Uvalde Texas Killing

[jamil]

It's still good to have a place to pool information. You can't just accept what a single news source says and take it at face value. These things need hashed out, and we're lucky enough to live in an age where do don't have to do so behind closed doors. It's a nasty subject, and it's going to be uncomfortable no matter how or where it's discussed.

It’s also good for the sake of history. After more is known we can look back on this thread and see how the story evolved.

 

[bwframe]

In truth nothing that we say or think about this is going to have a positive tone.
You have to admit that the boots on the ground 1st on scene totally ****ed up. Totally.
The entire string of events leading up to the tragedy was one failure after another.

So, when I closed the 1st one due to LEO/God bashing and opened this one I have to say there are several LE agencies that deserve a solid bashing here. But for the most part considering the emotions involved it has been pretty smooth......well sorta.

Yep.

It'd be great if our members who have a reputation of cop bashing didn't seem to relish in and thrive on the LEO failures though.


.

 

[woodsie57]

OK peoples let's start over.
Keep it civil. I am not even close to kidding here.
There is so much to be discussed.

As long as LEOs continuo to be taught that "Officer Safety" is job #1, the slogan " Protect and Serve" will continue to be a falsehood.

 

[churchmouse]

Yep.

It'd be great if our members who have a reputation of cop bashing didn't seem to relish in and thrive on the LEO failures though.


.

In light of what we have been told/shared/research it’s hard for me not to be seriously upset with that group. Bashing will not change any of the things that happened. Like the sherif in Florida that fought tooth and toenails to maintain his innocence and still does.
But this all started long before the tragic end.

 

[Tombs]

View attachment 202684

And they'd probably call you a larper for owning a gun and body armor, lol.

In reality I don't have a problem with police being too scared to do anything in the situation. Some people can't handle the burden of that situation.

What makes me angry is that they'd stop people who aren't too scared to do something. That's when it crosses the line from just being scared and into contributing to the death toll.

 

[freekforge]

Im glad my department had us trained by the FD on making entry on a bunch of types of doors and then gave us the tools to do it. I've never responded to a real active shooter so I wont say much but I have responded to a horrible prank where students called in one and I watched a reserve 2 weeks out of prebasic sprint into the school. I dont know what the training is down there but ours find them and shoot them. My chief said something that stuck with me when another officer asked about calling a swat team, he said "**** that you are swat". Its terrible all around. Im glad there were heroes there willing to put the shooter down.

 

[thompal]

I'm curious about protocol when multiple agencies respond to an event; who's in charge? I suppose there is is basic protocol but in the first few moments who decides enter/don't enter if various departments, with various SOP's, arrive at same time?

My understanding is that, in at least the last 20 years or so, basic training doctrine say that as soon as any LEO arrives, they are to enter and engage with no delay, and no "staging."

 

[thompal]

The grandmother he shot in the face worked there until 2020.

In most schools, ALL DOORS except the main entrance are supposed to be locked at all times. If it was common knowledge that this particular door was always left unlocked, then that is a major failure of the school system.

Apparently, there was also supposed to be a school resource officer present at all times, but he wasn't at the school, so there's another total breakdown.

Combined with the total failure of all of the law enforcement agencies involved, the stacked coincidences of failures are infuriating.

 

[churchmouse]

In most schools, ALL DOORS except the main entrance are supposed to be locked at all times. If it was common knowledge that this particular door was always left unlocked, then that is a major failure of the school system.

Apparently, there was also supposed to be a school resource officer present at all times, but he wasn't at the school, so there's another total breakdown.

Combined with the total failure of all of the law enforcement agencies involved, the stacked coincidences of failures are infuriating.

It is apparent we are surrounded by inept agency’s with no real guidance.
I don’t have the answers.

 

[thompal]

In reality I don't have a problem with police being too scared to do anything in the situation. Some people can't handle the burden of that situation.

If they are too scared to actually confront criminals, perhaps they shouldn't have become police officers. I would suggest a career change to something more suitable to their level of dedication. I hear that Starbucks is hiring.

 

[churchmouse]

What was that guy thinking, you have a school shooting happening and you want to call people 70 miles away, no wonder they screwed the pooch so badly, kudos to the marshalls I guess in getting there in 40 minutes.

That’s hauling tail.

