Buying a rifle FTF without a LTCH

[jy951]

The purchaser will always "rat you out." They have no interest in your well being and have no reason to have any loyalty to you. The purchasers attitude would probably be you shouldn't have sold it to me in the first place.

You are not making any sense with this. If I sell a gun and the purchaser uses it in a felony they (LEO) can not trace it to you un-less the purchaser rats you out or you bought it new and even then they most times do not track it. Un-less something really crazy happens the seller is most likely not involved.
Again...not saying it is safe/proper to sell to a felon or any questionable person. If you do a FTF and he looks like the theater shooter (obviously a troubled individual) you can change your mind and I have. Beyond that it is a private sale. JMHO. Do as you will. If that worried put your guns in a LGS on consignment and let them deal with the public. Simplest answer to the paranoid sellers fears.

 

[Mosinguy]

When we go to buy guns FTF we usually require a LTCH and the other guy does as well. However when we actually meet and the guy looks ok everyone seems to forget to show that pink slip. I think wanting to see a LTCH scares off the "bad guys".

 

[Hotdoger]

How many fellons do you think would take the time to register on a forum, then wait until they have 50 posts. Not to mention an electronic footprint.

Don't kid yourself. ATF is on INGO posing.

 

[Mosinguy]

Don't kid yourself. ATF is on INGO posing.

...as 17 year old boys who have nothing better to do than post all the time.

 

[Tactical Dave]

You only have 21 posts at this time, therefore you should not even be using the classified section of INGO.

We don't know you. We don't know anything about you. When you get 50 quality posts, come back, then maybe someone will sell you a long arm without a LTCH. Maybe. But not me.

I wish to purchase a firearm from you.... Many on here know me... I may crop dust you soni wish to just wire transfer you the money... In exchange I will also send you a package that is for you but was incorrectly mailed to me...

 

[loony1]

the right way?


for a lot a people, this defeats the point of a private sale. Just sayin.

bring it on.....

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I don't want to make this more complicated than it is BUT I don't want us poor, little, extreme minority of C&R holders to be overlooked.

I have my FFL03 C&R license. Most of my firearms were purchased on my C&R. If any C&R holder were to sell you a firearm that they had used their C&R license to purchase they must by Federal Law record the buyers name and address.

Also, if I purchase a C&R firearm I must record the sellers name and address. Basically, no matter what we C&R holders do, buy or sell, we must record the basic information in our bound books IF the weapon involved is a C&R weapon.

I say this only so that there is no omission of facts here. I don't want someone to meet a C&R holder two (2) years down the road and think he/she is full of nonsense when they need to record personal information.

Some may ask why I would go through the hassle? The simple answer is that as long as I am dealing with a FFL01 or another C&R holder I can simply buy, sell and ship anywhere in the United States without having to do anything else! If I sell a Mosin Nagant to a collector in Maine all he has to do is mail me the check and a copy of his C&R and I ship him the rifle with a copy of my C&R. It can arrive at his doorstep or local UPS for pickup at his choice. No muss no fuss.

Regards,

Doug

 

[cerebus85]

Its a personal judgement call. INGO has not failed me yet. armslist i have declined

 

[churchmouse]

The purchaser will always "rat you out." They have no interest in your well being and have no reason to have any loyalty to you. The purchasers attitude would probably be you shouldn't have sold it to me in the first place.

This is why I only use ingo for my FTF personal sales. Yes, you are right as there is little to no honor these days so I stay with this forum. It is also not all that difficult to size someone up during the negotiations.
That said....again, you are not responsible for anything done with the gun after you sell it just like a bat, car, bicycle etc. I understand the paranoia folks have with all of this but like I stated before, if that is the case do not sell the gun yourself. Use a LGS for this. Asking for my LTCH is not an option unless you have a badge and I am in the wrong.
Just because someone shows you the "Pink" does not mean they are a right person. Folks are getting suspended every day for stupidity.
We can argue this all day. A persons personal feelings are just that. I and many others think it is silly to do this for all the reasons I stated.

 

[churchmouse]

To All,

I don't want to make this more complicated than it is BUT I don't want us poor, little, extreme minority of C&R holders to be overlooked.

I have my FFL03 C&R license. Most of my firearms were purchased on my C&R. If any C&R holder were to sell you a firearm that they had used their C&R license to purchase they must by Federal Law record the buyers name and address.

Also, if I purchase a C&R firearm I must record the sellers name and address. Basically, no matter what we C&R holders do, buy or sell, we must record the basic information in our bound books IF the weapon involved is a C&R weapon.

I say this only so that there is no omission of facts here. I don't want someone to meet a C&R holder two (2) years down the road and think he/she is full of nonsense when they need to record personal information.

Some may ask why I would go through the hassle? The simple answer is that as long as I am dealing with a FFL01 or another C&R holder I can simply buy, sell and ship anywhere in the United States without having to do anything else! If I sell a Mosin Nagant to a collector in Maine all he has to do is mail me the check and a copy of his C&R and I ship him the rifle with a copy of my C&R. It can arrive at his doorstep or local UPS for pickup at his choice. No muss no fuss.

Regards,

Doug

At this level you are correct in how you do business to stay legal. I would have no issue with filling out the forms when or if I purchased from you as you would have to do this. It is the same at the LGS.
A personal sale on a FTF is another issue. I know a lot of folks who own guns but do not carry. They are some of the finest people I know. Just seems foolish to exclude them from purchasing because they choose not to pay the "Tax" to carry and do not want to be on record with big brother.

