AR purchase

[churchmouse]

So let me ask since cheap "less expensive" seems to be on some people's minds, if less expensive guns are so good why upgrade? Why get the better trigger or barrel or any other part? You wouldn't put cheap ammo in ur guns and maybe it works or blows up in ur face, I was being told that there is a few "good quality" brands to look at and that's all I wanted, who doesn't want a good first gun? Does that mean I'm gonna buy a larue tactical rifle, no I'd love to but that's not in my budget or need now, so I will be looking at the brands people have mentioned and make the right choice or keep saving $$

Well.....why buy a cheap used Harley and then dump the national debt into it...........Because we want to and to some it is fun.

Same with a fire arm.
Bought a new TRP once and was not pleased that it would not run with a Milspec I built up. Dumped the guts and put stupid money in it. Loke has already been stated....you will live with the gun or loose you butt when you want/need to sell it.

 

[KG1]

Well.....why buy a cheap used Harley and then dump the national debt into it...........Because we want to and to some it is fun.

Same with a fire arm.
Bought a new TRP once and was not pleased that it would not run with a Milspec I built up. Dumped the guts and put stupid money in it. Like has already been stated....you will live with the gun or loose you butt when you want/need to sell it.

I cannot confirm or deny that I may or may not have put "stupid money" into a build or two.

 

[KJQ6945]

Well.....why buy a cheap used Harley and then dump the national debt into it...........Because we want to and to some it is fun.

Same with a fire arm.
Bought a new TRP once and was not pleased that it would not run with a Milspec I built up. Dumped the guts and put stupid money in it. Loke has already been stated....you will live with the gun or loose you butt when you want/need to sell it.

We buy what we like, or dump buckets of money into it to get it there. But, we have to live within our budgets. We can't eat our toys.

 

[burt gummer]

Lol good point, so I just need to find a "quality" rifle that I like and work with it, I know for my optics I'd like to get the flip ups, and when I have the cash get the trijicon, also with the gun I find hope to buy some ammo, like I said I'm heading to beach grove to check some rifles out

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So let me ask since cheap "less expensive" seems to be on some people's minds, if less expensive guns are so good why upgrade? Why get the better trigger or barrel or any other part? You wouldn't put cheap ammo in ur guns and maybe it works or blows up in ur face...

Let's address the cheap ammo comparison first. That's the marketing, the salesman who wants to make more money, and forum member who want to spend your money rather than actually help you get closer to your goals. I'll patiently wait while anyone here tries to tell you a S&W will blow up in your face, will not run reliably, or will perform better in any metric that's important to your stated goals.

As far as swapping parts, there's a certain amount of hobbyist involved. It's a toy to play with and decorate. There's also chasing hardware thinking it will make you a better shooter. The same idea as buying whatever new pistol the gun magazines say is the greatest but never taking a training class. As I already mentioned, the facotry S&W will shoot 1" at 100y. Are you better than that? Then what's a new barrel going to do for you? Longevity? If you manage to shoot it out to the point it loses accuracy (which will likely take tens of thousands of rounds unless you are exceptionally abusive)...then get a new barrel at that time. Triggers are pretty personal and depend on what you're going to do with it. An ultra-light trigger may be fine on a varmint rifle but not so much on a defensive rifle. FWIW, I just use the GI trigger. Shoot it a lot, it smooths up quite nicely, and it does everything I want it to do. Pistol grips and stocks are all personal preference, what fits you and what feels good to your hands. Expensive may be better, it may not be, the trick is it fits you. The only thing I tend to do to my rifles is an ergonomic pistol grip, rail for a light, a quality sling, and a red dot.

Now, let's take a look at the protection aspect. If you shoot someone, your rifle will be in time out at the property room for awhile. The gun, the sling, the optic, the whole package is going to be unavailable to you for awhile. How long 'awhile' is, varies but could be quite substantial. My primary is in time out as I write this, but my employer gives me a replacement in the mean time. Who's giving you your replacement? Can you afford a second identically set up gun? If you actually will shoot enough to break a rifle (which is a tiny hand full of AR owners) then two identically set up guns, one that's shot enough to be well vetted and then put away for "real" use and the second for training and practice, can also begin to make sense.

