Black man shot in Kenosha, riots starting all over again...

[Clay Pigeon]

What, the Mom was just a breeder? Their not his unless he has custody, and I doubt he wanted them in his life except on his terms

Stereotype much? After growing up with a single dad an then myself being a single dad.
I know this, its better for the children to come from a broken home than to live in one.

 

[jamil]

You shoot a Hitler in the back in front of his 3 kids, and I'd probably object.

Even if this guy was a sexual predator, you don't kill him in front of his kids. That he is not dead is karma.

Okay. Okay. Mr. Blake. Uh. Let's hold off on this and call a truce for a minute. Let you kids go inside so that when you introduce violence into the interaction, and refuse to drop the knife, if we need to shoot you, at least it won't be in front of your kids.

Dude, I don't think that cop wanted to shoot him, and certainly not in front of Blake's kid. It's poor optics, sure, but the kid being there isn't as much a factor in the events that led up to it as Blake's own actions. He introduced violence into the interaction. He was the one with the most choice in the matter. The cop who opened fire, right or wrong, did not think he had much choice. And we can blame him if he's wrong, but let's not pretend that they could have just called the whole thing off. It was their duty to arrest Blake. So why resist? Why should he put his kid's through that? That's a more sane question than asking why cops put Blake's kids through it. They're just there on a call. And they had a warrant to arrest Blake.

 

[Twangbanger]

Okay. Okay. Mr. Blake. Uh. Let's hold off on this and call a truce for a minute. Let you kids go inside so that when you introduce violence into the interaction, and refuse to drop the knife, if we need to shoot you, at least it won't be in front of your kids.

Dude, I don't think that cop wanted to shoot him, and certainly not in front of Blake's kid. It's poor optics, sure, but the kid being there isn't as much a factor in the events that led up to it as Blake's own actions. He introduced violence into the interaction. He was the one with the most choice in the matter. The cop who opened fire, right or wrong, did not think he had much choice. And we can blame him if he's wrong, but let's not pretend that they could have just called the whole thing off. It was their duty to arrest Blake. So why resist? Why should he put his kid's through that? That's a more sane question than asking why cops put Blake's kids through it. They're just there on a call. And they had a warrant to arrest Blake.

This is precisely what The Left thinks. Alp himself said it in the Wendy's taser thread. You've got the guy's license plate...just let him go and round him up later.

What is being advocated here is looser policing of a certain segment of the population. We can have a civilized discussion about whether that's a good idea, but let's just establish what we're saying here. Certain segments of society can't play by the same rules as the rest of us. Whether because of upbringing, scripting, birth, oppression, you name it. So we engage in a collective act of noblesse oblige, and police them differently. We're going to take stuff the residents of Carmel would never expect their Police to tolerate, and let it slide. Because they can't help themselves.

_That_, my friends, is what the more elegant "Atlantic Monthly" style racism looks like.

 

[jamil]

Were they definitely "his" kids? Or just the kids of his baby-mama? And I would not have hesitated to kill Hitler in front of his kids (if he had any). Why did he put his kids into that situation? Does he share no blame for that? You're way more forgiving (and encouraging of bad behavior) than I am I guess.

I don't think it matters to the case whose kids they were. I think a lot of people are focusing on things that don't matter. It doesn't matter whether the woman who called the police is a girlfriend, or ex-girlfrend. It doesn't matter whose ****ing car it was. The kids aren't even important to the case. They're just optics that people want to bring into it, because **** 12. What really happened in the moments that lead up to Blake being shot is what matters. Was he a deadly threat at the moment the officer decided to shoot? And I suppose another question is pertinent, since it's being called systemic racism. Did it have anything to do with Blake's race?

 

[BugI02]

Maybe if we draw Alpo a picture?



View attachment 90700

 

[jamil]

This is precisely what The Left thinks. Alp himself said it in the Wendy's taser thread. You've got the guy's license plate, just let him go and round him up later.

What is being advocated here is looser policing of a certain segment of the population. We can have a civilized discussion about whether that's a good idea, but let's just establish what we're saying here. Certain segments of society can't play by the same rules as the rest of us. Whether because of upbringing, scripting, birth, oppression, you name it. So we engage in a collective act of noblesse oblige, and police them differently. Because they can't help themselves.

I think Alpo was running on emotion and not thinking clearly. It's the cop's job to round him up now before he does something that harms other people. So as soon as someone resists arrest, you just let them go and round them up later? So how much more compliant to being arrested will they be later?

