Will you take the Covid Vaccine?

[mbills2223]

You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

I have never claimed some conspiracy theory level cover up here. I have simply claimed a general distrust for people who say “Just do it and trust us”. Those people have not earned my trust yet.

I mean, if this is the hill you want to die on, then so be it. We are all adults here and can make up our own damn minds. But to belittle others for a difference of opinion and make a half assed attempt to discredit that opinion is juvenile at best. You can do better.

If you want the vaccine, then get the damn vaccine. I really don’t care one way or the other. But you don’t see me calling names and trying to make anyone feel stupid because they make that choice. And therein lies the difference between us.

You're counfounding opinion, fact and science.

 

[mbills2223]

Science is never settled though, it's constantly moving. Science does NOT equal fact. If science were a constant we'd still be performing lobotomies

A fair point in the first half of that statement, but I feel the premise of this statement is misleading. There is science, there are facts, there are opinions, hypotheses, etc. Hence why I am trying to maintain consistency in using both terms science and fact. If I missed an incidence, it was an omission.

 

[OneBadV8]

A fair point in the first half of that statement, but I feel the premise of this statement is misleading. There is science, there are facts, there are opinions, hypotheses, etc. Hence why I am trying to maintain consistency in using both terms science and fact. If I missed an incidence, it was an omission.

my only point is people who say others should be ok with something because of the "science" are questioning it, because science should also continue to question it. There are new discoveries every single day. I personally won't be getting the vaccine, at least not any of the mRNA versions. I'm not comfortable with the amount of data and/or trials yet.

If you're comfortable with it, that's great. You should get it. But don't make it sound like people who don't agree don't trust science. There's just not enough science yet for me personally.

 

[JettaKnight]

my only point is people who say others should be ok with something because of the "science" are questioning it, because science should also continue to question it. There are new discoveries every single day. I personally won't be getting the vaccine, at least not any of the mRNA versions. I'm not comfortable with the amount of data and/or trials yet.

If you're comfortable with it, that's great. You should get it. But don't make it sound like people who don't agree don't trust science. There's just not enough science yet for me personally.

That's a fair point. But the counter is folks that cherry pick a point where "science" was wrong.

So let's get to a real data point: How many trials would you be comfortable with? What are some similar medicines you take and how many trials were done on them? This vaccine was created from whole cloth, but using tried and true techniques. AFAIK, the warp speed part of all of this endeavor was to cut through the endless red tape, not short circuiting actual trials.


Right now, I take a statin for high cholesterol, I have absolutely no clue what trials were conducted on that - and I put that in my body every single day; but that's not a current hot potato.

 

[OneBadV8]

That's a fair point. But the counter is folks that cherry pick a point where "science" was wrong.

So let's get to a real data point: How many trials would you be comfortable with? What are some similar medicines you take and how many trials were done on them? This vaccine was created from whole cloth, but using tried and true techniques. AFAIK, the warp speed part of all of this endeavor was to cut through the endless red tape, not short circuiting actual trials.


Right now, I take a statin for high cholesterol, I have absolutely no clue what trials were conducted on that - and I put that in my body every single day; but that's not a current hot potato.

What other vaccines have you taken or people you know taken that are mRNA vaccines?

From my understanding, IF this one is successful it will have been the first of it's kind.

 

[JettaKnight]

What other vaccines have you taken or people you know taken that are mRNA vaccines?

From my understanding, IF this one is successful it will have been the first of it's kind.

I don't know that answer. - it does look like this is the first one to hit production, but certainly not the first that went into trial. Vaccines are tricky market - by the time you get to production, the disease will likely died out; not good for making money.


Here's an interesting explanation of it from 2018.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

 

[Denny347]

But don't make it sound like people who don't agree don't trust science. There's just not enough science yet for me personally.

I think the rub for many is that we see so many people distrust it but have ZERO idea what it actually is. So many people still think this is a dead virus. Or don't even know what mRNA is. While I was convalescing I was reading what I could about this virus and the vaccine. It's quite interesting stuff. NONE of the sources I looked over were questionable. No tweets, no Facebook, nothing that was outside medical schools, research institutions, or public health. It's actually very interesting stuff. We complain about the low information voters (both sides have their share of morons) and those same people are blindly for/against this vaccine. Making an effort to understand the science THEN making an informed decision is the ONLY way to a healthy debate. It seems rare these days.

