Buying a rifle FTF without a LTCH

[LarryC]

I would certainly not have the criteria that you must hold a LTCH to purchase a handgun, rifle or shotgun from me. If I were to ever sell mine. There are many people I know that have a handgun in their home. In fact one of my sisters and Bil does - he brought the Beretta back from Italy during WW2. I know of other upright elderly people that keep firearms without having a carry license. I also know several hunters that don't have carry licenses. The ATF laws are very clear. You (an individual) may sell any firearm to anyone who is an Indiana resident over 18 years of age and that you DO NOT HAVE A REASONABLE CAUSE to believe they are not legally allowed to possess a firearm. If you have checked their DL and that proves they are an Indiana resident and over 18, and they seem sober, sane and tell you they are legal you have met your obligations under the law. I used to go into a few bars in my younger days - I have seen several firearms bought and sold. I sincerely doubt a felon would use the internet to purchase a firearm. To much possibility the seller may be an ATF agent, and it is so easy to buy in a bar or off a friend (probably a felon too).

 

[gregkl]

A gunshop will not sell me a rifle without a background check. As a private citizen I cannot do a background check on you easily so my asking to see your LTCH is an indirect way of conducting a background check. No one wants to sell a gun to a guy who kills someone or uses it in a crime. Don't be offended. You're dealing in potentially dangerous items and it's good to be cautious.

+1. I don't really sell guns, but I did sell one and asked to see the LTCH. He didn't seem offended and I have purchased one pistol and I showed mine.

 

[Colts]

Welcome

. . . Yet, many ads for the private sale of a rifle between two people with Indiana state drivers licences require also seeing an LTCH. Yes, the purpose is obvious, people think that having an LTCH is the end all be all proof that the buyer has passed certain scrutiny to carry a gun. Yes, its a nice and easy way for the seller to be certain But can there not be a fairer way to handle the legal purchase of a rifle without putting people like me out in the cold?

I'm fine with offering my ID for your scrutiny
I'm happy to have a quaint discussion so you can feel me out mentally
It's great to provide a bill of sale that I'll happily sign

But requiring a handgun license to purchase a rifle, I dunno.

Welcome to INGO!
Besides seeing DL and possibly a LTCH (I think it is a good idea), if you are trying to buy a rifle on INGO you need 50 Quality Posts ( and perhaps only one post regarding a rifle purchase during a FTF without a LTCH should count?).

I have seen some rifles go for far deals at auctions (they require background checks), the pistols all seem to go too high.

I think most would not be opposed to a dealer doing a background check if you paid for it.

 

[Tactical Dave]

Hmmm...everytime a person is pulled over, goes through a security check point, or lets their employer makes a copy of their DL they will be scrutinized. I have learned to keep my ltch in a seperate compartment in my wallet. I was pulled over once and couldn't figure out how the officer guessed I had a firearm on my person. Most people on here would rather keep that out of the equation.

Although the thought of being asked at the BMV

Do you want to be an organ donor?
Do you want to be a lead donor?

Might be worth it.

Good point on employer stuff.

 

[Sgtusmc]

Welcome to INGO!
Besides seeing DL and possibly a LTCH (I think it is a good idea), if you are trying to buy a rifle on INGO you need 50 Quality Posts ( and perhaps only one post regarding a rifle purchase during a FTF without a LTCH should count?).

I have seen some rifles go for far deals at auctions (they require background checks), the pistols all seem to go too high.

I think most would not be opposed to a dealer doing a background check if you paid for it.

im not referring to any ingo purchases, im saying its a common trend ive seen. Theres more than one website with gun classifieds.

 

[jy951]

If you sell someone a firearm and follow all laws, that may still not prevent a civil suit should something happen with that firearm. Weather or not the suit has merit, you will still need to get an attorney and it will cost you $$. It's just an added measure of "due dilligence" when selling. The person with no LTCH shouldn't have a problem then with going through an FFL if the seller pays or they split the fees. IMHO.

 

[92ThoStro]

I agree completely. I have an LTCH and carry with it every day. I will not show it to a seller, or contact a seller that requires one. I think it is ridiculous that they require it, as it does absolutely NOTHING but be annoying. Like I said in the other thread, I will gladly not buy from those requiring it, in protest, because there are many gun owners that own guns, or only long guns, and don't have an LTCH. Those owners far outnumber us LTCH holders I can assure you. We don't need to treat them like second class gun owners because they own but don't carry.
And like I said last time, it is just a pink piece of paper, most people have copies. It also has NO security features, as it is only made to hold your license number, and name, for easy LEO reference. If it was fake, an LEO can easily tell, not by the paper, but by checking the license number and name vs your drivers license. This means that anyone can fake an LTCH, who has access to a computer, and a printer. The hardest part to making a fake LTCH would be finding the right shade of pink paper.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

How many fellons do you think would take the time to register on a forum, then wait until they have 50 posts. Not to mention an electronic footprint.

 

[Sgtusmc]

How many fellons do you think would take the time to register on a forum, then wait until they have 50 posts. Not to mention an electronic footprint.

Hehe, true but theres some dumb ones, always making mistakes, rash decisions, trying to scheme their next scam.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I used to one you sold me this weekend and got a Coyote with it. 50 yard off hand shot to the base of the skull. .17 dropped it like a hot rock.