I've brought up before that police using deadly force, per encounter is slightly higher for whites than for blacks. So that normalizes for disproportionalities, even though the critical race theorists call it "systemic racism" because blacks are shot disproportionately more than whites, as if whites and blacks had proportional encounters. But that ***damn systemic racism called statistics says that blacks have way more encounters with police than white people do. The solution to that problem isn't for the police to say "**** it", just let him go, whenever a black man says he doesn't want to be arrested today. That's really no more than the soft racism of low expectations.

 

[larcat]

All of this micro dissection of it...

There was an open sexual assault and abuse warrant, they were responding to a call from the complainant on that warrant, according to a couple reports there was a restraining order in effect. All with the full weight of the Duluth Model behind it. Any sort of resistance to the arrest was going to be met harshly, regardless of race. Can layer Wisconsin as a mandatory arrest state for domestics on top of it.

 

[Alpo]

I think Alpo was running on emotion and not thinking clearly. It's the cop's job to round him up now before he does something that harms other people. So as soon as someone resists arrest, you just let them go and round them up later? So how much more compliant to being arrested will they be later?

I've brought up before that police using deadly force, per encounter is slightly higher for whites than for blacks. So that normalizes for disproportionalities, even though the critical race theorists call it "systemic racism" because blacks are shot disproportionately more than whites, as if whites and blacks had proportional encounters. But that ***damn systemic racism called statistics says that blacks have way more encounters with police than white people do. The solution to that problem isn't for the police to say "**** it", just let him go, whenever a black man says he doesn't want to be arrested today. That's really no more than the soft racism of low expectations.

Please don't tell me what you think I think. I can speak for myself.

If you want to know what I think, ask me.

 

[jamil]

Please don't tell me what you think I think. I can speak for myself.

If you want to know what I think, ask me.

I was replying to you saying something to the effect they should just have let the Atlanta guy go. Your conclusion implies your thinking.

 

[Alpo]

I was replying to you saying something to the effect they should just have let the Atlanta guy go. Your conclusion implies your thinking.

In the context of a long thread discussion, many things are said. Sometimes opinions are modified based upon the input from others....except on INGO of course. As to emotion, George Floyd made me emotional. Brook's shooting was an embarrassment of police interaction.

We don't have enough facts here to say more than Blake was tased and resisted. I have yet to see proof of a knife and where the knife was located. We haven't heard Blake's story.

I am not arguing on behalf of Blake. But, I am of the opinion that 7 shots into someone's back is not a good day on patrol.

And, since the cops are not releasing more information at this point, we have a partial story, at best, from their side. We'll know more in the weeks to come.

 

[foszoe]

What, the Mom was just a breeder? Their not his unless he has custody, and I doubt he wanted them in his life except on his terms

I had no idea you were s woke feminist!

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Alpo, we have agreed on somethings and disagreed on other things.

If I may be so bold, I believe we both want the same results (a decent, peaceful world populated by a free people with a just legal system).

You seem to be in the minority of vocal opinions on some topics here and for what it's worth i am grateful that ingo is not just an echo chamber for my own opinions.

I also figure you are probably a "dog person" , so that counts for something.

I was going to pm this, but figured I might as well say it in public.

I think Blake's shooting rests solely on himself, possibly a tiny bit on his father for not teaching him how to interact with the world.

I do always find your counterpoints interesting, if contrary to my own logic.

If the hammers are watching, consider letting this thread run. It is good for us to hash this stuff out.

 

[Alpo]

 

[foszoe]

Alpo, we have agreed on somethings and disagreed on other things.

If I may be so bold, I believe we both want the same results (a decent, peaceful world populated by a free people with a just legal system).

You seem to be in the minority of vocal opinions on some topics here and for what it's worth i am grateful that ingo is not just an echo chamber for my own opinions.

I also figure you are probably a "dog person" , so that counts for something.

I was going to pm this, but figured I might as well say it in public.

I think Blake's shooting rests solely on himself, possibly a tiny bit on his father for not teaching him how to interact with the world.

I do always find your counterpoints interesting, if contrary to my own logic.

If the hammers are watching, consider letting this thread run. It is good for us to hash this stuff out.

I stand with Alpo and won't pass judgment until we hear the whole story. I'd want people like Alpo on my jury.

Oh and my gsd is 2 1/2 weeks old!

 

[Tombs]

For those that seek to defend Blake, please answer a question for me.

What prevented Blake from stopping and complying with officers?

 

[jamil]

In the context of a long thread discussion, many things are said. Sometimes opinions are modified based upon the input from others....except on INGO of course. As to emotion, George Floyd made me emotional. Brook's shooting was an embarrassment of police interaction.

We don't have enough facts here to say more than Blake was tased and resisted. I have yet to see proof of a knife and where the knife was located. We haven't heard Blake's story.