 

[OneBadV8]

I don't know that answer. - it does look like this is the first one to hit production, but certainly not the first that went into trial. Vaccines are tricky market - by the time you get to production, the disease will likely died out; not good for making money.


Here's an interesting explanation of it from 2018.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

It's just never been done yet. The technology behind it I think is very interesting. However with it being the first, and also with me already getting Covid, I'm not taking the vaccine.

 

[OneBadV8]

I think the rub for many is that we see so many people distrust it but have ZERO idea what it actually is. So many people still think this is a dead virus. Or don't even know what mRNA is. While I was convalescing I was reading what I could about this virus and the vaccine. It's quite interesting stuff. NONE of the sources I looked over were questionable. No tweets, no Facebook, nothing that was outside medical schools, research institutions, or public health. It's actually very interesting stuff. We complain about the low information voters (both sides have their share of morons) and those same people are blindly for/against this vaccine. Making an effort to understand the science THEN making an informed decision is the ONLY way to a healthy debate. It seems rare these days.

I've read up on it, and that's why I'm not comfortable it yet. It does sound like if it goes well, it's some incredible technology that could advance medicine greatly. I'd like to see a lot more trials and long term effects of it though. There are a ton of news articles too about severe side effects from the vaccine itself. Again, I've already had it and had a mild reaction thankfully. So I'm not interested in the vaccine at this time.

 

[Denny347]

50 times as many adverse reactions as the flu vaccine for just the first shot should give everyone pause.

I just looked it up on that CDC site, I think it was 1200 now with nearly 5 million doses. But I don't understand the comparison of the Influenza virus to a Coronavirus. While for some people have similar symptoms from both, they are very different viruses. When I had the flu A (H1-N1) last year, it kicked my butt for 2 weeks. Breathing/lung difficulties. Now, having had COVID-19, I can tell you my body reacted quite differently than the swine flu last year. I had nothing more than a slight drippy nose and loss of smell. Why? Because they are totally different viruses that require different methods to combat them. So when comparing vaccine reactions between Influenza and Coronavirus, it's apples to oranges. Side not, of these reported reactions, we cannot determine which of these were ACTUALLY cause by the vaccine. Much like how we all hoot and holler about the COVID death numbers (numbers being inflated), we can use that same lens to question the reality adverse reactions.

 

[Denny347]

I've read up on it, and that's why I'm not comfortable it yet. It does sound like if it goes well, it's some incredible technology that could advance medicine greatly. I'd like to see a lot more trials and long term effects of it though. There are a ton of news articles too about severe side effects from the vaccine itself. Again, I've already had it and had a mild reaction thankfully. So I'm not interested in the vaccine at this time.

Same here. I want to donate my plasma before I get the vaccine. You cannot donate antibody plasma once you start the vaccine. I was going to get the vaccine next week but now I'm pushing it off. The plasma is VERY sought after as a treatment of those not a lucky as we were with COVID.

 

[OneBadV8]

I just looked it up on that CDC site, I think it was 1200 now with nearly 5 million doses. But I don't understand the comparison of the Influenza virus to a Coronavirus. While for some people have similar symptoms from both, they are very different viruses. When I had the flu A (H1-N1) last year, it kicked my butt for 2 weeks. Breathing/lung difficulties. Now, having had COVID-19, I can tell you my body reacted quite differently than the swine flu last year. I had nothing more than a slight drippy nose and loss of smell. Why? Because they are totally different viruses that require different methods to combat them. So when comparing vaccine reactions between Influenza and Coronavirus, it's apples to oranges. Side not, of these reported reactions, we cannot determine which of these were ACTUALLY cause by the vaccine. Much like how we all hoot and holler about the COVID death numbers (numbers being inflated), we can use that same lens to question the reality adverse reactions.

Not to mention the Vaccines work COMPLETELY different. Another example of apples to oranges.

