Beer Virus V

[JCSR]

Same here!... that's why I never put anybody on ignore!

Touché.
Used sarcastically to indicate that one is unable to argue against another's absurd logic.

 

[foszoe]

Same here!... that's why I never put anybody on ignore!

Except for the mods they're all on ignore!

 

[BugI02]

Yet everyday you discount the mainstream media [Gateway Pundit] whether or not they could be true simply by the fact that they haven't been true in the past let me know how you justify that so then I can use the same response.

back@ya'

 

[foszoe]

back@ya'

The surprising thing is I am consistent.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yet you still haven't found one to be false. Of course you would have to open the link and read and we know how valuable your time is.

False? Maybe not. Misleading and full of half truths? Oh hell yes. As an example we'll take this one.

Part V: Ventilators​

18. Ventilation is NOT a treatment for respiratory viruses. Mechanical ventilation is not, and never has been, recommended treatment for respiratory infection of any kind.

That is not false. Ventilators are not a treatment for respiratory viruses. They are a treatment for the symptoms of respiratory viruses/infections. Opioids are not a treatment for severely broken bones, but they are a treatment for the pain they cause. Tylenol isn't a treatment for a sinus infection, but it can be a treatment for some of the symptoms/results of them such as sinus headaches and/or fever. A saline IV isn't going to treat dysentery, but it might stop you from dying of dehydration.

The same goes for quite a few medicines, they don't treat the cause they treat the effects.

Heck one of the Drs they cite (Strauss) uses intubation in Covid patients. He just cautions against over/unnecessary use.

Or how about this one.
"Experts estimate 40-50% of ventilated patients die, regardless of their disease."

Didn't check it, but I'm going to assume that it is correct and not false. But I'm guessing that generally the people who are put on ventilators are usually going to die without being put on one, those odds aren't bad. Look at defibrillators, about 30-50% of the time the person dies anyway. Does that mean they shouldn't be used?

 

[BugI02]

The surprising thing is I am consistent.

Strident, it's not just a flavor of gum

 

[JCSR]

False? Maybe not. Misleading and full of half truths? Oh hell yes. As an example we'll take this one.

Part V: Ventilators​

18. Ventilation is NOT a treatment for respiratory viruses. Mechanical ventilation is not, and never has been, recommended treatment for respiratory infection of any kind.

That is not false. Ventilators are not a treatment for respiratory viruses. They are a treatment for the symptoms of respiratory viruses/infections. Opioids are not a treatment for severely broken bones, but they are a treatment for the pain they cause. Tylenol isn't a treatment for a sinus infection, but it can be a treatment for some of the symptoms/results of them such as sinus headaches and/or fever. A saline IV isn't going to treat dysentery, but it might stop you from dying of dehydration.

The same goes for quite a few medicines, they don't treat the cause they treat the effects.

Heck one of the Drs they cite (Strauss) uses intubation in Covid patients. He just cautions against over/unnecessary use.

Or how about this one.
"Experts estimate 40-50% of ventilated patients die, regardless of their disease."

Didn't check it, but I'm going to assume that it is correct and not false. But I'm guessing that generally the people who are put on ventilators are usually going to die without being put on one, those odds aren't bad. Look at defibrillators, about 30-50% of the time the person dies anyway. Does that mean they shouldn't be used?

So maybe false maybe true. Go ahead you only have 29 more to go.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

So maybe false maybe true. Go ahead you only have 29 more to go.

Nah, true but very misleading. And you asked Fos if he had found one. I posted 2 so it would be 28 to go.

Why would you trust a source that twists and misleads like that? I'd say they are almost as trustworthy as let's say CNN/MSNBC/etc.

 

[Keith_Indy]

This sounds like China was preparing for an outbreak long before the outbreak.

BREAKING: China PCR Test Orders Soared Before First Reported COVID Case, Government Contracts Show Surges in Wuhan-Area Purchases Starting May 2019

According to a new report, there was a dramatic increase in PCR test orders in China during the second half of 2019, prior to the first reported case of COVID-19. The study, conducted by Internet 2.0, concludes that based on the data analyze

humanevents.com

 

[HoughMade]

Delta in Indiana appears to be going away.

