Big Problems if Trump is Indicted

[KLB]

Why are you then not in favor of it? Would you agree with my point that it's an unneeded distraction? I'm trying to whittle this down to something we both can agree on.

I agree totally with you.

 

[HoosierLife]

I know someone who has a US flag at the top of the flag pole, then a Trump flag under that. And then a **** Joe Biden flag under that.

And that's what not living under Karen's HOA hell gets you. I laugh every time I drive by. Freedom baby.

I see some of those down the street from me on 144 before 37.

 

[actaeon277]

about that... we did not list the crime, because it is not required...





In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation;
to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation

 

[jamil]

A question for INGO lawyers. Is it normal for someone to be arrested before all the charges are filed? So far it looks like we're lacking the crime covered up that all these counts depend on. How normal is that?

ETA: Do they even have a case without knowing the covered up crime? That's supposedly what elevates this to a felony.

 

[KG1]

I don't believe Trump was ever indicted or convicted of an underlying crime.. I believe that the TO CFO and Michael Cohen were indicted and convicted of a related tax fraud crime for which they plead guilty, but Trump wasn't.

Could that possibly be the underlying crime that Bragg is referring to in which he would make the accusation that Trump allegedly tried to assist them in concealing those crimes after the fact?

 

[jamil]

I don't believe Trump was ever indicted or convicted of an underlying crime.. I believe that the TO CFO and Michael Cohen were indicted and convicted of a related tax fraud crime for which they plead guilty, but Trump wasn't. Could that possibly be the underlying crime that Bragg is referring to in which he would make the accusation that Trump allegedly tried to assist them in concealing those crimes after the fact?

One of the charges that Cohen plead guilty to was a campaign finance violation for his part in paying to silence the two hoes that Trump screwed. All the other charges were for crimes Cohen allegedly committed that had nothing to do with Trump. I think they got him all all those other charges, and just threw that one in there, then offered a plea deal on the whole package.

I'll bet that's the other crime. They'll claim that by Trump accounting for that expense as "legal fees", he was trying to cover up an illegal campaign contribution. That's gonna be hard to prove. It wouldn't matter though if they get a favorable jury who's going to convict him no matter what.

 

[KG1]

One of the charges that Cohen plead guilty to was a campaign finance violation for his part in paying to silence the two hoes that Trump screwed. All the other charges were for crimes Cohen allegedly committed that had nothing to do with Trump. I think they got him all all those other charges, and just threw that one in there, then offered a plea deal on the whole package.

I'll bet that's the other crime. They'll claim that by Trump accounting for that expense as "legal fees", he was trying to cover up an illegal campaign contribution. That's gonna be hard to prove. It wouldn't matter though if they get a favorable jury who's going to convict him no matter what.

That’s kinda what I’m thinking Bragg is going for as well. It all has to be related with an alleged attempt to conceal how the financing and reimbursement of all the hush money payments went down.

Especially the way they were recorded in the books. He was indicted for allegedly falsifying business records to conceal an underlying crime. That has to be what it’s for because those were the records in question.

 

[KG1]

I think where I got the tax thing from it’s been alleged that Trump assisted Cohen in structuring the reimbursements in such a way that allegedly committed tax fraud in the way the taxes were reported to the NY tax authority. I believe Bragg even mentions it in the video that act posted toward the end.

I think he was accused of doing the same thing with the TO CFO in his tax case for the way he was compensated for the work he did but Trump was never convicted of it. The TFO pled guilty to a tax fraud charge.

 

[KG1]

If you take a look at the video that act posted starting at approx. the 7:30 min. mark Bragg actually gives an I idea about what kind of alleged underlying crimes he'll be going for. It all revolves around the hush money payments. It's pretty clear that's what he's focusing on.

 

[DataGeek19]

Forty-Five was ringside at UFC 287 last night.

 

[KG1]

Forty-Five was ringside at UFC 287 last night.
View attachment 268769

I'll bet that Ari Emanuel who is part of the Corp. that owns the UFC wasn't too thrilled with this. He is the brother of Rham Emanuel the former Mayor of Chicago both of whom are Democrats that have a strong dislike for Trump.

 

[LeftyGunner]

I understand you were making a point about how it's perceived. And I replied to that and said it was perceived like that by the left because of ignorance. Your understanding of it does not sound to me like you've gotten anything out of it other than what your bubble has told you.



C'mon man. Be serious.

Here's one of them.



There's only one reason a person might invite a black person over when you have your rebel flag up. Right? To send the message you think. Or. The guy whose flag is running below the US flag on his pole invites his neighbor over because they're friends. The neighbor has one too.


I'm pretty sure I said culture. The flag is a cultural icon throughout the south associated with regional pride. Also, others have noted that it's also a symbol "rebel". Anti-government and whatnot.


I would rather have said it this way. KKK certainly uses the flag, and it's a part of their identity. Do they intend it as an icon of their hatred? I don't think they think the flag represents hate. I think they think the flag represents the rebellion.

The KKK was formed right after the end of the civil war. Former confederates. I think the flag to them meant that they're still part of the confederacy. I'm not saying they don't hate black people, but I don't think that's what they're symbolizing with the flag. But, it's certainly understandable that people see that flag and think it symbolizes hate.


I could say the same thing. You started this subtopic talking about what it looks like to people when they see that flag with Trump's image on it. Then I bring intent into it and you didn't put it in specific words but what you've been about the whole time is that there can only be one reason someone might display it. It's not a far jump at all.

Let me ask this. Before I spoke up about it, did it even occur to you why so many people display it for reasons that have nothing to do with racism? Have you ever given any thought at all to it. Like, "hmm, we're told that flag can only mean racist things, so why do all those people wave it around? Can they all be racists? Really?"



