentions

4. I don't understand why you have this big issue with other people being armed in your home. Do you really ask every single person if they have a gun? What are you afraid of?
I do ask every single person who is not a close personal friend or family member. I want to ensure that anyone in my home is legal to carry a weapon and knows how to use it if need be. Asking to see an LTCH from a contractor who wishes to carry in my home establishes that they are legal to carry their weapon

5. What if you ask a person if they have a gun and they say no, but then they DO have one at a later date? Do you ask people every single time they come into your house?

FWIW I ask if they have anything designed to be a weapon on their person every time they leave and return for the day

6. You say LTCH but your screen name is InCCW, which is it?

INCCW, I live in indiana, and have a concealed carry weapon. CCW=concealed carry weapon

In my home, its my rules. You have no say, just because the state says you can carry in public does not mean you have a right to have your gun in my home. If I so choose, I can tell you that you have to leave site to use a bathroom because mine is off limits. If I choose, I can say no rap music is to be played in my home while you are working. Its my house and my rules. Just because I choose not to let anyone in my home with a weapon that I do not personally know without checking to see if they have an LTCH does not make me afraid of anything. It is a measure that I have chosen to take to ensure my family's safety. Like I said, my home, my rules. Don't like it, don't come work on my property.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

Might try using an ink color that can actually be read next time instead of this that blends into the background.