We are on the down-hill side for positives, death and hospitalizations.

Deaths never got anywhere near level they were during the December surge. By way of comparison, in late August/early September 2021, we hit an daily positive case # of about 5,000 at that time, there were daily deaths of about 20-30.

When we had about 5,000 daily cases in December (with a much higher peak), we had around 100 deaths per day.

Likewise, in late December, we had around 3,000 hospitalizations, but in late August/Early September 2021, around 2,000, but keeping in mind they were admitting anyone who wanted admittance in late summer of this year. This was not the case in December 2020.

In sum, everything is looking good and getting better.

Delta, of course, was related to a surge in cases, but a comparatively weak increase in serious cases and death, likely for 4 primary reasons: the otherwise sickest people most at risk...are already dead, Delta is more easily spread but not more severe, there are better treatments, and vaccines- particularly in the most vulnerable populations- shift the infection rate to overall healthier people and make "breakthrough" cases less severe.

All this, without masks or shutdowns.

 

[Keith_Indy]

All this, without masks or shutdowns.

Almost as if allowing otherwise healthy people to develop asymptomatic cases is helping build actual "herd" immunity.

But, what do I know, I just breath and try to use common sense (ie the accumulated wisdom of my experience.)

 

[printcraft]

All this, without masks or shutdowns.

 

[rhamersley]

I would put you on "ignore" but it's too much fun messing with you.

You ever think it's one guy or gal with multiple screen names in all these vaccine/virus threads?

 

[Keith_Indy]

Part of why there's such covid vaxx hesitancy...

Public Health Officials Blew Up Their Credibility, and We're Paying the Price

With COVID-19 still sickening and killing people even though effective vaccines have been widely available for all since the spring, it's frustrating to

reason.com

 

[MCgrease08]

Delta in Indiana appears to be going away.

We are on the down-hill side for positives, death and hospitalizations.

Deaths never got anywhere near level they were during the December surge. By way of comparison, in early late August/September 2021, we hit an daily positive case # of about 5,000 at that time, there were daily deaths of about 20-30.

When we had about 5,000 daily cases in December (with a much higher peak), we had around 100 deaths per day.

Likewise, in late December, we had around 3,000 hospitalizations, but in late August/Early September 2021, around 2,000, but keeping in mind they were admitting anyone who wanted admittance in late summer of this year. This was not the case in December 2020.

In sum, everything is looking good and getting better.

Delta, of course, was related to a surge in cases, but a comparatively weak increase in serious cases and death, likely for 4 primary reasons: the otherwise sickest people most at risk...are already dead, Delta is more easily spread but not more severe, there are better treatments, and vaccines- particularly in the most vulnerable populations shift the infection rate to overall healthier people and make "breakthrough" cases less severe.

All this, without masks or shutdowns.

My kids' school district went to a mask mandate about two weeks after classes started, so mid-August. Somehow I doubt the drop in numbers will lead them to drop the masks anytime soon. Especially considering they haven't been willing to share what metrics they used to make the decision in the first place, or what metrics will be used to decide when they'd be willing to drop it.

Basically, the new superintendent decided on a Friday afternoon that she was going to require masks for all students across the district (Hamilton Southeastern). No public comment, no board vote.

As far as I can tell, no one has any idea what the numbers would have to drop to before she allows kids to ditch the masks.

 

[HoughMade]

My kids' school district went to a mask mandate about two weeks after classes started, so mid-August. Somehow I doubt the drop in numbers will lead them to drop the masks anytime soon. Especially considering they haven't been willing to share what metrics they used to make the decision in the first place, or what metrics will be used to decide when they'd be willing to drop it.

Basically, the new superintendent decided on a Friday afternoon that she was going to require masks for all students across the district (Hamilton Southeastern). No public comment, no board vote.

As far as I can tell, no one has any idea what the numbers would have to drop to before she allows kids to ditch the masks.

Yeah. I feel for you. For kids, especially young kids, compliance will be nearly impossible to enforce. It just makes everyone uncomfortable. Also, at this point, I would think there would be more definitive evidence that masks make a profound difference...if such evidence existed.