 

[churchmouse]

If they are too scared to actually confront criminals, perhaps they shouldn't have become police officers. I would suggest a career change to something more suitable to their level of dedication. I hear that Starbucks is hiring.

Shortage of English speaking fork lift drivers.

 

[thompal]

This is the time line I got so far from news media...correct or add as needed.
1. Shooter was outside the school for 12 minutes before entering a unlocked door.

And sometime during that 12 minutes he was shooting at people across the street. And still the school didn't go into lockdown.

"something" must be done about these people that have guns. Right now IMHO I have never seen more liberals more worked up to take away the 2A. And we have way too many liberals in this country, and RINO's that will cave.

Yes, the liberals want to take away our guns because they want us to rely on the police to defend us. We see how well that went.

We need to revise the saying "when seconds count, police are minutes away" to add "and hours away from them actually doing anything."

 

[Tombs]

If they are too scared to actually confront criminals, perhaps they shouldn't have become police officers. I would suggest a career change to something more suitable to their level of dedication. I hear that Starbucks is hiring.

I was trying to be courteous in my statement as not to rile anything up.

Given what their acts enabled, my contempt would get me a swift ban if I stated how I felt.

 

[thompal]

Talking with a Texas LEO, he was telling me that the teacher did as she was training for active shooter, she turned the lights off and hid with her students. Responding officers asked the SRO if that was an active classroom he was in, he responded that it was not. No active shooting occurred while they were outside. The BP agents who responded were part of their "tactical" team and had access to breaching tools, it required quite a bit of effort to breach the classroom door. Street officers don't carry breaching tools, something to note for future. If an active killer barricades inside a classroom and it has to be breached, how do we get inside quickly? That is a scenario we haven't seen trained for. I might have to invest in a halligan tool.

the problem with this scenario is that students inside that classroom were calling 911 during that entire hour begging to have police save them. So, it is proved that at least some of the students hadn't been shot yet during that hour. You have to also ask how many students may have survived if they had gotten medical aid during that hour. So I don't buy his story for a second.

And apparently "breaching tools" weren't an issue because (they claim) they had difficulty finding a staff member who had a key to the room.

 

[thompal]

Talking with a Texas LEO, he was telling me that the teacher did as she was training for active shooter, she turned the lights off and hid with her students. Responding officers asked the SRO if that was an active classroom he was in, he responded that it was not. No active shooting occurred while they were outside. The BP agents who responded were part of their "tactical" team and had access to breaching tools, it required quite a bit of effort to breach the classroom door. Street officers don't carry breaching tools, something to note for future. If an active killer barricades inside a classroom and it has to be breached, how do we get inside quickly? That is a scenario we haven't seen trained for. I might have to invest in a halligan tool.

And perhaps as part of that active shooter training she was told to lock the door?

It seems that she missed a step.

 

[churchmouse]

I just set one up years ago just for such BS websites. I never check it so they can send all the spam they want.

I have a gmail so I can correspond with some ingo members in bad standing or that have questionable issues. Never thought of using it for spam relief.

I was trying to be courteous in my statement as not to rile anything up.

Given what their acts enabled, my contempt would get me a swift ban if I stated how I felt.

And perhaps as part of that active shooter training she was told to lock the door?

It seems that she missed a step.

A most important step.
A list of the failures needs to be complied and then reviewed as more info surfaces.
As to what Tombs said about his true feeling know mine would have me banning myself. This entire thing stinks like an over flowing Porta-Poddy on a hot sunny day in July.
When you take the oath and wear the badge it should be known that on any given day situations may warrant that you have to use your side arm to defend the Innocent or even yourself. If you have the slightest doubts In This then don’t apply for the job.
JMHO of course.

 

[thompal]

Per the press conference they didn’t believe after the initial shooting that anyone was alive in that classroom.

So they wrote those kids off as dead.

But the kids inside the room were calling 911 for almost an hour BEGGING the police to come save them.

 

[churchmouse]

But the kids inside the room were calling 911 for almost an hour BEGGING the police to come save them.

So more ass covering BS from that monkey circus PC

 

[thompal]

There's really no use in doom scrolling this until an official, outside investigation puts together all the pieces.

Otherwise, see signature...

Where are you going to find "outside investigators" who aren't a part of local, state, or federal LEOs, federal or state government, school systems, or teacher unions? We're already seeing the wagons being circled.