 

[Miller Tyme]

Did I ever think? I state pretty clearly that I understand the reasoning. Also I take offense to being called paranoid. I'm a Marine combat veteran. I have a certain bit of experience in regards to war, guns and the government. To some its called situational awareness. Others call it hyper vigilence. The media, psycho thereapist wannabes, and the uninitiated call it paranoia.

Also, theres nothing keeping me from getting my ltch besides time, money, and principle. The worry of it ever being used against me somehow is merely a mild hinderance.

Timithy McVey was also a vet, now I am not compairing you to McVey, but being a veteran does not somehow make you OK to sell to without certian percautions being taken.

Remember while you have the right to buy the gun, the seller has the right not to sell it to you.

 

[gregkl]

I agree completely. I have an LTCH and carry with it every day. I will not show it to a seller, or contact a seller that requires one. I think it is ridiculous that they require it, as it does absolutely NOTHING but be annoying. Like I said in the other thread, I will gladly not buy from those requiring it, in protest, because there are many gun owners that own guns, or only long guns, and don't have an LTCH. Those owners far outnumber us LTCH holders I can assure you. We don't need to treat them like second class gun owners because they own but don't carry.
And like I said last time, it is just a pink piece of paper, most people have copies. It also has NO security features, as it is only made to hold your license number, and name, for easy LEO reference. If it was fake, an LEO can easily tell, not by the paper, but by checking the license number and name vs your drivers license. This means that anyone can fake an LTCH, who has access to a computer, and a printer. The hardest part to making a fake LTCH would be finding the right shade of pink paper.

Just curious, where did you get your information that "most people have copies"?

Do you think a criminal would go through the trouble of making a fake LTCH?

Do you think that same criminal is cruising sites like INGO, joining, posting and then attempting to buy a gun? (not sure, but I bet that a user can be traced fairly easily)

Or do you suppose the criminal will just buy it on the street like they often times do?

 

[churchmouse]

Just curious, where did you get your information that "most people have copies"?

Do you think a criminal would go through the trouble of making a fake LTCH?

Do you think that same criminal is cruising sites like INGO, joining, posting and then attempting to buy a gun? (not sure, but I bet that a user can be traced fairly easily)

Or do you suppose the criminal will just buy it on the street like they often times do?

Having a copy is common practice. After loosing mine when wallet went missing I will be making a viable copy to carry and the original will be in the safe.

I have my doubts that there are many criminal sorts on ingo but no way to be sure. A person can find ways to access this site and not be traced....just saying if you want to put out the effort there are ways.

Gun brokers, arms list etc is another story all together.

 

[JettaKnight]

Timithy McVey was also a vet, now I am not comparing you to McVey, but being a veteran does not somehow make you OK to sell to without certain precautions being taken.

God bless anyone who serves, but that doesn't give you anymore rights than me or make you incapable of committing acts of violence.

Just curious, where did you get your information that "most people have copies"?

Because that flimsy piece of paper is suppose to last for a lifetime - people make copies.

Do you think a criminal would go through the trouble of making a fake LTCH?

In order to buy a gun? Yes, I do.

Do you think that same criminal is cruising sites like INGO, joining, posting and then attempting to buy a gun?

Yup. "Hi, I'm Joe, I've got a felony from 20 years ago but I've reformed and want to protect my family...."
Motive may be true, but still illegal.

Or do you suppose the criminal will just buy it on the street like they often times do?

FTF is on the streets - or parking lots. If you're referring to a black market sale where both parties are dirty, I can't say, never did a deal like that. I don't even have anecdotal evidence to go from.

 

[JettaKnight]

When we go to buy guns FTF we usually require a LTCH and the other guy does as well. However when we actually meet and the guy looks ok everyone seems to forget to show that pink slip. I think wanting to see a LTCH scares off the "bad guys".

THIS!

I don't know how many times I buy from a guy that demands to see ID and LTCH, but then never asks for it when we meet.

 

[oldad]

i dont see the need for ltch for buying rifle but i guess its a piece of mind thing

 

[wally05]

I've required it for piece of mind. Sorry, but I won't sell to anyone without one unless you want to pay a transfer fee. It's the responsible thing to do. I've only turned down one buyer in a FTF and it was one I got the "willies" from. I just said "sorry, man, I can't sell this to you." Got in my car and left without further explanation.

 

[sben763]

I would not sell FTF even if you have LTCH. A FFL transfer at a LGS is the only way to do this. I would feel terrible had I sold a handgun or riffle to someone that showed a LTCH and was revoked or fake and the gun was used in a illegal manner. The usual $15-$20 transfer fee is worth a piece a mind that I did everything I could to keep guns out of criminals hands.

 

[RabbleRouser]

At the end of the day what it boils down to is that it is MY gun and if I want to see a LTCH then it is MY prerogative. I could require that you show up in a white sport coat with a pink carnation and once again it is MY prerogative. If YOU, as the purchaser, do not agree with MY terms then you are always able to buy it somewhere else like a gun shop.....THEY wont ask for a LTCH (in this state at least), just fill out a 4473 wait for the clerk to call the FBI NICS number and then, bobs your uncle, you own a gun.

 

[ML ll THUMBHOLE]

I've required it for piece of mind. Sorry, but I won't sell to anyone without one unless you want to pay a transfer fee. It's the responsible thing to do. I've only turned down one buyer in a FTF and it was one I got the "willies" from. I just said "sorry, man, I can't sell this to you." Got in my car and left without further explanation.
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I'VE DONE THE SAME THING EVEN WHEN A PERMIT WAS SHOWN. SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO GET A READ ON PEOPLE. RIGHT OR WRONG. PEACE OF MIND IS A GOOD THING..