Vaccine coercion/bribery

[jsharmon7]

View attachment 162083
“Healthy”

I feel bad for that kid. Her parents let her down many years ago. Even without Covid, she is heading toward a lifetime of health problems.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I feel bad for that kid. Her parents let her down many years ago. Even without Covid, she is heading toward a lifetime of health problems.

It’s sad. I hate using her as a political statement in a debate, and I really hope she sees why she is being used and doesn’t take it as people are insulting her, because I’m not, but to depict her as healthy isn’t helpful to society or her. She needs to understand that she isn’t healthy, and society needs to understand that anybody obese is going to have a harder time fighting ANY virus or disease.

Staying healthy isn’t difficult. Be sure to get a little activity in and don’t eat like a moron. Some people have issues that prevent physical activity from being a daily routine, so it’s important they eat healthy to compensate. But telling someone who is clearly very obese that they are healthy and it’s the viruses fault is an insult and dangerous game to play with lives for political gain. It’s pure propaganda, and it’s wrong no matter what letter you identity as.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Kirk:

The issue is mandated vaccination. Some of us have been vaccinated. Some not.

What most of us agree on is that the government should have no right to mandate vaccination in this specific situation. The data does not support it.

In my instance, I've had the full regimen and I support the position against mandatory vaccination.

State government certainly has the power to mandate vaccines under the Constitution.

(Federal, meh, more limited, service, maybe BoP)

Again, mandates hurt the interest of the state governments. Education and incentives should be used over command.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Confusion caused by a misreported Media story. The drug's use, not the drug, received the Nobel Prize in 2015.

The horse dewormer has been around a long time. Great stuff, for parasites. Covid-19 is a virus though.

Fact Check-2015 Nobel Prize for ivermectin intended for treatment of parasitic infections doesn’t prove its efficacy on COVID-19

Correction Sep. 23, 2021: paragraph one has been corrected to clarify that the drug Ivermectin was not awarded the Nobel Prize. Rather, the prize was awarded to two scientists for their discoveries involving the drug.

www.reuters.com

So in other words “I reject your sources and you must accept mine”. About what I figured.



So, are you telling me that medication has never been used to treat anything other than it’s intended purpose?

 

[wtburnette]

Again, mandates hurt the interest of the state governments. Education and incentives should be used over command.

I agree with this and that has me really confused due to the source...

 

[ditcherman]

The horse dewormer did not "win a Nobel Prize". Let's knock that rubbish off right now.

Omura and Campbell won Nobel Prizes for their use of horse dewormer, on parasites, roundworm, not viruses.

Horse dewormer is not used on viruses, it is for parasites.

You and your side are the ones calling ivermectin horse dewormer. It’s ivermectin. It’s world renowned.

I’ve read that from indiatoday. Take it just like I take the advice from our own fauci. Just like I take most of what comes from you.

 

[ditcherman]

This is completely insane. INGO has come out against vaccines, but in favor of horse dewormer for a virus.

The kids that slept through 8th grade science are speaking out.

Who even told you it was horse dewormer?
Who told you it was only horse dewormer?
Why do you believe them?
I don’t need an answer, just something I think you should think about.

 

[buckwacker]

So in other words “I reject your sources and you must accept mine”. About what I figured.



So, are you telling me that medication has never been used to treat anything other than it’s intended purpose?

You just don't understand lawyers, at least this one. Facts, logic, reason are not important; the seminal objective is to twist words to manipulate a sufficient number of people, say on a jury, to believe the BS they are spittin.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I agree with this and that has me really confused due to the source...

We all agree with that statement, but I believe he supports mandates and is just saying who should have the power to mandate and why they wouldn’t do it.

The problem also is he believes the state education and state provided incentives, we believe this leads to the state advancing their own interests at the expense of our freedoms, which ends in tyranny.

I also find it ironic for someone who continually disregards any statistics or sources that disagree with his beliefs to speak on how educated they are. “Educated” individuals know and understand that to be educated you need to seek out different views and compare the data to your own from research, and without bias determine which is correct. As you can see from the last 2 pages, he has rejected every source that’s been provided disproving any of his own. From masks effectiveness, to vaccines, and now on to ivermectin. It’s beyond ego at this point, and possibly narcissism. I don’t mean that as an insult, I generally like Kirk other than the last 6 months with this Covid ****. He’s always had a high opinion of himself and thought he was never wrong, but I figure that’s just a by product of his profession. And really, what is educated? Someone with a degree? Someone who’s successful? Someone with common sense? Educated means different things to different people, so I hate when people use “educated” in their argument. They’re trying to argue from authority, not on facts.

