9-11 museum to include hijackers perspective (NON-emotional discussion thread)

[bigus_D]

I like how the cricket is a real positive contribution to the conversation.

now, where did that sarcasm smilie go???

 

[printcraft]

Let's try this discussion again - ON ANOTHER DAY!

Not this national day of service according to dear leader.

Leave the PC crap at the door and pick another day.

 

[Eprobertson1]

Personally, without emotion, If you feel that terrorists have a side to this or any other plot against the US and the Citizens of the US - You should board a plane - go to their country and renounce your US citizenship.

 

[Fletch]

I agree with Paco that we need to understand our opponents beyond the childish "they're evil and we're not" dichotomy. However, I also agree with Rambone:

The lessons from Hitler, or the 9/11 hijackers, are analysis best left to books, not memorial sites of their countless victims. It is distasteful, and just isn't done.

Frankly, I don't find museums and memorials all that educational to begin with, and I think it's probably better to leave the education to the materials and media best suited for it. I live near the Oklahoma City bombing memorial, have been there a time or two, and don't see a lot of time or space devoted to understanding why it happened. It's only in a few books (Harvest of Rage comes to mind) that any serious contemplation has taken place. I don't think that detracts from the memorial's usefulness; to the contrary, it focuses it (though frankly I think the memorial is rather overdone). But it's just not a place where any rational analysis or discussion can really occur, so why try to make it one?

 

[bigus_D]

From Ender's Game:
There is no teacher but the enemy.

I've never read comic books or very much science fiction... This sounds like an interesting bit of light reading. I may just check it out.

 

[Jay]

Printcraft, you're right..... not today.....

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Alright, let's pause this thread.

Tomorrow, I expect open-minded, logical discussion from all of you.

For today though:

 

[SavageEagle]

We KNOW why they did it. They wanted to cripple us finacially. They were beyond pissed with our meddling in their affairs they wanted us out of their land. It's all they wanted. All we wanted was their oil. They despised us for that. We overthrew entire regimes and replaced them with more oppressive ones. They hate us for that. We support Israel, they hate us for that.

That is the entire motivation behind 9/11. It's well documented. We know WHY they did it. Now, can we get back to the discussion of how to do this....

 

[tyrajam]

Paco, the problem is not that we are too emotional today and we need to try again later. The problem is we are not interested in "understanding" people that kill innocent men, women, and children by the thousands. I think it is worth looking at motives to try to prevent further attacks, but the hijackers perspective, at the 9/11 museum?? Like I said, thats like putting Mein Kampf in a holocost museum.

And just pecause the majority of people here disagree with you does not mean you should hand out neg reps and then decide no one should post because they are making you look bad. You said to leave out emotions, but you are the one throwing a tantrum. Try something else, I for one am done with this thread.

 

[mettle]

So freakin' S I C K of hearing about the Muslim and his 'plite' about how their actions are justified or that they should be considered before we begin to bomb them....

so freakin' S I C K of having a Muslim president shoving new muslim friendly laws and rules and speeches into my face...

He is a muslim and a traitor... and those who wish to do my family harm b/c of my beliefs vs. theirs will take 1 between the eyes...

 

[The Meach]

Its a museum people. Not a memorial. Its ment to show history. and that is part of history.

 

[tyrajam]

Savage, I'm sorry, but are you joking?? You really think that the last couple of decades of us being involved in foreign affairs has caused the mess that has been in the middle east for the last 3000 years? And by overthrowing oppresive regimes and replacing them with more repressive regimes, you mean like us helping them defeat the Russians and set up their own rulers? Then 30 years later helping them out the taliban? All the while pumping billions into their economy with foreign aid and buying their oil? I hope you post was sarcasm, I never thought you were a kool-aid drinker.

 

[SavageEagle]

Savage, I'm sorry, but are you joking?? You really think that the last couple of decades of us being involved in foreign affairs has caused the mess that has been in the middle east for the last 3000 years? And by overthrowing oppresive regimes and replacing them with more repressive regimes, you mean like us helping them defeat the Russians and set up their own rulers? Then 30 years later helping them out the taliban? All the while pumping billions into their economy with foreign aid and buying their oil? I hope you post was sarcasm, I never thought you were a kool-aid drinker.