Thanks for seeing me as a right person.

I had been drinking and was exhausted from the 15 MPH drive I took the day before. I asked Rookie to report you

And I just needed the money before that guy figured out his gun was missing

 

[BKExpress]

I think that many people will relax this requirement after speaking/meeting with someone or if they can legitimize themselves within a forum like INGO. If the ad says you must show LTCH, but you really want the item just make contact and explain your situation. If they don't want to sell just be patient and you'll have another opportunity soon. I was asked to show my DL and LTCH once when buying a muzzleloader and I flatly refused on principle only. I explained that I had both but was not going to produce for his records when buying a black powder gun. Turns out he was just extremely nervous and had no idea what the law was. I will say that my thoughts surrounding handguns are different.

 

[LPMan59]

I do not buy from sellers that post "ltch required" whether I have had one for 20+ years or not. However, do it the right way and meet at a lgs and pay(buyer or seller) $15-25 for a transfer. Who the hell knows if that pink piece of paper is legit or not....

the right way?


for a lot a people, this defeats the point of a private sale. Just sayin.

 

[mistap]

A gunshop will not sell me a rifle without a background check. As a private citizen I cannot do a background check on you easily so my asking to see your LTCH is an indirect way of conducting a background check. No one wants to sell a gun to a guy who kills someone or uses it in a crime. Don't be offended. You're dealing in potentially dangerous items and it's good to be cautious.

So, what "proof", pray tell, do you ask for when selling a used car, or a hammer or cake mixer?

 

[RabbleRouser]

most guys will ask to see LTCH just to be sure they are not putting a firearm in the hands of a felon, the reason you dont need to do this for a gunshop purchase is that they do a NICS background check

 

[Miller Tyme]

Ok, this might get me flamed but here goes. I'm all for NOT letting the bad guys get the guns, especially in a FTF deal. BUT.... There are some of us gun owners who purchase their guns solely for home defense, at least for now, and dont wish to be fingerprinted and put on a list by getting an LTCH. That said, I follow the law and the guns stay in the home.

Now the problem. According to Indiana state law, the following holds true:

Permit needed to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.
Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.
Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.
Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.

Therefore, all I need is my ID to prove my residence and age and the cash.
By law, you dont need any more than I'm required to provide to make a purchase.

Yet, many ads for the private sale of a rifle between two people with Indiana state drivers licences require also seeing an LTCH. Yes, the purpose is obvious, people think that having an LTCH is the end all be all proof that the buyer has passed certain scrutiny to carry a gun. Yes, its a nice and easy way for the seller to be certain But can there not be a fairer way to handle the legal purchase of a rifle without putting people like me out in the cold?

I'm fine with offering my ID for your scrutiny
I'm happy to have a quaint discussion so you can feel me out mentally
It's great to provide a bill of sale that I'll happily sign

But requiring a handgun license to purchase a rifle, I dunno.

Did you ever think the seller might be looking out after his and his families intrest by requiring a LTCH. Remember the same paranoia that keeps you from getting your LTCH, is similar to what the seller is thinking ( big brother, criminal charges, law suit)

 

[BKExpress]

So, what "proof", pray tell, do you ask for when selling a used car, or a hammer or cake mixer?

Really? The guys that ask for this are protecting themselves from liability. For example a lot a guys aren't selling for beer money on Friday to anyone that has the requested funds. Some people actually have assets they want to protect.

 

[Sgtusmc]

Did you ever think the seller might be looking out after his and his families intrest by requiring a LTCH. Remember the same paranoia that keeps you from getting your LTCH, is similar to what the seller is thinking ( big brother, criminal charges, law suit)

Did I ever think? I state pretty clearly that I understand the reasoning. Also I take offense to being called paranoid. I'm a Marine combat veteran. I have a certain bit of experience in regards to war, guns and the government. To some its called situational awareness. Others call it hyper vigilence. The media, psycho thereapist wannabes, and the uninitiated call it paranoia.

Also, theres nothing keeping me from getting my ltch besides time, money, and principle. The worry of it ever being used against me somehow is merely a mild hinderance.

 

[williamsburg]

Someone could make one that looks very real if they wanted to... Honestly they should make it plastic like a DL and have security featured that are hard to duplicate.... I saw a WI Carr liscence and it is plastic and If I remember right has your picture.

Tennessee has one like that too. Looks just like the under 21 Indiana ID. Vertical not horizontal.

 

[Tactical Dave]

most guys will ask to see LTCH just to be sure they are not putting a firearm in the hands of a felon, the reason you dont need to do this for a gunshop purchase is that they do a NICS background check

What everyone is getting at is that there is no way to know I it is not a fake or if it is valid... If you get your revoked I doubt the cops will come asking for it and if they do people make copies....

 

[jy951]

What everyone is getting at is that there is no way to know I it is not a fake or if it is valid... If you get your revoked I doubt the cops will come asking for it and if they do people make copies....

Doesn't matter if it's fake or not. When you're standing in court being sued for selling a felon a gun, your best defense would be something like "I looked at his drivers license and he had a LTCH" so a reasonable person would believe he was not prohibited from owning a gun.