9-11 museum to include hijackers perspective (NON-emotional discussion thread)

[femurphy77]

Oh, so you're of the opinion that we're to be governed by "powers that be"? That clears up a lot.

I made a generalization about the Government and one of the tasks that the American people expect from them, to be able to go to the grocery store without a truck bomb going off in the parking lot. Perhaps you should go back and re-read what I wrote. So who's putting words in somebody elses mouth? Continue arguing with yourself, it's undoubtedly the most intelligent conversation you'll have all day. Oh and thanks for the neg rep, it meant so little too me

 

[mettle]

I made a generalization about the Government and one of the tasks that the American people expect from them, to be able to go to the grocery store without a truck bomb going off in the parking lot. Perhaps you should go back and re-read what I wrote. So who's putting words in somebody elses mouth? Continue arguing with yourself, it's undoubtedly the most intelligent conversation you'll have all day. Oh and thanks for the neg rep, it meant so little too me

Shame on your for not participating in their power game, you are so closed minded... Muslim extremist hater!!

 

[tyrajam]

I DID say the reason they attack us IS because of our meddling in their Countries.

Savage, you are entitled to your opinion, but I wholeheartedly disagree. The root cause is the people in these countries have been bankrupted by corrupt leaders and are held in a powerless state to improve their lives. The rulers need someone to blame. We could debate the causes for hours, but I know your side and hopefully you know mine, so lets not waste time.

And Biggus, you said

There are Americans out there who don't have their heads in the sand. NO LESS AMERICAN!

There are people out there who disagree with you. NO LESS AMERICAN!

I sickens me how much consistently closed minded commentary there is here. I believe there majority of it comes from a handful of people... these people are the ones who think everybody should think just like them... THIS is LESS AMERICAN.

The hilarious part is you don't even recognize your own hypocrisy, since I don't think like you I am closed minded and have my head in the sand??? Re read your post buddy.

Paco, I loved your great non emotional, rational point!

Now, heads back into the sand. It's too sensitive for a non-emotional discussion today.

Everyone who disagrees with you is over emotional and has their head in the sand. Talk about an epic fail at logic.

 

[SavageEagle]

Wow. Just wow. Agree to disagree because this could turn bad. Leave it at that.

 

[tyrajam]

SA, no need for anything to turn bad. I read your posts on the other 9/11 museum thread and agreed 100% with you. You made excellent points and you are right, this is a somber day to remember those who died. I liked your link on flag day also.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

. The root cause is the people in these countries have been bankrupted by corrupt leaders and are held in a powerless state to improve their lives. The rulers need someone to blame..

I happen to believe this ^ . Beyond this I don't care what their perspective is , only what their actions are .

I believe they should be severely punished for their actions .

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Paco, I loved your great non emotional, rational point! Everyone who disagrees with you is over emotional and has their head in the sand. Talk about an epic fail at logic.

Uh, no. Simply no. They were specifically stating that this was too emotional for today. I was just regurgitating what seems to be the vocal minority's rudely stated opinion.

I've received nearly 100 positive rep points and the detractors seem to only number around a loud-mouthed 15-20 individuals who feel it's their goal to prevent any sort of logical dialogue about 9/11 & the history behind it.

So, while the people who've been typing emotional vitriol are steering the thread, there seem to be even more who aren't willing to say what's on their minds for fear of the internet-bullies, but they are in agreement with me to some extent.

 

[rambone]

What lesson about the attackers would you have the victims' families learn when they visit the museum?

 

[bigus_D]

And Biggus, you said ...

The hilarious part is you don't even recognize your own hypocrisy, since I don't think like you I am closed minded and have my head in the sand??? Re read your post buddy.

tyrajam.

I didn't say that YOU are closed minded. Honestly, I hadn't really noticed your posts. I went back and re-read the thread and found that I generally disagree with your opinions, but that they are at least based in a reality that I can understand. However, if you are now suggesting that disagreeing with you is un-american (the sort of assertion that I was actually attesting against), then perhaps I understand why you took such offense to my commentary.

 

[haldir]

(CNSNews.com) – A new survey gauging Muslim attitudes indicates that backing for suicide bombings against civilians, while generally down from earlier years, remains significant in some Islamic countries – challenging the assertion that Muslims supporting terrorism constitute a “tiny minority.”
In the Pew Global Attitudes Project poll released on Thursday, 68 percent of Palestinian Muslim respondents said suicide bombings against civilians were justifiable “to defend Islam from its enemies.”

That view was shared by 43 percent of respondents in Nigeria and 38 percent in Lebanon, where 51 percent of Shi’ites held the view compared to 25 percent of Sunnis.