So, look at your real goals. If your goals are owning a boutique name, prestige, or buying incremental differences that do not apply to you or your goals, you've got your answers. If your goal is to become a competent rifleman with protection, range days, etc. as the primary use then you have those answers as well.

 

[rvb]

So let me ask since cheap "less expensive" seems to be on some people's minds, if less expensive guns are so good why upgrade? Why get the better trigger or barrel or any other part? You wouldn't put cheap ammo in ur guns and maybe it works or blows up in ur face, I was being told that there is a few "good quality" brands to look at and that's all I wanted, who doesn't want a good first gun? Does that mean I'm gonna buy a larue tactical rifle, no I'd love to but that's not in my budget or need now, so I will be looking at the brands people have mentioned and make the right choice or keep saving $$

You said this is your first gun...
There a basic AR, say in the 500-800 range. Then you can get a higher end AR, good floated barrel, match trigger, maybe other little things like adjustable gas say in the 800-1300 range. There's real performance gain in that price. Then there's the rediculous expensive guns, full of proprietary parts that don't really accomplish anything other than drive up cost, in the 1500-2000 and on range. I will take the Pepsi challenge with any of my $1000-1300 guns against a $2k gun any day. Those 2k guns aren't actually getting you any real performance. Even in that mid 800-1300 range, if you don't have the experience to KNOW what you like, it'll cost you more eventually.... Things like do you prefer a single or two stage trigger? Do you prefer narrower or thicker Handguards? Do you like standard size or larger grips? So you might as well start with something a little more basic and then as you shoot you'll think things like "gee, these Handguards are a little thick for my taste" and you can either swap the part or trade into something that suits you better. Buy a $2k gun out of the gate, and you are stuck... You won't see a strong resale on it, parts may be proprietary and not much room to change, wrenching on a boutique gun could hurt resale value, etc.

if you were going to configure a really nice $1000 AR today that would be perfect for you, how would you set it up? Could relate it to that car analogy... Sure you could buy a camero when you've never even driven before... you may not know if you'd really prefer an auto or manual or why, but you could use it. You could also buy a Ferrari. Is it going to do anything when you're learning to drive the camero won't? Or the cavalier for that matter? You might think "I got this stick shift because I read on the internet that's the most power to the ground, but it sucks in rush hour on my daily commute."

There are a few exceptions.... Need sometng custom for NRA Highpower, or even 3-gun, there might be some gain from a $2k+ gun (once you've learned to really drive it), but not for your purposes.

that bcm upper with the floated 16" you linked would be perfect. It would be a 1" or better gun with decent ammo, it'll be super reliable. Add a lower with a decent trigger, and you're set for half your initial budget. You won't notice a difference behind the gun whether you spent that extra $1k or not.

-rvb

 

[KG1]

One can get a solid AR in the $900 to $1300 price range that would pretty much do anything you could ever ask of it. No need to break the bank and drop the entire budget on one top tier boutique rifle alone.

 

[rvb]

One last comment on this thread...
you say this is your first gun. First long gun? First AR? Or actually first gun? If really your first gun I would recommend a pistol first. That way you have something that you can also carry, a real day to day defensive arm. OR use your $2k budget to get a more reasonable AR AND a decent pistol. I wouldn't recommend an AR as someone's first/only gun unless they were planning on jumping into a shooting sport...

-rvb

 

[KG1]

One last comment on this thread...
you say this is your first gun. First long gun? First AR? Or actually first gun? If really your first gun I would recommend a pistol first. That way you have something that you can also carry, a real day to day defensive arm. OR use your $2k budget to get a more reasonable AR AND a decent pistol. I wouldn't recommend an AR as someone's first/only gun unless they were planning on jumping into a shooting sport...

-rvb

That's another thought as well. One can get a decent AR and handgun on a $2000 budget. Especially if you're just getting started.

