Why Obama is going to get 4 more years.

[Fletch]

Were we in a less critical time I would agree with you and vote for a third party, and it may very well soon come to a time when I will. But not this election.

It's amazing how we're in a critical time every 4 years... just like clockwork.

 

[Fletch]

Secession is about the security and preservation of Liberty. It is, by definition, not about the preservation of a nation.

Which is of greater importance to you?

Before arguing against secession, folks should visit both Anchorage and New York City. One thing I've learned from traveling and living all over the country is that we are too diverse in terms of culture, daily life, problems, needs, wants, and so forth for a single government to ever be adequate to the task of governing all of us.

 

[.45 Dave]

It's amazing how we're in a critical time every 4 years... just like clockwork.

Yes, I know. Your're right! A lot of those crises are fabricated by the parties to convince us not to break ranks and vote for their candidates. I believe this one is different though.
There is a true crisis, but not exactly the one they are talking about, although some the ramifications from another Obama term are correct. We have to educate ourselves enough to see what the real "crises" are in each election.
It is up to us--you and me--to start really looking at what the dangers are and what is important. The wake up call is for us, too. It has to begin with each of us--you and me.

As I see it, the greatest crisis at the moment is to remove Obama. The next crisis is to start supporting and electing candidates in both the local and national elections that will have the ear of the people, and remove those who don't. It will not be a quick process and we have to stay engaged.

WE have been complacent and lulled into these manufactured panic attacks formulated by both the Dems and the Reps. We start by removing Obama, then we put pressure on the Republicans and Dems by supporting other 3rd party candidates with which we agree.

 

[IndyDave1776]

It's amazing how we're in a critical time every 4 years... just like clockwork.

Also amazing is how once the election is finished, there is no longer any need to worry about the actual problem. It leads me to the conclusion that no one in either party wants to improve anything based on the observation that they never fix any old problems, only use fear as a tool of manipulation regarding potential future exacerbation of old problems and introduction of new ones.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

Were we in a less critical time I would agree with you and vote for a third party, and it may very well soon come to a time when I will. But not this election.

Isnt that what people say EVERY election?

I see a few people beet me to it

 

[mrjarrell]

Congress only managed to pass 80 pieces of legislation last year. That's hardly a sign that things are falling apart. If that's what an Obama presidency results in then I say, bring it on. I'd rather see gridlock than have one party dominate things, we saw what we get with that in the Bush years. Imagine the spending spree we'd get with a Romney presidency and a republican congress. Or Obama with a dem congress. Things aren't at a critical juncture. It's the perfect time to vote your conscience, rather than waste a vote on a candidate who's little better than his opponent. You don't need to eat at BK or McDonald's. You can choose a much better place and get most of what you really want.

 

[.45 Dave]

Congress only managed to pass 80 pieces of legislation last year. That's hardly a sign that things are falling apart. If that's what an Obama presidency results in then I say, bring it on. I'd rather see gridlock than have one party dominate things, we saw what we get with that in the Bush years. Imagine the spending spree we'd get with a Romney presidency and a republican congress. Or Obama with a dem congress. Things aren't at a critical juncture. It's the perfect time to vote your conscience, rather than waste a vote on a candidate who's little better than his opponent. You don't need to eat at BK or McDonald's. You can choose a much better place and get most of what you really want.

How is gridlock progress on any level?

I assume you work. Suppose no one does anything at work and see how long you have a job or your employer stays in business.

Gridlock on a national level IS a sign of things falling apart. A paralyzed man whether he is either physically or emotionally paralyzed, is in no shape to handle the pressures of life, so why is that a good thing on a national level?

We are never going to have a perfect government, nor a Utopian society. It can't happen. But we can act like men and do our best and expect the same out of our government--or else we replace them - one way or the other.

The government may make mistakes and the elected may act selfishly, but that is when WE the people must make our objections heard-very loud, very clear and persistently. Gridlock is not acceptable in national matters anymore than it is on a personal ones.

