Wayne LaPierre Resigns

[Ingomike]

You just said we were starving it, then said we were doing nothing. You probably should pick one narrative or the other, it will cut down on the amount of smoke being blown

Wow, when you get stuck, you are stuck. Starving is doing nothing to support the organization.

It is easier to do nothing to just starve the organization than to do the heavy lifting required to take control…

 

[Ingomike]

So it's fine for you to decide that you won't support an organization the character and nature of which you don't approve of, but anyone else isn't allowed that same consideration?

I am against your suggestion to change the organization back to the 1965 4H. I want a strong lobbying organization, that is why I ponied up lifetime membership. If you were a member then I presume you supported the efforts to lobby. Do you no longer support that mission?

 

[Ingomike]

16 years of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama grew NRA membership levels. I don't know a single person who joined NRA because of Wayne LaPierre's magnetic personality or managerial prowess. They joined because Barack Obama and Bill Clinton were "Gun Salesmen of the Century."

Giving WLP credit for membership growth of NRA is like blaming Humans for Global Warming. His timing may have been impeccable, but that sh.t was happening anyway.

Said like everyone that has no understanding of what sales does, and a big part of what the NRA CEO does looks to me like it is sales. NOTHING sells itself.

Selling gun owners to join. Selling members to donate. Selling members to vote. Selling politicians to pass laws like constitutional carry. Selling not passing gun control.

 

[Twangbanger]

Said like everyone that has no understanding of what sales does, and a big part of what the NRA CEO does looks to me like it is sales. NOTHING sells itself.

Selling gun owners to join. Selling members to donate. Selling members to vote. Selling politicians to pass laws like constitutional carry. Selling not passing gun control.

None of my business, but are you commissioned sales?

 

[Ingomike]

None of my business, but are you commissioned sales?

Would that change the point made?

 

[Twangbanger]

Would that change the point made?

So let's go back to the point made: that WLP "grew NRA membership." We know there was undeniable evidence of a substantial, secular growth trend in everything having to do with firearms during this period. It wasn't just NRA. Gun sales were up, people joining clubs was up, people showing up at USPSA matches was up, you name it, there was growth pretty much everywhere (especially when Obama started threatening to reinstate the AW ban).

Are you saying WLP was responsible for increased gun sales? (Probably not)

Are you saying WLP was responsible for increased ammo sales? (Probably not)

Unlike buying a car, NRA members don't make personal contact with WLP when joining, or fill out a "contact card" saying he assisted them in their decision.

So then, what _evidence_ do you have that Wayne is primarily responsible for the uptick in NRA membership, and he wasn't just the beneficiary of a wider public zeitgeist of greater interest in guns at the time? I've pointed up my evidence, but after all, you're the one making the assertion here.

It sounds to me like it's the mere associative fact of his having been employed by NRA at the time. We're both dealing somewhat in "correlation not causation" here. But the existence of a secular increase trend in the background, independent of a prime actor, has to generate some healthy skepticism.

 

[Ingomike]

Ok, I'll take that as a yes (?).

So let's go back to the point made, that WLP "grew NRA membership." We know there was undeniable evidence of a substantial, secular growth trend in everything having to do with firearms during this period. It wasn't just NRA. Gun sales were up, people joining clubs was up, people showing up at USPSA matches was up, you name it, there was growth pretty much everywhere (especially when Obama started threatening to reinstate the AW ban).

Are you saying WLP was responsible for increased gun sales? (Probably not)

Are you saying WLP was responsible for increased ammo sales? (Probably not)

So what _evidence_ do you have that Wayne is primarily responsible for the uptick in NRA membership?

It sounds to me like it's the mere associative fact of his having been employed there at the time.

Funny you are the one expressing correlation equals causation. So you believe NRA growth just magically came about because people bought guns; but it is implausible the leadership had anything to do with it.

“We know there was undeniable evidence of a substantial, secular growth trend in everything having to do with firearms during this period. It wasn't just NRA. Gun sales were up, people joining clubs was up, people showing up at USPSA matches was up.” all that is a tangible in exchange for the cash, the “free” gifts from NRA notwithstanding, the NRA is not an easy sell as support is somewhat abstract to most people.

It takes leadership to grow even a nonprofit…

 

[WebSnyper]

the NRA is not an easy sell as support is somewhat abstract to most people.

Until you have an AWB in your face that limits the round count of mags that new gun owner can get for that newly purchased Glock because Clinton is after your gun. It wasn't abstract then at all to many.

There were a lot of factors driving folks to NRA membership.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Funny you are the one expressing correlation equals causation. So you believe NRA growth just magically came about because people bought guns; but it is implausible the leadership had anything to do with it.

“We know there was undeniable evidence of a substantial, secular growth trend in everything having to do with firearms during this period. It wasn't just NRA. Gun sales were up, people joining clubs was up, people showing up at USPSA matches was up.” all that is a tangible in exchange for the cash, the “free” gifts from NRA notwithstanding, the NRA is not an easy sell as support is somewhat abstract to most people.

It takes leadership to grow even a nonprofit…

I'd argue the Dems and their antics have FAR more to do with the growth of the NRA than leadership itself. Hell, Spokesmen like Heston had more to do with it than Suity McSuitface.

Likely: "If I dont Join the NRA, Clinton/Obama/Pelosi/Feinstein/Biden, etc will take away my guns! I need to join the biggest org out there that spends the most on advertising to help fight to keep my rights!"