I leave the door open that there may be situations where masks may reduce the rate of transmission...but the evidence just isn't there to force people to wear masks who don't want to. Even assuming that the gvt. has the authority to issue a mask mandate (a whole other issue), before it would do so, I would hope that it would have objective evidence, not only that masks significantly reduce spread, but that there is a significant reduction in spread to people who voluntarily wear masks from people who do not. Otherwise, why mandate it? That, most certainly, isn't out there.

Anyhoo, at the other end of educational spectrum, my older daughter is a senior at a college in Chicago. They started the year with few restrictions, but as they got more cases....more restrictions. At this point, the COVID has ripped through the place and, essentially, at this point, everyone is either vaccinated or has had it. The absurdity of making the kids wear masks in line at the dining hall and in classrooms, in the library...but obviously not in the dorm, should be obvious to all.

We went to visit a college in more rural Illinois for my younger daughter last Friday. They have a "mask inside" policy which, I guess, coincides with Illinois, but compliance was...inconsistent. I had forgotten how annoying masks were, especially at 87 degrees and high humidity.

No one asked me, but once the vaccinations were available to all, for me it would have been- no restrictions and make your own choices. Well, outside of school, that's essentially where most of Indiana is anyway.

 

[Keith_Indy]

My kids' school district went to a mask mandate about two weeks after classes started, so mid-August. Somehow I doubt the drop in numbers will lead them to drop the masks anytime soon. Especially considering they haven't been willing to share what metrics they used to make the decision in the first place, or what metrics will be used to decide when they'd be willing to drop it.

Basically, the new superintendent decided on a Friday afternoon that she was going to require masks for all students across the district (Hamilton Southeastern). No public comment, no board vote.

As far as I can tell, no one has any idea what the numbers would have to drop to before she allows kids to ditch the masks.

I can help draft a letter when I'm off work, but this is the way to get this information.

Indiana FOIA Laws – National Freedom of Information Coalition

www.nfoic.org

Indiana Sample FOIA Request – National Freedom of Information Coalition

www.nfoic.org

Public Records Requests - Hamilton Southeastern Schools

www.hseschools.org

Email all requests to Emily Pace-Abbotts

 

[MCgrease08]

I can help draft a letter when I'm off work, but this is the way to get this information.

Indiana FOIA Laws – National Freedom of Information Coalition

www.nfoic.org

Indiana Sample FOIA Request – National Freedom of Information Coalition

www.nfoic.org

Public Records Requests - Hamilton Southeastern Schools

www.hseschools.org

Email all requests to Emily Pace-Abbotts

Thanks. I sent emails directly to the Superintendent and via the district contact form when the announcement was made but never got any type of response or even an acknowledgement that it had been received.

I made sure to stay polite, empathize with staff tasked with making these difficult decisions, etc. but did express disappointment in how the decision was made and communicated. I included links to data countering what little reasoning they actually presented as to how they arrived at their decision.

I was considering pulling the kids from school over this or sending them without masks, but I am not willing to turn my fourth and first graders into political soccer balls and put a target on their backs. Their mom and I gave them the option to decide if they were willing to wear the masks in order to attend school and see their friends. They both agree they were willing to make that choice. They also know that if they ever decide they don't want to wear the mask anymore, I support that choice 100%.

 

[bobzilla]

My kids' school district went to a mask mandate about two weeks after classes started, so mid-August. Somehow I doubt the drop in numbers will lead them to drop the masks anytime soon. Especially considering they haven't been willing to share what metrics they used to make the decision in the first place, or what metrics will be used to decide when they'd be willing to drop it.

Basically, the new superintendent decided on a Friday afternoon that she was going to require masks for all students across the district (Hamilton Southeastern). No public comment, no board vote.

As far as I can tell, no one has any idea what the numbers would have to drop to before she allows kids to ditch the masks.

Wife works for that district. She can’t wear a mask all day due to severe asthma and the restriction on her ability to breathe. She wears a face shield instead. She’s had students pulled over it. That district has been virtue signaling for some time. Last summer she was made to read “growing up white” and give something she was ashamed for because she was white. This is no different than the mask mandates.

 

[Tombs]