Brace Ban

[Cameramonkey]

Ignorance isn't a defense. So this is not the first reversal on a gun that has been sold. See my thread in general "brace ban". The last couple basically the manufacturer provided sale docs to the atf, then the wholesalers provided next sale, then local gun shops provided 4473s. The honeybadger is more popular than the previous two, but the agency is well practiced at this point.

To the feds this is no different than having your pappys grenade from Grenada. You had no idea it was real but you will still catch the charges

What about forced ignorance? If the "law" isnt published and readily referenced, how can it be enforced? Isnt that like a speed limit sign with a white background and white numbers? How fast can you go since you cant see the numbers? (assuming they are not relief printed)

 

[Ggreen]

What about forced ignorance? If the "law" isnt published and readily referenced, how can it be enforced? Isnt that like a speed limit sign with a white background and white numbers? How fast can you go since you cant see the numbers? (assuming they are not relief printed)

Im firmly in the f the atf camp. I'm just saying ignorance isn't acceptable in their eyes. They rounded up the fostech origins really fast. Problem they will have with the honey badger is the secondary market is huge.

The letter the atf issued also called for a sugar weasel to be sent in for evaluation. That's a straight up Sba3 brace, if it gets recalled for being an unregistered sbr that will easily roll into banning every Sba3 out there.

 

[worddoer]

Here's an article saying ATF doesn't want angled foregrips anymore. Even more confusion.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/keeping-your-ar-15-pistol-build-within-legal-limits/

I'm not sure where this article got it's information, but it does not seem accurate. This article was written in May 2019 and I have 2 videos below from July 2019. I have not been able to find any changes that have been publicly announced since the July 2019 time frame.

Here is a very knowledgeable person.....

[video=youtube;Ti87Ve9A598]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti87Ve9A598[/video]

Here is a firearms attorney. You will note that he says hand stops and "other options" are still available as long as they are not "vertical foregrips".

[video=youtube;NY40MWyVEKw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY40MWyVEKw[/video]

 

[DoggyDaddy]

We need to abolish the ATF and repeal the NFA.
Or just turn them into A&T. Drop the F

Yeah! Get the F out!

 

[KLB]

That would be re-re-review would it not?

If the ATF can magically reclassify something without congress, can not the president do the reverse with executive orders?

How many votes would Trump lose if he took SBRs, SBSs and suppressors out of the NFA? Zero

How many would he gain? More than I have bullets...and I have a lot of bullets.

They can reclassify things until the courts or Congress tell them they have gone too far. The USSC pretty much handed them that power with the Chevron case and their "Chevron Deference".

 

[mike8170]

So, does this mean that my Fallout 4 Sole Survivor can't modify his RU 556 or service rifle into the Honey Badger configuration? Man, he really likes it and I don't want the knuckledraggers going through my stuff.

Well, in all seriousness, F the ATF, and all of the "regulatory" branches of .Gov that try shove un-Constitutional and unjust rules down the throats of law abiding citizens and business. One day, there will be a reckoning.

 

[jkaetz]

I do not have one of these braces but I am sure it is only a matter of time before they do come for one I do have.

Of course, I meant had. . . . before the tragic boating accident that is.

They can track this much easier as it is a complete firearm with associated paper trail. Attempting to track down everyone who has bought a brace and possibly attached it to a receiver will be a much taller hurdle though I do also expect them to try.

 

[Bigtanker]

Good explanation of this.

[video=youtube_share;gCpUdKf9TmY]http://youtu.be/gCpUdKf9TmY[/video]

 

[WebSnyper]

If the issue really is length of pull, could HoneyBadger make some kind of a modification (bring the guns back in and make a mod) or put out something that allows existing owners to limit the length of pull, and that resolve the issue? Obviously the ATF would need to review the proposed fix, and possibly approve it I'd assume

 

[brchixwing]

I have an "After Ban" AB-10 which came after the Tec-9 was banned just like those street sweepers. Cat and mouse game but put intratec out of business.

This is from a legal breakdown, which anyone who has shot a (POS) Tec 9 knows is ridiculous:

The TEC-9 offered firepower approaching or exceeding that of military-type weapons such as the AK-47 and the Colt AR-15. Its use of staggered, double-column ammunition magazines is associated with military or law enforcement, not civilian shooting requirements. Even large capacity, commercially available semi-automatic pistols such as the Glock 17 cannot match the firepower of the TEC-9.

Many times. Street Sweeper shotguns becoming "destructive devices", the first time they said shouldering a brace magically transformed any pistol to an SBR. Just another day of bureaucrats making laws by fiat instead of due process.

We let them get away with an even worse case with the whole bump stock thing. That encouraged them I believe. If Biden wins, braced pistols are going to the NFA in a heartbeat. Honestly they are only marginally safer with a Trump victory.