 

[burt gummer]

@rvb it's gonna be my first rifle, and that's what I'm going for the bcm upper and just need a lower, as I said the 2k was just a money goal to get to I don't want to spend the whole thing on a rifle,

 

[KG1]

@rvb it's gonna be my first rifle, and that's what I'm going for the bcm upper and just need a lower, as I said the 2k was just a money goal to get to I don't want to spend the whole thing on a rifle,

I think that's a good choice. A BCM upper will be more than enough AR to suit your needs. Just make sure it's a complete upper including a BCM BCG/CH. Follow it up with quality lower components and you're on the right track. Can't go wrong with BCM IMO.

 

[cbickel]

BCM is a sweet set up for your first AR. Good choice.

 

[Vigilant]

Let's address the cheap ammo comparison first. That's the marketing, the salesman who wants to make more money, and forum member who want to spend your money rather than actually help you get closer to your goals. I'll patiently wait while anyone here tries to tell you a S&W will blow up in your face, will not run reliably, or will perform better in any metric that's important to your stated goals.

As far as swapping parts, there's a certain amount of hobbyist involved. It's a toy to play with and decorate. There's also chasing hardware thinking it will make you a better shooter. The same idea as buying whatever new pistol the gun magazines say is the greatest but never taking a training class. As I already mentioned, the facotry S&W will shoot 1" at 100y. Are you better than that? Then what's a new barrel going to do for you? Longevity? If you manage to shoot it out to the point it loses accuracy (which will likely take tens of thousands of rounds unless you are exceptionally abusive)...then get a new barrel at that time. Triggers are pretty personal and depend on what you're going to do with it. An ultra-light trigger may be fine on a varmint rifle but not so much on a defensive rifle. FWIW, I just use the GI trigger. Shoot it a lot, it smooths up quite nicely, and it does everything I want it to do. Pistol grips and stocks are all personal preference, what fits you and what feels good to your hands. Expensive may be better, it may not be, the trick is it fits you. The only thing I tend to do to my rifles is an ergonomic pistol grip, rail for a light, a quality sling, and a red dot.

Now, let's take a look at the protection aspect. If you shoot someone, your rifle will be in time out at the property room for awhile. The gun, the sling, the optic, the whole package is going to be unavailable to you for awhile. How long 'awhile' is, varies but could be quite substantial. My primary is in time out as I write this, but my employer gives me a replacement in the mean time. Who's giving you your replacement? Can you afford a second identically set up gun? If you actually will shoot enough to break a rifle (which is a tiny hand full of AR owners) then two identically set up guns, one that's shot enough to be well vetted and then put away for "real" use and the second for training and practice, can also begin to make sense.

So, look at your real goals. If your goals are owning a boutique name, prestige, or buying incremental differences that do not apply to you or your goals, you've got your answers. If your goal is to become a competent rifleman with protection, range days, etc. as the primary use then you have those answers as well.

You said this is your first gun...
There a basic AR, say in the 500-800 range. Then you can get a higher end AR, good floated barrel, match trigger, maybe other little things like adjustable gas say in the 800-1300 range. There's real performance gain in that price. Then there's the rediculous expensive guns, full of proprietary parts that don't really accomplish anything other than drive up cost, in the 1500-2000 and on range. I will take the Pepsi challenge with any of my $1000-1300 guns against a $2k gun any day. Those 2k guns aren't actually getting you any real performance. Even in that mid 800-1300 range, if you don't have the experience to KNOW what you like, it'll cost you more eventually.... Things like do you prefer a single or two stage trigger? Do you prefer narrower or thicker Handguards? Do you like standard size or larger grips? So you might as well start with something a little more basic and then as you shoot you'll think things like "gee, these Handguards are a little thick for my taste" and you can either swap the part or trade into something that suits you better. Buy a $2k gun out of the gate, and you are stuck... You won't see a strong resale on it, parts may be proprietary and not much room to change, wrenching on a boutique gun could hurt resale value, etc.

if you were going to configure a really nice $1000 AR today that would be perfect for you, how would you set it up? Could relate it to that car analogy... Sure you could buy a camero when you've never even driven before... you may not know if you'd really prefer an auto or manual or why, but you could use it. You could also buy a Ferrari. Is it going to do anything when you're learning to drive the camero won't? Or the cavalier for that matter? You might think "I got this stick shift because I read on the internet that's the most power to the ground, but it sucks in rush hour on my daily commute."