I am not arguing on behalf of Blake. But, I am not of the opinion that 7 shots into someone's back is not a good day on patrol.

And, since the cops are not releasing more information at this point, we have a partial story, at best, from their side. We'll know more in the weeks to come.

George Floyd case made me emotional too. After being conned by the media on the Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown shootings, I've learned to have more of a wait until the facts come out attitude. But with Floyd, I thought after seeing that video, there are no other facts that could mitigate that. I thought it was racist. And I thought that it was intentional. After seeing the fuller video in context, however, I don't see anything racial about that stop. Floyd said he couldn't breathe when he was just sitting in the back of the car. They tried to accommodate him. The 8-1/2 minutes is bull****, and that cop needs to be fired. Possibly be charged with some kind of negligent homicide. But I saw no evidence that race was a factor, given how the officers dealt with Floyd and the other two who were involved.

With Brook, again, race wasn't a factor. Violence was not on the table until Brook put it there. It was embarrassing for the cops because one guy manhandled both cops. It was clear from the video that Brook turned and shot the taser at the officer. If that officer gets tased and Brook gets his firearm, that's a deadly situation. I think it was justified, but not good. I don't know if it was poor conditioning, or poor training. But if they could have handled him without having to chase him, then putting deadly force on the table is a lot less likely.

Blake? There is no evidence that race was a factor there either. So I don't think the press and BLM making this a racial issue is justified by the facts. Protests about police practices, sure. Everyone should be on the same page with that. That cop knelt on that guy's neck for 8-1/2 minutes. There's no justification for that. But I guess every time a black man is shot by white cops, regardless of the facts, we're going to see riots break out because the only explanation some people have is that it must have been because the cops are racists.

 

[jamil]

I stand with Alpo and won't pass judgment until we hear the whole story. I'd want people like Alpo on my jury.

Oh and my gsd is 2 1/2 weeks old!

There is probably not a puppy cuter than a GSD. They look a bit oddly proportioned during their teen years, but so do most creatures. I won't have another one because I'm tired of seeing them suffer with hip dysplasia in older years.

 

[Kutnupe14]

George Floyd case made me emotional too. After being conned by the media on the Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown shootings, I've learned to have more of a wait until the facts come out attitude. But with Floyd, I thought after seeing that video, there are no other facts that could mitigate that. I thought it was racist. And I thought that it was intentional. After seeing the fuller video in context, however, I don't see anything racial about that stop. Floyd said he couldn't breathe when he was just sitting in the back of the car. They tried to accommodate him. The 8-1/2 minutes is bull****, and that cop needs to be fired. Possibly be charged with some kind of negligent homicide. But I saw no evidence that race was a factor, given how the officers dealt with Floyd and the other two who were involved.

With Brook, again, race wasn't a factor. Violence was not on the table until Brook put it there. It was embarrassing for the cops because one guy manhandled both cops. It was clear from the video that Brook turned and shot the taser at the officer. If that officer gets tased and Brook gets his firearm, that's a deadly situation. I think it was justified, but not good. I don't know if it was poor conditioning, or poor training. But if they could have handled him without having to chase him, then putting deadly force on the table is a lot less likely.

Blake? There is no evidence that race was a factor there either. So I don't think the press and BLM making this a racial issue is justified by the facts. Protests about police practices, sure. Everyone should be on the same page with that. That cop knelt on that guy's neck for 8-1/2 minutes. There's no justification for that. But I guess every time a black man is shot by white cops, regardless of the facts, we're going to see riots break out because the only explanation some people have is that it must have been because the cops are racists.

Wait. You think if an officer puts his knee on the back of a person’s neck for 8+ minutes, and that person subsequently dies, he needs to be fired, and “possibly” charged? If we can agree that the officer’s actions were excessive, and Contributed to the victims death, I think we take the “possibly” out of the equation.

 

[jamil]

Wait. You think if an officer puts his knee on the back of a person’s neck for 8+ minutes, and that person subsequently dies, he needs to be fired, and “possibly” charged? If we can agree that the officer’s actions were excessive, and Contributed to the victims death, I think we take the “possibly” out of the equation.

I think you're reading too much into that. I say "possibly" because I'm not a legal expert and I don't know what he can be charged with that fits this. So what crime does a police officer commit when he acts with excessive force, contributing to the victim's death? It'll not be hard to convince me that he should be charged with something.

 

[KG1]

For those that seek to defend Blake, please answer a question for me.

What prevented Blake from stopping and complying with officers?

This one’s easy. Blake prevented Blake from stopping and complying.