 

[Fletch]

How is gridlock progress on any level?

I assume you work. Suppose no one does anything at work and see how long you have a job or your employer stays in business.

Gridlock on a national level IS a sign of things falling apart. A paralyzed man whether he is either physically or emotionally paralyzed, is in no shape to handle the pressures of life, so why is that a good thing on a national level?

We are never going to have a perfect government, nor a Utopian society. It can't happen. But we can act like men and do our best and expect the same out of our government--or else we replace them - one way or the other.

The government may make mistakes and the elected may act selfishly, but that is when WE the people must make our objections heard-very loud, very clear and persistently. Gridlock is not acceptable in national matters anymore than it is on a personal ones.

The relationship between government and freedom is that government destroys freedom. So the more active government is, the more freedom is being destroyed. Gridlock is not only acceptable, it's preferable. Gridlock means those ****ers aren't doing anything more to destroy our freedoms. The only situation more preferable than gridlock is a government that doesn't even get out of bed in the morning.

 

[iwearcowboyboots]

It's amazing how we're in a critical time every 4 years... just like clockwork.

Don't you remember back in 1972? Both parties were heavy on the rhetoric of "It doesn't matter who you vote for because we're mostly just the same."

It's way more fun to pretend that elections are more and more critical than any of the previous, especially when the the difference between the R and D candidates get slimmer and slimmer. Patriot Act, Indefinite detention, view on pre-emptive wars, etc etc... These guys are the same. Oh wait, Romney also signed the ban the evil porn thing which gives him a +1 over Obama right?

 

[.45 Dave]

The relationship between government and freedom is that government destroys freedom. So the more active government is, the more freedom is being destroyed. Gridlock is not only acceptable, it's preferable. Gridlock means those ****ers aren't doing anything more to destroy our freedoms. The only situation more preferable than gridlock is a government that doesn't even get out of bed in the morning.

While I certainly agree with you that a more active government that acts outside the will of the people (Obamacare, for example) is not want we want, gridlock causes more problems than it stops. Truly important decisions don't get made either. Things like a national budget, for example, or pay for our troops, or bringing them home from ineffectual theaters of action.
I am not a fan of sending people to Washington to sit on the rears. We must hold these people accountable! How can we do that if we're just paying them to sit there and argue, recess, and argue some more accomplishing nothing?
What we have to do is show them what IS important and force them to act on it. AND to make the decision of the will of the people, not the party nor political expediency, or realize they will be removed one way or another.
Locally, I suggest we start with Lugar. Nationally, we start with Obama.

 

[.45 Dave]

Don't you remember back in 1972? Both parties were heavy on the rhetoric of "It doesn't matter who you vote for because we're mostly just the same."

It's way more fun to pretend that elections are more and more critical than any of the previous, especially when the the difference between the R and D candidates get slimmer and slimmer. Patriot Act, Indefinite detention, view on pre-emptive wars, etc etc... These guys are the same. Oh wait, Romney also signed the ban the evil porn thing which gives him a +1 over Obama right?

I agree. Good points! This is exactly why this election is critical to start the process of removing these people. Put the lesser of the evil in now and remove him later with a better choice. That is the main goal.
It isn't going to happen as a smooth process, nor is it going to happen with one election! It will be a stair step process, with a few backsteps along the way. But the process HAS to start now or we are truly doomed as a free nation. It's our choice--yours and mine.

 

[iwearcowboyboots]

I agree. Good points! This is exactly why this election is critical to start the process of removing these people. Put the lesser of the evil in now and remove him later with a better choice. That is the main goal.
It isn't going to happen as a smooth process, nor is it going to happen with one election! It will be a stair step process, with a few backsteps along the way. But the process HAS to start now or we are truly doomed as a free nation. It's our choice--yours and mine.

Now I am pretty sure you are a Romney staffer trolling. I tease. I tease.