The problem recently is his refusal to accept any views outside of his own, and believe there’s only one way to skin a cat and that’s his way. Ok, fine, believe that, but don’t tell me anyone with different beliefs didn’t get past 8th grade science.

 

[foszoe]

Ivermectin: a multifaceted drug of Nobel prize-honoured distinction with indicated efficacy against a new global scourge, COVID-19 - PubMed

In 2015, the Nobel Committee for Physiology or Medicine, in its only award for treatments of infectious diseases since six decades prior, honoured the discovery of ivermectin (IVM), a multifaceted drug deployed against some of the world's most devastating tropical diseases. Since March 2020...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015 was divided, one half jointly to William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura "for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites" and the other half to Tu Youyou "for her discoveries concerning a novel...

www.nobelprize.org

Why not just use a primary source? On that web page it tells you there were two people who won Nobel Prize in medicine + 1/3 for malaria type drugs. The two in particular were awarded the prize for treating roundworms and parasites says so right on the Nobel Prize website so as abrasive as Kirk maybe or as people may take me to be the facts are it was awarded the two people for novel uses and treatment of parasites nothing to do with viruses

 

[ditcherman]

Maybe you could address the argument instead?

Said the little boy throwing a tantrum jumping up and down posting “horse dewormer grifter” 4 posts in a row.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015 was divided, one half jointly to William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura "for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites" and the other half to Tu Youyou "for her discoveries concerning a novel...

www.nobelprize.org

Why not just use a primary source? On that web page it tells you there were two people who won Nobel Prize in medicine + 1/3 for malaria type drugs. The two in particular were awarded the prize for treating roundworms and parasites says so right on the Nobel Prize website so as abrasive as Kirk maybe or as people may take me to be the facts are it was awarded the two people for novel uses and treatment of parasites nothing to do with viruses

Nobody is saying it won a prize for treating viruses tho? The whole point is it isn’t just used on horses, and isn’t just a horse dewormer. Many Medications are able to treat more than a single thing, in more than a single species. Its ok to accept that.

 

[jsharmon7]

It’s sad. I hate using her as a political statement in a debate, and I really hope she sees why she is being used and doesn’t take it as people are insulting her, because I’m not, but to depict her as healthy isn’t helpful to society or her. She needs to understand that she isn’t healthy, and society needs to understand that anybody obese is going to have a harder time fighting ANY virus or disease.

Staying healthy isn’t difficult. Be sure to get a little activity in and don’t eat like a moron. Some people have issues that prevent physical activity from being a daily routine, so it’s important they eat healthy to compensate. But telling someone who is clearly very obese that they are healthy and it’s the viruses fault is an insult and dangerous game to play with lives for political gain. It’s pure propaganda, and it’s wrong no matter what letter you identity as.

I didn’t take it as you picking on her. It just made me shake my head that a 16 year old could already be that big. Kids aren’t always nice either, so I’m sure she’s had it rough anyway.

 

[foszoe]

Nobody is saying it won a prize for treating viruses tho? The whole point is it isn’t just used on horses, and isn’t just a horse dewormer. Many Medications are able to treat more than a single thing, in more than a single species. Its ok to accept that.

My point is Hayden, that some people certainly seem to be saying the drug won a prize the drug didn't win a prize I don't care if it was for viruses or parasites or whatever Ivermectin did not win a Nobel Prize that's a fact

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Kirk:

The issue is mandated vaccination. Some of us have been vaccinated. Some not.

What most of us agree on is that the government should have no right to mandate vaccination in this specific situation. The data does not support it.

In my instance, I've had the full regimen and I support the position against mandatory vaccination.

I’ve never liked you more than this moment.