Intent is an important part and pointing out that you can relax, most people who display that flag are no more racist than you are. I think it's also fair to point out that the reaction in the media to that was over the top, and disproportionate.



Wouldn't it be better if the media honestly explored why people fly that flag and report on that? Behavior is the key indicator.

Senario: Okay so you see the stereotypical unshaven red neck, driving a mid 2000's RAM 2500 diesel with a 12" diameter smoke stack sticking up through the hole in the bed they cut for it, and they're rolling coal down the highway. On the front bumper is a rebel flag plate, and a rebel flag screen in the back window. You can barely make out a rebel flag patch on the driver's head through the hat's grime. And you're pretty sure you just saw him taking a swig of what looks like a clear liquid from a mason jar, but you're sure it's not water. The driver also looks like he's been inbred about 4 generations, and has a scowl on his face.

Is he a racist?

Answer. Not enough information. But it's probably best if you avoid him either way because of the other red flags available to you.

Okay. Let's say you also see some bumper stickers on the back of his truck that says, "only n-word and ****ies wear hats backwards."

Now you have sufficient evidence to know he's a racist. I don't know if I got the wording right, but I actually saw that bumper sticker back in the 80s.

Rebel flag alone...don't know. Rebel flag or not + other indicators, yeah. A racist.

Really? For someone who insists on intellectual honesty from others, your posts are conspicuously lacking in it.

I’m specifically talking about Indiana…I literally mentioned our state by name over half a dozen times in my posts.

You even posted yourself that the displaying the confederate flag outside of the south wouldn’t be socially acceptable, nor would you do it yourself.

Why is that, Jamil? Is it because you don’t believe your own argument? Is it because flying a flag that was designed to represent a deeply racist culture might reinforce an unwelcome association between you and the racism that defined that culture?

Are you seriously arguing that the only reason to connect the confederate flag to racism is ignorance?

What a dumb hill to die on.

Okay, here’s a really simple test: do a google images search for “racist flag”.

There sure is a bunch of southern culture in those results.

 

[Doug]

Meh.
You're talking facts.
If Trump is convicted, he'll be convicted for being Trump.
According to the Left, that should be punishable by life without parole.

 

[KLB]

Okay, here’s a really simple test: do a google images search for “racist flag”.

That is a horrible way to determine if the flag is racist.

First those results are based upon web content. That is far from a representation of what people think. Second, Google is well known for social engineering, so the results are what Google wants them to be.

My Google search shows only one other flag other than the battle flag.

My Duck Duck Go search also had others among the top results.

How about that poll in the bottom right from 2015?

 

[LeftyGunner]

That is a horrible way to determine if the flag is racist.

First those results are based upon web content. That is far from a representation of what people think. Second, Google is well known for social engineering, so the results are what Google wants them to be.

My Google search shows only one other flag other than the battle flag.
View attachment 268785
My Duck Duck Go search also had others among the top results.
View attachment 268784
How about that poll in the bottom right from 2015?

I absolutely understand the point you are making, amd I agree that google has some really questionable politics that skew their results…but you have to admit the optics here are pretty striking.

If I google “cat” I get images of cats.

If I google “tabby kitten” the results get more specific.

I can’t help but notice your specific results for “racist flag” contain a pretty large amount of southern culture, too…even on the non-google search.

There is no escaping the racist connection to this symbol, regardless of how many non-racist Mississippians Jamil throws at the problem, theoretical or otherwise.

 

[BigRed]

When everything is racist, nothing is racist.

I absolutley do not give a flying ****.

 

[BugI02]

Seems to be mostly a Democrat thing, even among independents only about 1/3 think it is a racist symbol. Maybe Democrats are still feeling guilty about their part in Jim Crow

Maybe INGO Democrats should get outside of their bubble more

 

[Ingomike]

There is no escaping the racist connection to this symbol,

Why would there be when the leftists that control culture, media, and narrative. The searches prove that fact more than anything about the flag debate…

 

[KLB]

Seems to be mostly a Democrat thing, even among independents only about 1/3 think it is a racist symbol. Maybe Democrats are still feeling guilty about their part in Jim Crow

Maybe INGO Democrats should get outside of their bubble more


View attachment 268789

Looks like the media narrative is working

 

[jamil]

Really? For someone who insists on intellectual honesty from others, your posts are conspicuously lacking in it.

I’m specifically talking about Indiana…I literally mentioned our state by name over half a dozen times in my posts.

You even posted yourself that the displaying the confederate flag outside of the south wouldn’t be socially acceptable, nor would you do it yourself.

Why is that, Jamil? Is it because you don’t believe your own argument? Is it because flying a flag that was designed to represent a deeply racist culture might reinforce an unwelcome association between you and the racism that defined that culture?

Are you seriously arguing that the only reason to connect the confederate flag to racism is ignorance?

What a dumb hill to die on.

Okay, here’s a really simple test: do a google images search for “racist flag”.

There sure is a bunch of southern culture in those results.

WTF? My point from the beginning has been that it's ignorant to say the only reason someone might display the confederate flag is racism. It seemed to me you were saying that, regardless of you insisting you were only talking about how it's perceived.

Now you're trying to turn my words into me saying the only reason to connect it to racism is ignorance? EVEN AFTER I SAID IT CAN BE TIED TO RACISM? I don't think you're stupid. So what's the alternative explanation? Ain't no one dying on that fake hill you created.

And your google test is retarded. You've already admitted that the press has been hyperbolic about it. So I don't even need to make the point about bias in the search results. I'll just use it to point out that suggesting it in the first place is a tacit admission that you do think there's only one reason someone might display that flag. Motte and Bailey indeed.

I'd have preferred just having a conversation. You get what you give.