Unlikely "I need to join the NRA because WLP is running a great organization. MAN! Those are some sharp lookin suits!"

Also unlikely "Man thats a snazzy knife and duffle bag. I really need one of those. That's it, I'm joining the NRA for that cool swag!"

 

[Ingomike]

Until you have an AWB in your face that limits the round count of mags that new gun owner can get for that newly purchased Glock because Clinton is after your gun. It wasn't abstract then at all to many.

There were a lot of factors driving folks to NRA membership.

All true, but the leadership of an organization must position themselves as THE go to place to capture the interest created by events, they did and deserve credit for it…

 

[WebSnyper]

All true, but the leadership of an organization must position themselves as THE go to place to capture the interest created by events, they did and deserve credit for it…

There were also contributors to that as well, including the media.

And all is good, until he started fleecing that same organization and others did so under his watch. He's accountable for the good, the bad and damn sure for everything he did.

 

[Ingomike]

Likely: "If I dont Join the NRA, Clinton/Obama/Pelosi/Feinstein/Biden, etc will take away my guns! I need to join the biggest org out there that spends the most on advertising to help fight to keep my rights!"

Yep, and just who was the catalyst to position the NRA as “the biggest org out there that spends the most on advertising to help fight to keep my rights!"?

This line of thinking ignores that the growth was not just one period of time it was over many years. It is actually comical that so many cannot give any credit to WLP for growing the organization that has been the biggest defender of gun rights for at least 30 years…

 

[Ingomike]

There were also contributors to that as well, including the media.

And all is good, until he started fleecing that same organization and others did so under his watch. He's accountable for the good, the bad and damn sure for everything he did.

That he is, for sure. Do all you guys think if this happened at the Trace or mommies needing action the left would kill their organization! I do not…

 

[WebSnyper]

That he is, for sure. Do all you guys think if this happened at the Trace or mommies needing action the left would kill their organization! I do not…

Not trying to kill it. Reform what allowed it to get to this state... Definitely.

Fool me once... No sense in allowing history repeat itself. The org should police itself otherwise the enemies will do it for them as the NRA is governed by the rules and laws around non profits.

 

[rbhargan]

I think people are not giving enough credit to the Soros Prosecutors. When crime is not punished and increases dramatically, when Prosecutors do not prosecute, but release criminals, when the police only seem to be there to file the paperwork - people start to realize that they are responsible for their own safety. Even some Democrats seem to be figuring that out.

Give credit where credit is due - to Soros. And he works for free.

 

[Creedmoor]

Funny you are the one expressing correlation equals causation. So you believe NRA growth just magically came about because people bought guns; but it is implausible the leadership had anything to do with it.

“We know there was undeniable evidence of a substantial, secular growth trend in everything having to do with firearms during this period. It wasn't just NRA. Gun sales were up, people joining clubs was up, people showing up at USPSA matches was up.” all that is a tangible in exchange for the cash, the “free” gifts from NRA notwithstanding, the NRA is not an easy sell as support is somewhat abstract to most people.

It takes leadership to grow even a nonprofit…

You are so humorous.
Like I posted earlier, My dads house is like 22 miles to NRA's Headquarters. Not once since I was in my early 20's did I ever see Wayne at any functions like Registered Matches, NRA dinners, local to Headquarters gun shows and other venues in and around the DC area.
If someone signed up and earned a Chinese hat or a $1.29 string backpack I would bet they didn't renew for more than 2 years.
Hell, Eddie Eagle has educated about 30+ million so far, one would think with the excellent management were have had since its inception. With all that positive with the last 30+ years of education we would now have more than 4 million members.

 

[Ingomike]

You are so humorous.
Like I posted earlier, My dads house is like 22 miles to NRA's Headquarters. Not once since I was in my early 20's did I ever see Wayne at any functions like Registered Matches, NRA dinners, local to Headquarters gun shows and other venues in and around the DC area.
If someone signed up and earned a Chinese hat or a $1.29 string backpack I would bet they didn't renew for more than 2 years.
Hell, Eddie Eagle has educated about 30+ million so far, one would think with the excellent management were have had since its inception. With all that positive with the last 30+ years of education we would now have more than 4 million members.

Tired and done on this topic so this is it tonight.

2.5 million members in 1991.

4 million is greater than that and the over 5 million before the power struggle is even greater…

 

[Creedmoor]

Tired and done on this topic so this is it tonight.

2.5 million members in 1991.

4 million is greater than that and the over 5 million before the power struggle is even greater…

My response is, out of the last 17 posts. Nine of those posts, are yours my friend.

 

[BugI02]

None of my business, but are you commissioned sales?

I think he's a realtor, hence the love affair with HOAs

 

[BugI02]

Funny you are the one expressing correlation equals causation. So you believe NRA growth just magically came about because people bought guns; but it is implausible the leadership had anything to do with it.

“We know there was undeniable evidence of a substantial, secular growth trend in everything having to do with firearms during this period. It wasn't just NRA. Gun sales were up, people joining clubs was up, people showing up at USPSA matches was up.” all that is a tangible in exchange for the cash, the “free” gifts from NRA notwithstanding, the NRA is not an easy sell as support is somewhat abstract to most people.

It takes leadership to grow even a nonprofit…

Double-edged sword. If WLP's 'leadership' gets the credit for a growing membership, then his 'leadership' also gets the blame for the drop in NRA membership to its current 10 year low, and arguably he has taken a more high visibility, directly responsible role in the organizations decline than he ever did in its good years