This is what I think some misunderstand about our positions on this. I’m fine with the vaccine. I have nothing against vaccines, they’re a great thing that have saved millions of lives throughout history. I’m against government mandating people take vaccines, especially a new vaccine. I will not take it, as we’ve discussed, because I’m young and don’t want to take the chance of living the next 40 years with a horrible side effect that could have been avoided if I waited a few years to get it. My parents have the vaccine. Dad asked my opinion and I told him I probably would at his age. I’m not anti vax, but I do support people who are. Who am I to force someone to put something in their body they don’t want? If that’s the case I want a salad mandate. I think that would do more good for everyone’s health than eating a Big Mac and large fries every day.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I didn’t take it as you picking on her. It just made me shake my head that a 16 year old could already be that big. Kids aren’t always nice either, so I’m sure she’s had it rough anyway.

I hate it for her. When I first saw it, my first thought was exactly what you said, except now she’s being broadcasted to the entire world while her loudmouth mom tells people to wear a mask because her healthy child isn’t doing well... so now she’s going to have to deal with millions of not so nice internet people pointing out she is far from healthy, while still being bullied at school. I hope she’s mentally strong and her dad can explain things to her, because she looks like a sweetheart with her stuffed animal and doesn’t deserve to be used as a pawn, or lied to.

 

[Leadeye]

I don't deny that it's used as horse wormer, I've used it for that purpose myself when I was farming. It's also used to control ticks on deer by having the same affect on them that it has on intestinal parasites. I don't know about it's anti-viral properties, because until the recent shooting war over it in the media I had never heard of it's use in that area.

I have to admit I can't dismiss it's possibilities, particularly from info provided by people who, like our President, seem caught up in this quasi religious vaccine crusade. Quinine, other than making an excellent mix in cocktails, has been used for a long time with success as an anti viral. Back in history before we understood it was simply called bark.

The reflexive denunciation of this product, perhaps because of TDS, has lowered the credibility of those arguments in my opinion. I don't discount them completly, but when you have a President behaving like Jim Jones on national television, it's getting harder to believe anything.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

My point is Hayden, that some people certainly seem to be saying the drug won a prize the drug didn't win a prize I don't care if it was for viruses or parasites or whatever Ivermectin did not win a Nobel Prize that's a fact

Ok, this is technically “true”, but a bit ridiculous and you know that. The “drug” didn’t win a Nobel prize, the “drugs use” won the Nobel prize.


Come on fos, you’re a smart guy, you know why that’s ridiculous. This shouldn’t be a book smart, technicality, definition by the book debate, this shouldn’t need anything more than common sense to see the mental gymnastics there, and I know you’re a pretty intelligent feller, a jerk , but intelligent.

 

[foszoe]

Ok, this is technically “true”, but a bit ridiculous and you know that. The “drug” didn’t win a Nobel prize, the “drugs use” won the Nobel prize.


Come on fos, you’re a smart guy, you know why that’s ridiculous. This shouldn’t be a book smart, technicality, definition by the book debate, this shouldn’t need anything more than common sense to see the mental gymnastics there, and I know you’re a pretty intelligent feller, a jerk , but intelligent.

Well I was just trying maybe help someone who didn't understand where Kirk coming from see what his point is even if it's so fine you can't see it

 

[phylodog]

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015 was divided, one half jointly to William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura "for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites" and the other half to Tu Youyou "for her discoveries concerning a novel...

www.nobelprize.org

Why not just use a primary source? On that web page it tells you there were two people who won Nobel Prize in medicine + 1/3 for malaria type drugs. The two in particular were awarded the prize for treating roundworms and parasites says so right on the Nobel Prize website so as abrasive as Kirk maybe or as people may take me to be the facts are it was awarded the two people for novel uses and treatment of parasites nothing to do with viruses

Here, let me quote the part from the link I shared where they talk about Covid and Ivermectin. The lies being repeated are that Ivermectin is useless against Covid.

"Since March 2020, when IVM was first used against a new global scourge, COVID-19, more than 20 randomized clinical trials (RCTs) have tracked such inpatient and outpatient treatments. Six of seven meta-analyses of IVM treatment RCTs reporting in 2021 found notable reductions in COVID-19 fatalities, with a mean 31% relative risk of mortality vs. controls. During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive treatments. Reductions in deaths correlated with the extent of IVM distributions in all 25 states with p < 0.002. Sharp reductions in morbidity using IVM were also observed in two animal models, of SARS-CoV-2 and a related betacoronavirus. The indicated biological mechanism of IVM, competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, is likely non-epitope specific, possibly yielding full efficacy against emerging viral mutant strains."