 

[Hawkeye]

I've been trying to get started volunteering with the VA for about a year now. Did all the start up stuff and then it got put on hold due to COVID.

This morning I got a call from their volunteer services saying that I'm eligible for COVID vaccination through them if I want it. Since I'm 66 and have some risk categories, of course I said yes, please and thank you.

So, now I wait for a call back form their scheduler within the next week or so.

 

[JettaKnight]

It's just never been done yet. The technology behind it I think is very interesting. However with it being the first, and also with me already getting Covid, I'm not taking the vaccine.

What do you mean it's never been done yet? Didn't that article list many trials of mRNA vaccines? This isn't the first go, but it's the first to market.

And if you already got COVID once, well, that changes the calculus for you.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Yeah, you did.

No conspiracy theory there. Just government doing exactly what I expect government to do. The end goal is not more freedom, but more control. They will seize any opportunity to do just that.

 

[Libertarian01]

I had to go to the Fort Wayne VA today to get some medical work done.

While there folks were being ushered into the auditorium to receive the Covid vaccine. If anyone is extremely high risk and a veteran I don't know the details but please contact your VA if this is something for you!

Regards and Good Luck,

Doug

 

[OneBadV8]

What do you mean it's never been done yet? Didn't that article list many trials of mRNA vaccines? This isn't the first go, but it's the first to market.

And if you already got COVID once, well, that changes the calculus for you.

Yep, there have been trials. Not one to market yet. And for something I’m injecting in, I need more data than small trials. I might just be stubborn and bull headed

 

[mbills2223]

Yep, there have been trials. Not one to market yet. And for something I’m injecting in, I need more data than small trials. I might just be stubborn and bull headed

I think the reality is you don't fully understand the science. Let me be crystal clear....that's not an insult. There are differing levels of data to look at. I spent many years in college learning specifically how to interpret data, so I look at primary data. If you aren't familiar with the weeds of the science and don't want to be, primary data will not help you much.

Not knowing something doesn't make people dumb, unwillingness to listen and learn does. Again, just so I'm being clear, I'm not saying you are any of those things.



My approach in this thread has come from a place of anger and frustration. How about I reboot...

I am a drug information expert (yes, vaccines are drugs), AMA about the COVID-19 vaccine.

 

[d.kaufman]

Amazing that 40-60% of health care workers, you know, the ones on the frontlines, are refusing such a safe and effective vaccine.

Large Numbers Of Health Care And Frontline Workers Are Refusing Covid-19 Vaccine

"I've heard Tuskegee more times than I can count in the past month — and, you know, it's a valid, valid concern."

www.forbes.com

I think the reality is you don't fully understand the science. Let me be crystal clear....that's not an insult. There are differing levels of data to look at. I spent many years in college learning specifically how to interpret data, so I look at primary data. If you aren't familiar with the weeds of the science and don't want to be, primary data will not help you much.

Not knowing something doesn't make people dumb, unwillingness to listen and learn does. Again, just so I'm being clear, I'm not saying you are any of those things.



My approach in this thread has come from a place of anger and frustration. How about I reboot...

I am a drug information expert (yes, vaccines are drugs), AMA about the COVID-19 vaccine.

 

[OneBadV8]

I think the reality is you don't fully understand the science. Let me be crystal clear....that's not an insult. There are differing levels of data to look at. I spent many years in college learning specifically how to interpret data, so I look at primary data. If you aren't familiar with the weeds of the science and don't want to be, primary data will not help you much.

Not knowing something doesn't make people dumb, unwillingness to listen and learn does. Again, just so I'm being clear, I'm not saying you are any of those things.



My approach in this thread has come from a place of anger and frustration. How about I reboot...

I am a drug information expert (yes, vaccines are drugs), AMA about the COVID-19 vaccine.

again, I'm not comfortable on long term risks of injecting mRNA into my body that will "reprogram" my immune system to produce different proteins. I understand it'll produce the ones needed to fight COVID the best, however, what other issues does that cause? I don't think we know enough yet for me to be comfortable. You can come draw it out on a whiteboard, and I still won't be comfortable yet.