Seriously though, I think I'm finally starting to see your line of thinking. Moderate Romney can lose to Obama just like Moderate McCain did. What's it hurt, they are the same. Obama will continue pushing forward with the Bush administration's agenda (plus a little extra nonsense of his own). The rank and file toe the party line republicans will finally lose all of the local and state elections. Then maybe enough of everyone else will stop voting republican and start voting a third party. Once that third party gets popular, you will then be able to view them as an option. I think it might work!

 

[ATM]

...Put the lesser of the evil in now and remove him later with a better choice. That is the main goal...

It's a flawed goal. By lesser evil, most people are implying the less evil of only the dominant 2. What if the lesser of those 2 just happens to also be the second most evil of all the choices?

Always voting for the second most evil won't ever lead to better choices.

Not to mention, the most evil will still win half the time, lowering the evil window even further for the next cycle's nearly as (yet ever so slightly less) evil challenger.

When exactly will we condone or switch our support to the least evil candidates?

When there's no looming crisis?

 

[Birds Away]

Why Obama is going to get four more years.

I was thinking more like 25 to life?

 

[J_Wales]

I was thinking more like 25 to life?

Now there is a change I can believe in!

 

[Fletch]

I don't believe in supporting socialism. That's why I generally can't vote for Republicans.

 

[.45 Dave]

Now I am pretty sure you are a Romney staffer trolling. I tease. I tease.

I hope so!! I hate Romney!!

Seriously though, I think I'm finally starting to see your line of thinking. Moderate Romney can lose to Obama just like Moderate McCain did. What's it hurt, they are the same. Obama will continue pushing forward with the Bush administration's agenda (plus a little extra nonsense of his own). The rank and file toe the party line republicans will finally lose all of the local and state elections. Then maybe enough of everyone else will stop voting republican and start voting a third party. Once that third party gets popular, you will then be able to view them as an option. I think it might work!

I'd be happy if everyone would suddenly get an epiphany and no one would vote Democrat OR Republican. But it isn't going to happen. It took decades to get us where we are, little by little, lost freedom by lost freedom, and changing it is not going to happen over night. All I'm saying is that is going to take time to turn the ship the other way.
Our country is more like a tanker than a sailboat. It turns slowly. The only reason Obama has gotten any real notice or caused concern is that he has tried to turn us faster than we're use to.
The only other choice we have to set things right is start from scratch. I refer you to the Declaration of Independence for that blueprint, especially the second paragraph.

And, of course, all my reasoning is based on whether the economy can survive what BOTH the Republicans and Democrats have done to it. But that's a discussion for a different thread.

 

[Stschil]

A vote For a R or Against a D is but a bandaid.

Sure we could "cut out the cancer" but the if the patient doesn't change his lifestyle, he wont be around long enough for the heart transplant.

So, assuming Romnebamma is installed, he will mix up a new "medication" to keep our patient fat, dumb, and oblivious. Our "heart" will continue to fail and no transplant is forthcoming. None is EVER forthcoming from this medical staff.

Better to fire the [STRIKE]doctors[/STRIKE] Quacks now.

The only thing that is going to wake this patient up from the coma is to pull the plug

 

[churchmouse]

A vote For a R or Against a D is but a bandaid.

Sure we could "cut out the cancer" but the if the patient doesn't change his lifestyle, he wont be around long enough for the heart transplant.

So, assuming Romnebamma is installed, he will mix up a new "medication" to keep our patient fat, dumb, and oblivious. Our "heart" will continue to fail and no transplant is forthcoming. None is EVER forthcoming from this medical staff.

Better to fire the [STRIKE]doctors[/STRIKE] Quacks now.

The only thing that is going to wake this patient up from the coma is to pull the plug

Sad but oh so true. If you put every one of them in a sack and shook it, laid it on the ground none would come out with out poll numbers, a few Caucasus and a media source present for the occasion.

 

[hornadylnl]

The only thing better than gridlock is repeal. What is Romney proposing to repeal?