Elsewhere, the proportion of Muslim respondents supporting suicide bombings against civilians was 15 percent in Egypt, 13 percent in Indonesia, 12 percent in Jordan, seven percent in Israel (Muslim Arab citizens), five percent in Pakistan and four percent in Turkey.

Of the eight countries polled, support for suicide bombings increased since last year in five of them.

On the other hand, this year’s results show a decline over the period since 2002.

Pakistan recorded the most striking drop: In 2004, 41 percent of respondents justified suicide terrorism, whereas the number recorded this year was five percent. Terrorism has surged in Pakistan since 2007, and this year alone, at least 750 people had been killed and 2,276 injured in 365 bombings inside Pakistan as of the end of August, according to figures compiled by the South Asia Terrorism Portal in New Delhi.

The Pew survey also found although majorities in Nigeria (54 percent) and the Palestinian territories (52 percent) expressed “confidence in the al Qaeda leader [Osama bin Laden] to do the right thing regarding world affairs.”

In the other countries surveyed, the Saudi terrorist enjoyed the backing of 28 percent of respondents in Jordan, 25 percent in Indonesia, 23 percent in Egypt, 18 percent in Pakistan, 16 percent in Israel, four percent in Lebanon and two percent in Turkey.

The biggest drop in support for bin Laden was measured in Indonesia (down 34 points since 2003), Jordan (down 28 points) and Pakistan (down 28 points). The trend in Nigeria was in the opposite direction – up 10 points since 2003....
I feel so much better that we just misunderstand their peaceful intentions. Those are stats... not emotion.

 

[Joe Williams]

tyrajam, I've received nearly 80 points of positive rep from this thread. Apparently some people appreciate what I've said here. I specifically titled the thread so that you would know the content before coming in to read it.

I only gave 1 negative rep to 1 person who was being quite rude. I did so, primarily, so that I could send him a message w/out giving him unwarranted positive rep.

Now, heads back into the sand. It's too sensitive for a non-emotional discussion today. Don't you know it's been exactly 2,923 days since the events of 9/11? Obviously it's not been long enough to have any useful discussion about it yet.

Now you have received more negative rep. Your repeated head in the sand comments about those of us who do not share your desire to find a way to legitimize the actions of terrorists is disgusting, as is your attitude, and this thread in general.

Yeah, it's emotional. I get that way when people kill Americans, then vermin from within try to find a way to blame us.

 

[SavageEagle]

In the Pew Global Attitudes Project poll released on Thursday, 68 percent of Palestinian Muslim respondents said suicide bombings against civilians were justifiable “to defend Islam from its enemies.”

That view was shared by 43 percent of respondents in Nigeria and 38 percent in Lebanon, where 51 percent of Shi’ites held the view compared to 25 percent of Sunnis.

I feel so much better that we just misunderstand their peaceful intentions. Those are stats... not emotion.

Man, I thought the Sh'ites were on our side, not the Sunnis. The Sunnis made up Saddam's regime and that's who we are being biased against. Us as in the US Gooberment. Not us here on INGO.

So what gives? If they're such good people, why do they support suicide attacks on CIVILIANS?????

 

[BloodEclipse]

The PRO-emotional thread started by femurphy77 is going to be here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._museum_to_include_hijackers_perspective.html

I thought it might be nice to make a place for people to discuss the 9/11 Museum's decision without it devolving into a ranting circle jerk about how people with brown skin hate our freedoms & need to die. I'm genuinely trying to help by creating a parallel thread about something I view as important & I hope to have some GOOD non-emotional discussion in here.

PS: Please refrain from using empty words such as crazies, wingnuts, moonbats, whackjobs, evil, etc. They add nothing to the discussion.

The article is here: New York's Sept 11 museum to display hijacker perspective - Yahoo! News

My non-emotional thoughts:

Obviously, the reason for Jihad terrorism isn't because they hate our freedoms. Oppression is the way of life in the Middle East. There are MANY world events & guilty parties, mostly in the name of cheap oil, which have destabilized the region & turned the average lives of Middle Easterners into crap.

However, this, in no way, excuses terrorism, nor justifies it's employment.

I think it's important to understand the mindset & motivation of those who seek to harm us. Just as there's value in reading Mein Kampf & learning about the lies told to German citizens & the national fervor which led to the Holocaust.

Please keep in mind that these hijackers were children at some point. I find it very interesting to consider what happened in their lives that made them hate us so much as to hop on some airplanes & crash them into skyscrapers. It's not because they're brown, it's not because they're Muslims, & it's not because they live in sand... It's because they felt oppressed & they came to see the WTC as a symbol of their oppression.

I, personally, do not see any value in remaining ignorant of the motivation behind detestable deeds. It helps us to better understand human nature & reaffirms the importance of being good international neighbors through diplomacy (not entangling alliances & war) & rendering real international aid when/where aid is really needed.

