Why I would never CC

[CPT Nervous]

This thread is not an attack on CCers.

We don't attack CCers here on INGO. CCers get attacked in the real world.

This thread is intended to discuss various reasons of why CC is not for us.

If you are a CCer reading this, you may want to avert your eyes, lest this turn into a shouting match. We've already won that argument.


Here goes.

1. OC is so much more comfortable.

2. OC works a a crime deterrent.

3. I am not an undercover cop trying to trick you into attacking me so I can yell "Surprise!" and shoot you.

4. OC gives people an opportunity to ask questions and learn about gun laws.

5. OC desensitizes the sheeple, and they learn that guns aren't evil, oppressive tyrannical totalitarian socialist governments are.

6. OC gives me an opportunity to meet friends who would have otherwise not known that I carry.

7. It make me look bada**.

8. I'm an attention whore.

 

[netsecurity]

There are plenty of times when CC is more appropriate--such as in places like the mall that don't allow guns.

:-D

 

[CPT Nervous]

There are plenty of times when CC is more appropriate--such as in places like the mall that don't allow guns.

:-D

Sorry.

9. It allows me to find out which places aren't gun friendly, and take my money elsewhere.


Any more?

 

[LPMan59]

2. OC works as a crime deterrent.

I see this cited a lot. Are there any reputable statistical analyses that actually show this? I'm not attacking OC: i actually like it. Just because something might have a logical implication doesn't make it true (ie the death penalty is a deterrent).

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Sorry.

9. It allows me to find out which places aren't gun friendly, and take my money elsewhere.


Any more?

That is an interesting one right there and a difficult thought to convey to people who do not OC.

My mother-in-law AND my mother constantly want me to go to the mall here in Evansville that is NOT carry friendly. They just say "why don't you cover it up, it isn't illegal is it?" I always respond with "That's not the point."

 

[Titanium_Frost]

2. OC works as a crime deterrent.

I see this cited a lot. Are there any reputable statistical analyses that actually show this? I'm not attacking OC: i actually like it. Just because something might have a logical implication doesn't make it true (ie the death penalty is a deterrent).

There are a few stories posted here and there about rough looking guys walking away from a store when they see your gun etc. It has happend to me a few times.

Did it prevent a crime? Kinda hard to prove IMO.

 

[indyjoe]

I could OC to work. I would have a job for about 5 minutes. I would not state on the internet that I CC to work. After all, it is against policy.

I try not to use the word NEVER. Because absolutes rarely are.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I could OC to work. I would have a job for about 5 minutes. I would not state on the internet that I CC to work. After all, it is against policy.

Very good point. I CC at work, everyone here knows it too.

 

[LPMan59]

There are a few stories posted here and there about rough looking guys walking away from a store when they see your gun etc. It has happend to me a few times.

Did it prevent a crime? Kinda hard to prove IMO.

i agree, which is why anecdotal evidence doesn't really count. I can post a story about an OCer being killed with his own gun but what does that really mean in terms of OCing being dangerous?

My point is that one shouldn't make claims based solely on logic or implication because it isn't always true. He who asserts must prove.

 

[CPT Nervous]

That is an interesting one right there and a difficult thought to convey to people who do not OC.

My mother-in-law AND my mother constantly want me to go to the mall here in Evansville that is NOT carry friendly. They just say "why don't you cover it up, it isn't illegal is it?" I always respond with "That's not the point."

Mall in Mishawaka is the same. NO OC. But, as you mentioned, that isn't the point. If I get asked to leave, I don't want to be there. Haven't been to a movie in quite some time...

No gun, no $. < That's a period. That means that's over. No guns, no $. End of discussion.

 

[bobzilla]

Good for you. I disagree, and feel comfortable doing something else. The difference is I don't feel the need to force my opinion onto someone else or make a list to show people how stupid they are for disagreeing with you.

 

[pack-indy]

This should be interesting

 

[Bigshep]

Hold on just a minute..... Ok, ready for the show.

 

[henktermaat]

I could OC to work. I would have a job for about 5 minutes. I would not state on the internet that I CC to work. After all, it is against policy.

I try not to use the word NEVER. Because absolutes rarely are.

Good thing you don't do it then

 

[CPT Nervous]

i agree, which is why anecdotal evidence doesn't really count. I can post a story about an OCer being killed with his own gun but what does that really mean in terms of OCing being dangerous?

My point is that one shouldn't make claims based solely on logic or implication because it isn't always true. He who asserts must prove.

Okay. I will prove it. Based upon the simple fact that criminals usually don't want to have to fight, let alone die. Generally, they want a quick buck. If you have to face a pissed off man with a G19 and 46 rds. of 9mm +P+ JHPs to find out what I have in my wallet, chances are, you move on.

I don't feel like looking this up, but I posed this question earlier on another thread.

How many people are attacked who CC? How many who OC?

In my studies, I have learned that CCers are more likely to be attacked. They look unarmed. I do not appear to be unarmed, nor unaware. That pushes me down on the list of potential targets.

Oh, and I guess I kinda lied. I do CC at the moment at work, until I find a job where I can OC.

It's about principles. They found out I have been carrying at work. Said I had to stop. So, now instead of a PF9, I carry a Ravens .25 in the back pocket. Better than nothing, but I'd rather have the 9.

 

[Classic Liberal]

I only CC where OC is restricted.

