Breaking: Truck Plows into Berlin Christmas Market

[actaeon277]

If you ever wanted a case study in the ignorance of journalists, and fake news, I've been watching NBC and ABC news at my mother-in-law's house and both outlets keep asking how the attacker could cross borders without being detected. Any journalist with a passing familiarity of the EU should know that there is no passport control within Europe.

They think guns will mysteriously stop at lines on a map here also. Either state lines, or country lines.

 

[Sylvain]

If you ever wanted a case study in the ignorance of journalists, and fake news, I've been watching NBC and ABC news at my mother-in-law's house and both outlets keep asking how the attacker could cross borders without being detected. Any journalist with a passing familiarity of the EU should know that there is no passport control within Europe.

It's not the entire EU (but almost), only the Schengen area.
And some countries like Germany and France now re-introduced border controls.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

3 more reported arrested, his nephew and 2 others.
Berlin Truck Attack: Nephew of Suspect Anis Amri, 2 Others Arrested - NBC News
Anis Amri: 3 arrested including Berlin suspect's nephew - CNN.com

 

[churchmouse]

If you ever wanted a case study in the ignorance of journalists, and fake news, I've been watching NBC and ABC news at my mother-in-law's house and both outlets keep asking how the attacker could cross borders without being detected. Any journalist with a passing familiarity of the EU should know that there is no passport control within Europe.

Journalism is no longer as it was intended. It is now agenda pushing.
Spin it up for ratings. Make it up for the same reasons.

 

[T.Lex]

If one of our Italian INGO members could provide us with the appropriate Italian Code (I.C.) on the topic of stopping someone to ask for their papers, I sure would appreciate it. Applying Indiana, or any other US state, law to an incident that occurred in Italy just ain't gonna fly.

So, Italy's laws on this generally align with other EU countries. There are, of course, local flavors and distinctions, but this is a summary.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/italy/local-laws-and-customs

By law you must be able to show some form of identification at all times. In most cases a photocopy of the data page of your passport should suffice, but you may be asked to accompany the police to collect the original document, or to produce it within 12 hours. The police will normally ask for your full passport if you are stopped while driving.

In a couple places, it is mentioned that this only applies to non-Italians. Of course, that's a bit circular. If they stop you, and you claim to be Italian, they can ask for proof that you're Italian.

It does appear that police in Italy are allowed to use random checkpoints to check for anything.
How to Deal with Italy's Police Checkpoints - Italy Chronicles

And of course, Wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_electronic_identity_card

It is not compulsory to carry the card itself, as the authorities may ask for only the identity of a person, not a specific document. However, if public-security officers are not convinced of the claimed identity, like from a verbally-provided identity claim, they may keep the claimant in custody until the identity is ascertained.

So, again, it is a different system. Italian police appear to have been well within their rights to approach shooter and ask him to identify himself, regardless whether they suspected him of anything.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

So, Italy's laws on this generally align with other EU countries. There are, of course, local flavors and distinctions, but this is a summary.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/italy/local-laws-and-customs



In a couple places, it is mentioned that this only applies to non-Italians. Of course, that's a bit circular. If they stop you, and you claim to be Italian, they can ask for proof that you're Italian.

It does appear that police in Italy are allowed to use random checkpoints to check for anything.
How to Deal with Italy's Police Checkpoints - Italy Chronicles

And of course, Wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_electronic_identity_card



So, again, it is a different system. Italian police appear to have been well within their rights to approach shooter and ask him to identify himself, regardless whether they suspected him of anything.

Thanks for providing the info, Giancarlo.

 

[T.Lex]

Thanks for providing the info, Giancarlo.

Not sure what's so funny, but you're welcome.

A little comparative law goes a long way.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Not sure what's so funny, but you're welcome.

A little comparative law goes a long way.

I asked for an Italian (i.e. living in Italy) member of INGO to provide the law. You provided it. I made a joke. I guess it wasn't that funny.

 

[Birds Away]

I asked for an Italian (i.e. living in Italy) member of INGO to provide the law. You provided it. I made a joke. I guess it wasn't that funny.

Meh, I laughed.

 

[jamil]

I thought it was funny.

 

[Birds Away]

Do we have any members living in Italy?

Or were you expecting Sylvain to relocate?

 

[T.Lex]

I asked for an Italian (i.e. living in Italy) member of INGO to provide the law. You provided it. I made a joke. I guess it wasn't that funny.

You asked for the law. I provided it. (Or at least summaries.)

I actually think it is good for people to be familiar with how other countries govern. It can help us appreciate our own system and maybe even realize that there are different routes to achieve the same result.

 

[actaeon277]

I asked for an Italian (i.e. living in Italy) member of INGO to provide the law. You provided it. I made a joke. I guess it wasn't that funny.

I thought it was funny.

If a joke has to be explained....

On the other hand, some people have no sense of humor.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Germany to release Tunisian detained in connection with Berlin truck attack - spokeswoman for federal prosecutor

So, INGO - Track him or don't track him?

 

[jamil]

Germany to release Tunisian detained in connection with Berlin truck attack - spokeswoman for federal prosecutor

So, INGO - Track him or don't track him?

what suspect doesn't get watched? Now, if they released him because they learned he wasn't involved, then they have no reason to track him anyway.

Just my 2cents.

 

[T.Lex]

Germany to release Tunisian detained in connection with Berlin truck attack - spokeswoman for federal prosecutor

So, INGO - Track him or don't track him?

Yeah, too many variables that depend on what linked him in the first place.

If he's attended the same mosque led by an extremist imam as Lorry McDude, then probably track him. If he attended the same generic-imam mosque as McDude, then probably not.

If his fingerprints were found on the gun, then definitely track him. If his fingerprints were found in McDude's apartment, then probably not.

Just a spitballing a couple scenarios.

 

[actaeon277]

Czech Gov?t: Placing Weapons in the Hands of Citizens is Best Defense Against Terror
Czech Gov’t: Placing Weapons in the Hands of Citizens is Best Defense Against Terror


Berlin (CNSNews.com) – The Czech Republic has resisted calls by the European Union’s executive Commission to tighten gun controls in response to terror attacks, forcing the E.C. to alter its proposals, allowing for the private ownership of semi-automatic weapons.


The Czech interior ministry now wants to loosen its own laws a step further, proposing a constitutional amendment on Monday that would allow its citizens to bear legally-held firearms against the perpetrators of terrorist attacks, such as those in Nice or Berlin, the Czech news agency ctk reported.
The government says that putting weapons into the hands of citizens is the best defense against terror.

 

[Sylvain]

I read an article saying that the Tunisian man behind the Berlin attack, who was later shot in Italy, traveled thru Europe with his weapon.
Like it's shocking to anyone that open borders don't stop people from carrying illegally from one country to another?
Maybe they expected him the get rid of it since it was used previously in a murder.

The Italian police is now working with the German police to see if it's really the same gun that was used to kill the Polish truck drive in Germany (and potentially used for other crimes too).

Here's the picture provided in the article, saying it was the gun used.

Some kind of PPK style .22LR?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Sylvain, Walther TPH. It was the hotness before '68. Now it does not have the points to come in.

I do not know what Walther marketed this firearm in Europe as.

 

[Sylvain]

Sylvain, Walther TPH. It was the hotness before '68. Now it does not have the points to come in.

I do not know what Walther marketed this firearm in Europe as.

The article didn't say what gun it was, I guess it keeps them from getting it wrong like they do most of the time.
It does look a lot like the gun you mentioned, could be some kind of clone though since I can't see the Walther markings.