You didn't seriously read my post. I didn't say our Country caused their dumb issues. I DID say the reason they attack us IS because of our meddling in their Countries. Surely after 9/11 you seeked to know WHY they attacked us, right? You heard they outcries at our meddling? You read the reasons from the hijackers and bi Laden? From Muslims everywhere protesting our presence in the Middle East and our support of Israel?

Someone tell this guy in better terms than I can about all this. I just can't do it right now.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Paco, the problem is not that we are too emotional today and we need to try again later. The problem is we are not interested in "understanding" people that kill innocent men, women, and children by the thousands.

tyrajam, I've received nearly 80 points of positive rep from this thread. Apparently some people appreciate what I've said here. I specifically titled the thread so that you would know the content before coming in to read it.

I only gave 1 negative rep to 1 person who was being quite rude. I did so, primarily, so that I could send him a message w/out giving him unwarranted positive rep.

Now, heads back into the sand. It's too sensitive for a non-emotional discussion today. Don't you know it's been exactly 2,923 days since the events of 9/11? Obviously it's not been long enough to have any useful discussion about it yet.

 

[mettle]

Some people have emotion invested into this country; they are called patriots, real Americans...

good for you for you 'rep' points. That should make you a hero someday...

tyrajam, I've received nearly 80 points of positive rep from this thread. Apparently some people appreciate what I've said here. I specifically titled the thread so that you would know the content before coming in to read it.

I only gave 1 negative rep to 1 person who was being quite rude. I did so, primarily, so that I could send him a message w/out giving him unwarranted positive rep.

Now, heads back into the sand. It's too sensitive for a non-emotional discussion today. Don't you know it's been exactly 2,923 days since the events of 9/11? Obviously it's not been long enough to have any useful discussion about it yet.

 

[femurphy77]

Paco I think what you have is a group of people that believe the powers that be, those that are supposed to prevent this from happening again already know WHY and are using this info to prevent another 9-11. For anyone to step into any venue full of typical Americans and try to tell them WHY we should see it from the perspective of the enemy is folly. It doesn't matter what day it is, and I hope it'll never matter what year it is. Know your enemy, yes, justify his actions, NO. A group of internet commandos trying to convince each other that the other is clueless is ridiculous. Two different issues are being discussed here and I don't believe there is a way for anybody touched by these events to truly seperate the two discusssions. It appears that your tactic to start a parallel thread has caused even more discontent about this subject and maybe those of us that feel that SEs' ground zero ocean is a viable alternative and those of us that feel we should embrace the reasoning for our enemies action should agree to disagree and find something else to discuss. Whip cream from a can versus Cool Whip for instance. See you all next week, unless I get called in this weekend!!

 

[bigus_D]

MAN... this is the same crap the republicans liked to say when Bush was in office. "Oh, so you are questioning the president??? HOW UN-AMERICAN"

There are Americans out there with different opinions. NO LESS AMERICAN.

There are Americans out there who don't have their heads in the sand. NO LESS AMERICAN!

There are people out there who disagree with you. NO LESS AMERICAN!

I sickens me how much consistently closed minded commentary there is here. I believe there majority of it comes from a handful of people... these people are the ones who think everybody should think just like them... THIS is LESS AMERICAN.

(I'll take my negative reps off the air, thank you.)

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Paco I think what you have is a group of people that believe the powers that be, those that are supposed to prevent this from happening again already know WHY and are using this info to prevent another 9-11.

Oh, so you're of the opinion that we're to be governed by "powers that be"? That clears up a lot.

 

[Fletch]

Right on, Bigus. Saying someone is stupid or evil just because they disagree with you is the worst form of self-aggrandizing narcissism. It also doesn't tend to make much of a point.

 

[ihateiraq]

it was a valiant effort paco.