Based on the article, I do not believe they are trying to raise up the hijackers as either martyrs nor heroes. Knowledge is power.

It's because they felt oppressed & they came to see the WTC as a symbol of their oppression.

Excuse me if I think you are full of crap.

They got mixed up in their religion and came to hate everyone who didn't "Share their view". That includes other Muslims who were moderate. You want the root cause or are you just happy with the "Blame America" line?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042801315.html

" Talking one week of Kosovo, the next of Chechnya or Afghanistan, the "men were agreed: they wanted to fight -- they just didn't know which war."

 

[fpdshooter]

You guys have no idea the depths of my hatred toward those who perpetrated this act, and those who supported them.

This hatred will never be diminished. I, for one, look forward to the day every one of these savages are dead.

To those of you doing God's work...keep at it, you know who you are.

 

[joslar15]

tyrajam, I've received nearly 80 points of positive rep from this thread. Apparently some people appreciate what I've said here. I specifically titled the thread so that you would know the content before coming in to read it.

I only gave 1 negative rep to 1 person who was being quite rude. I did so, primarily, so that I could send him a message w/out giving him unwarranted positive rep.

Now, heads back into the sand. It's too sensitive for a non-emotional discussion today. Don't you know it's been exactly 2,923 days since the events of 9/11? Obviously it's not been long enough to have any useful discussion about it yet.

Paco, please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think your head isn't in the sand....

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

I think that the answers to "who?" and "why?" have been answered many times already by many military and civilian writers (James Bamford comes to mind). After accumulating my library of 100+ books that I have over the last five years I think that I have a pretty good grasp of the subject. Before that I was a Cryptographer for Naval Intelligence during the Persian Gulf War on ships and on shore.

My head is not in the metaphorical sand, my eyes are open and my ears hear.

To this day I cannot forgive nor forget what was done to us on 9/11/2001. Yes, it has been eight years since this happened. Eight years is not long enough for me to heal from this injury because I know what it takes in Intelligence resources, military might and civilian support to understand and fight these people that have done us harm in the past and continue to work to the same again.

Paco, I'm not going to send negative rep to you, not because I agree with your position but in spite of it. You may consider me "one of the loudmouths" that you talked about, it doesn't bother me a bit. I have put boots on the ground in the fight and I have filled my mind with the facts as a civilian to try to keep history from repeating itself. I understand the motives of the people that hurt us but I can't excuse them.

 

[Jay]

I'm genuinely trying to help

Help who? Did you ever, in your wildest hallucinations, which you have obviously been blessed with an abundance of...... consider that many of us on here didn't need, or want any help? You have an absolute right to your opinion. You've stated it. Others have stated theirs. You can go away now. You know how much value you place on rep points...

C'mere.... sit..... roll over..... I'll give you a rep point if you go away..... c'mon........

Spook, he can't grasp the concept of experience. All that liberal education has left no room ....... In some cases, knowledge is power. In other cases such as here, it may generate a false sense of superiority.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Now you have received more negative rep. Your repeated head in the sand comments about those of us who do not share your desire to find a way to legitimize the actions of terrorists is disgusting, as is your attitude, and this thread in general.

Yeah, it's emotional. I get that way when people kill Americans, then vermin from within try to find a way to blame us.

I never mentioned Legitimizing nor Blaming us.

While some have their heads in the sand, yours is in a much darker place.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Excuse me if I think you are full of crap.

They got mixed up in their religion and came to hate everyone who didn't "Share their view". That includes other Muslims who were moderate. You want the root cause or are you just happy with the "Blame America" line?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042801315.html

Please show me where I blamed America. SavageEagle alluded to it, but I never mentioned it & I don't necessarily believe it myself.

I stated that they are oppressed (I did not say by who) & I stated that they came to view the WTC as a symbol of their oppression, though I did not say who led them to that point of view.

Head out of arse please. I'm not trying to justify terrorism. Merely understand the catalysts.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Please show me where I blamed America. SavageEagle alluded to it, but I never mentioned it & I don't necessarily believe it myself.

I stated that they are oppressed (I did not say by who) & I stated that they came to view the WTC as a symbol of their oppression, though I did not say who led them to that point of view.

Head out of arse please. I'm not trying to justify terrorism. Merely understand the catalysts.

They wanted to kill anyone, enter any battlefield in the name of their religion. It had nothing to do with the WTC. The WTC was chosen by Bin Laden and the higher ups in Al Queida to cause the maximum amount of terror. It had nothing to do with poor Arabs seeing the WTC as a symbol of their oppression.
I might add however that would be the kind of garbage that would be on display in the museum.