There are a few exceptions.... Need sometng custom for NRA Highpower, or even 3-gun, there might be some gain from a $2k+ gun (once you've learned to really drive it), but not for your purposes.

that bcm upper with the floated 16" you linked would be perfect. It would be a 1" or better gun with decent ammo, it'll be super reliable. Add a lower with a decent trigger, and you're set for half your initial budget. You won't notice a difference behind the gun whether you spent that extra $1k or not.

-rvb

Aside from the OP's gunstore, no one has pointed him to a $2k rifle, pretty much everyone said buy a QUALITY AR, and spend the rest on ammo, optics, and training out of his stated $2K budget. I will say, in many carbine classes over the last few years, the S&W M&P AR was considerably less than a stellar performer. I've also seen the same do very well. Colt, BCM, or LMT, all have proven track records, and are recommended by folks that don't get paid to recommend them. DD as well, but they have more paid sookesfolks than most of the others. I'm not a fan of cheap ARs, pretty much everyone knows that, your tax dollars were spent on paying me to build these very same things for a few years. I've found, between building, fixing, and buying, there is a common denominator. QUALITY WORKS, nearly every time. On the converse side, parst ain't freaking parts, and contrary to popular belief, there is a difference. My only "off brand" AR is a SIG M400 Enhanced. It seems to work well over the course of 3000 rounds, but I'm still skeptical because of all the proprietary weirdness inherent to it. OP, buy what you want and can afford, you've had good advice, mediocre advice, and poor advice. You decide, it's your money! You can send 100 people to a free steak dinner, with all the trimmings, some dumbass is still gonna want chicken?

 

[Tactically Fat]

I cannot confirm or deny that I may or may not have put "stupid money" into a build or two.

You should see my Ruger 22/45 some day. Ahem.

 

[WebSnyper]

My goal was not efficient transportation, my goal was fun. A cavalier would not meet that goal, but the Camaro SS does. You changed the goals, which of course changes the answers. If my stated goal was "reliable efficient transportation", that'd be relevant. The OP's stated goal, likewise, is not prestige:




If the OP's actual goal is prestige, no problem, buy prestige. However I responded to his STATED goals. To better attain those goals, he is better served by a cheaper rifle, leaving more budget for a decent optic, training, and practice. That will make him more able to defend himself than a $2k rifle and no budget left for those things.



See above. If someone wants to learn to defend themselves, spending that much on hardware is ridiculous, particularly for a rookie just learning the ropes. If you were relying on someone to help protect your house, would you rather have the guy with a $2k rifle or the guy with a $600 rifle and $1400 of training and practice sessions?

My brother from another mother. This was where I was going when I asked my question.

 

[dtkw]

Both of the brand the gunshop recommended you are overpriced and over hyped. Like many suggestions, you don't need to spend 2K on an AR, I got my SW M&P 15T for $1,100 with a scope on, but I changed it. I can hit the targets at 100 yards with it. No issue what soever. You just need to learn how to clean it right after shootings.

 

[LPMan59]

Colt 6920 $900
Aimpoint Pro $400
10 pak Magpul Pmags $100
2 cases of wolf gold $600
total: $2000

 

[rvb]

You just need to learn how to clean it right after shootings.

you're supposed to clean them??

-rvb

 

[burt gummer]

So iv heard good and bad advice but I haven't had a chance yet to fire anything so iv kinda narrowed the list to bcm, colt, black rain ordnance, Daniel defense, maybe even spikes tactical

 

[AngryRooster]

Colt 6920 $900
Aimpoint Pro $400
10 pak Magpul Pmags $100
2 cases of wolf gold $600
total: $2000

I'm too tired to drag all this out tonight, but seeing all of it gathered up would make a nice visual for what you could have instead of just a single boutique rifle alone. I may do that tomorrow if I feel up to it.