How is this not tantamount to the ISP deciding the speed limit on interstates should be 50 mph and ticketing anyone they wish?

 

[brchixwing]

Seems like we see a new topic every few years -- the pistol brace discussion isn't new, but they just need a "catalyst". Vegas was the catalyst for bump stocks. Concerns of 7n6 *pistols* were the catalyst to ban the imports of 5.45x39.

If the issue really is length of pull, could HoneyBadger make some kind of a modification (bring the guns back in and make a mod) or put out something that allows existing owners to limit the length of pull, and that resolve the issue? Obviously the ATF would need to review the proposed fix, and possibly approve it I'd assume

 

[Trigger Time]

Hey guys please do us all a favor. Click this link from gun owners of America, fill in your personal info and send an email to president Trump to smack the beurocrats in the ATF's pee pee's and stop this latest assault on the 2nd amendment via arm braces. Even if you dont own one and you think they are stupid, please do me a personal favor and one for the Republic, and take a big stand for the constitution and do it anyways. Thank you!

Please click both links below and send it.

https://gunowners.org/na10072020/?f...liV_jtannTTlyy_63wZ7DNo-6tRqFAS8MQVXDg6-fLSr0

https://www.fracaction.org/contact-officials

And if you aren't yet a member of GOA please consider joining. I am a member and also a life member of the NRA. We need to do all we can peacefully to stop tyranny in its tracks. We MUST try.

I know there are patriot men and women who serve honorably in the ATF and other law enforcement agencies, and they in no way support this crap. To those agents, officers, and civilian employees, Thank You for your service. But to corrupt politicians and beurocrats who threaten our rights, it's time to find new employment.

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

So..... I’ll ask again, can anyone show me printed law that states what violation is being committed and what criminal code is being broken? I know when I arrest someone, “because I said so” isn’t a valid reason and I’m feeling that’s what the ATF is trying to do. That’s not legal.

 

[Ggreen]

So..... I’ll ask again, can anyone show me printed law that states what violation is being committed and what criminal code is being broken? I know when I arrest someone, “because I said so” isn’t a valid reason and I’m feeling that’s what the ATF is trying to do. That’s not legal.

There isn't one

Here is the atf according to tfb

"After examining a sample Q Honey Badger Pistol, the ATF’s Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) concluded that “the objective features of the Honey Badger firearm, configured with the subject stabilizing brace, indicate the firearm is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder.” FATD further concluded that it is a SBR as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA) and Gun Control Act (GCA). Yet, ATF does not explain how it arrived at this conclusion other than vague generalizations that the firearm was “designed” to be fired from the shoulder and by virtue of its barrel length meeting the definition of a SBR. "

They literally have themselves this power under order of trump. There is nothing about a bumpstock that makes it a machine gun, but here we are.

 

[ajeandy]

So what happens if they decide to "ban" braces and classify them as sbrs on short barrels? Are you just supposed to dismantle your firearm or what?

 

[masterdekoy]

So what happens if they decide to "ban" braces and classify them as sbrs on short barrels? Are you just supposed to dismantle your firearm or what?

Q suggested separating the upper and lower, either transfer ownership to someone without a HB lower or use the upper temporarily on a SBR or other pistol and complete a form 1.

 

[ajeandy]

Q suggested separating the upper and lower, either transfer ownership to someone without a HB lower or use the upper temporarily on a SBR or other pistol and complete a form 1.

So basically if they decide to bank "braces" on AR "pistols" then anyone who owns one will need to register in accordance with the NFA right? $200 or whatever tax stamp

 

[masterdekoy]

So basically if they decide to bank "braces" on AR "pistols" then anyone who owns one will need to register in accordance with the NFA right? $200 or whatever tax stamp

Not necessarily. You can assemble a AR pistol with a pistol buffer tube, without a brace. I’m sure Q suggested a form 1 so the Honey Badger can be returned to its original configuration, the way people bought it.

 

[ajeandy]

Not necessarily. You can assemble a AR pistol with a pistol buffer tube, without a brace. I’m sure Q suggested a form 1 so the Honey Badger can be returned to its original configuration, the way people bought it.

Right.....I'm sure lots of people want an AR pistol with just a buffer tube though...I think we all know why people buy AR pistols with braces. lol

 

[Ggreen]

Not necessarily. You can assemble a AR pistol with a pistol buffer tube, without a brace. I’m sure Q suggested a form 1 so the Honey Badger can be returned to its original configuration, the way people bought it.

People bought it as a pistol. Some can't have sbr's so now what? The original configuration was a pistol. The way the atf worded their letter q is going to have to back pay 200 for manufacture of each which requires a form2. So each lower will technically be a factory sbr which really muddies up waters for owners