 

[Bunnykid68]

2. OC works as a crime deterrent.

I see this cited a lot. Are there any reputable statistical analyses that actually show this? I'm not attacking OC: i actually like it. Just because something might have a logical implication doesn't make it true (ie the death penalty is a deterrent).

This was just posted up yesterday

Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw - Atlanta gun rights | Examiner.com

 

[CPT Nervous]

Good for you. I disagree, and feel comfortable doing something else. The difference is I don't feel the need to force my opinion onto someone else or make a list to show people how stupid they are for disagreeing with you.

Okay first of all, see what you just said? Yeah, you said it, not me.

Second, this is semi in retaliation to the onslaught on CCers who force their views down our throats on a daily basis. I wanted a thread where I can express my reasons not to CC. Not telling anyone else what to do, not pointing fingers, not calling names.

Feel free to disagree. Feel free to CC. No judgements here. I'm just tired of the CC only crowd who pushes their agenda on us.

Reasons why I would CC:

1. I'm at work and by boss is a dickhead.

 

[LPMan59]

Okay. I will prove it. Based upon the simple fact that criminals usually don't want to have to fight, let alone die. Generally, they want a quick buck. If you have to face a pissed off man with a G19 and 46 rds. of 9mm +P+ JHPs to find out what I have in my wallet, chances are, you move on.

I don't feel like looking this up, but I posed this question earlier on another thread.

How many people are attacked who CC? How many who OC?

In my studies, I have learned that CCers are more likely to be attacked. They look unarmed. I do not appear to be unarmed, nor unaware. That pushes me down on the list of potential targets.

Oh, and I guess I kinda lied. I do CC at the moment at work, until I find a job where I can OC.

It's about principles. They found out I have been carrying at work. Said I had to stop. So, now instead of a PF9, I carry a Ravens .25 in the back pocket. Better than nothing, but I'd rather have the 9.

nothing you said in any way, shape or form proves anything. What are your studies? How were they designed? How large was the sample size? Was this a retrospective analysis? What analyses did you use? Where was this published? Who funded it? Was it peer reviewed? By what peers?

These are questions that need to be satisfied, otherwise you're talking out of your ass. Statements like "Criminals generally...." hold absolutely zero water without hard evidence to back them up.

Criminals don't want the death penalty, so they are less likely to commit violent crimes. Seems like a logical and reasonable statement, doesn't it? But it isn't true.

Like I said, I like OC. But making anecdotal evidence into statistically significant events is folly. And any anti-OCer is likely to call you on it. And from there, many people will not sever one minor detail from the whole argument. Instead, they'll ditch the whole thing. (ie If you were wrong about this little thing, then maybe you're wrong about everything else...)

 

[CPT Nervous]

nothing you said in any way, shape or form proves anything. What are your studies? How were they designed? How large was the sample size? Was this a retrospective analysis? What analyses did you use? Where was this published? Who funded it? Was it peer reviewed? By what peers?

These are questions that need to be satisfied, otherwise you're talking out of your ass. Statements like "Criminals generally...." hold absolutely zero water without hard evidence to back them up.

Criminals don't want the death penalty, so they are less likely to commit violent crimes. Seems like a logical and reasonable statement, doesn't it? But it isn't true.

Like I said, I like OC. But making anecdotal evidence into statistically significant events is folly. And any anti-OCer is likely to call you on it. And from there, many people will not sever one minor detail from the whole argument. Instead, they'll ditch the whole thing. (ie If you were wrong about this little thing, then maybe you're wrong about everything else...)

Fine. From real life experience.

Do I need all this statistic mumbo jumbo?

Is it actually plausible to find out how many crimes were stopped because of OC? No. That's nearly impossible.

Does it happen? Sure, but we cannot compute an accurate statistic based on that.

Here's this:

The most profound and undisputed survey I reviewed was asked of convicted burglars by an FBI behaviorist:
1. Would you B&E (break and enter) a home if you thought it occupied?
A. No — 88 percent (the other 12 percent are hard-core burglars).
2. Would you B&E a home if you knew the owner was home and maybe had a gun?
A. No — 95 percent (the other 5 percent are called cat burglars)
3. Would you B&E a home if you knew the owner was home and did, in fact, have a gun?
A. No — 100 percent (I told you they fear the homeowner).
So, criminals fear guns. I proved that. Would that same idea not apply to a person who open carries? I think so. Criminals do not like armed victims. They can see that I am armed, so I just deterred roughly 60% of potential attacks.

And, it's a little dated, but relevant:

In 1985, the National Institute for Justice reported that:

• 60% of felons polled agreed that "a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun."
• 57% of felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."
• 74% of felons polled agreed that "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."
• Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one weapon in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89% in Kennesaw, compared to the modest 10.4% drop in Georgia as a whole.
• Ten years later (1991), the residential burglary rate in Kennesaw was still 72% lower than it had been in 1981, before the law was passed.
• Orlando, FL. In 1966-67, the media highly publicized a safety course which taught Orlando women how to use guns. The result: Orlando's rape rate dropped 88% in 1967, whereas the rape rate remained constant in the rest of Florida and the nation.

So, criminals fear guns. I proved that. Would that same idea not apply to a person who open carries? I think so. Criminals do not like armed victims. They can see that I am armed, so I just deterred roughly 60% of potential attacks.

Is that better?