Uvalde Texas Killing

[churchmouse]

True.
In their case, the "adults" in the group (school employees) were.
The school employee propped the door open.

Just another link in the insane chain of events leading up to this. So many fails.
The end results are tragic.

 

[churchmouse]

This thread has become a true train wreck. We would have been better off with it still locked.

In truth nothing that we say or think about this is going to have a positive tone.
You have to admit that the boots on the ground 1st on scene totally ****ed up. Totally.
The entire string of events leading up to the tragedy was one failure after another.

So, when I closed the 1st one due to LEO/God bashing and opened this one I have to say there are several LE agencies that deserve a solid bashing here. But for the most part considering the emotions involved it has been pretty smooth......well sorta.

 

[drillsgt]

Just seen this article

TX School Shooter Lingered Outside School for 12 Minutes Shooting, Then Walked in Unobstructed

A new account of the Uvalde school shooting changes much of what we know about the early moments of the tragedy.

www.westernjournal.com

I've been traveling so i'm just now catching up with the new information, what epic failures all around. This is horrible, if they would have just had the classroom door locked as per school policy, there's no way he could have gotten in if the officers couldn't even do it.

"ABC reported that a law enforcement official said the police response team that entered had difficulty breaching the classroom door and needed someone to use a key to open the door."

 

[drillsgt]

I am speechless. This mother learned of the shooting while 40 miles away and still beat police into the school.

Despite being handcuffed by federal marshals who also did not enter the building.

BREAKING: Mother trying to save children at Uvalde was handcuffed by federal marshals

“The police were doing nothing. They were just standing outside the fence. They weren’t going in there or running anywhere,” the mother of two said.

thepostmillennial.com

How in the world were federal marshalls there, they are few and far between, is there a federal courthouse there or something?

 

[rooster]

How in the world were federal marshalls there, they are few and far between, is there a federal courthouse there or something?

Nearest Marshall service office is 70 miles away so a US Marshall living there or being in a car near there isn’t crazy.

 

[drillsgt]

That should've been the first step.

That shouldn't have been a step at all, according to the schools own guidance classrooms are supposed to be locked during class time.

 

[Route 45]

How in the world were federal marshalls there, they are few and far between, is there a federal courthouse there or something?

 

[indykid]

Off the wall theory, someone in the school was in on it. Someone left the door blocked open. The killer just happened to know which door. Sounds like only one classroom was attacked. The person who left the door open had an argument with one of the teachers and had the death wishing kid come in and take out the whole class just to settle an argument?

 

[Brad69]

1. No person can know how they will react in a deadly situation. You will resort to you lowest level of training IMO.

2. OODA loop (ACT) = sometimes you gotta say $#*) it and ACT. Hesitate and die sometimes you cannot wait for more information.

3. Normal LEO is not trained to breach and enter.
Who has the hooligan bar ? Which way are the hinges? Who’s gonna throw the flash bang?
Screw it let’s door a door charge! Wait lets do a roof breach!
This is really out of the wheelhouse of normal LEO operations.

4. I observed something among men if no one will take charge and do something. Everyone will hunker down and wait.

5. I spent some time with a MOH recipient Ola Mize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ola_L._Mize
I asked him about why so many of his men panicked. He stated that he didn’t blame them in his experience some people just can’t handle killing.

 

[jamil]

Imagine all the crap we don’t have evidence for.

Exactly. Everything is on the table these days.

 

[wcd]

True.

See post 170.

Does that mean discussion should be closed down?

I think I may have missed something?

 

[rooster]

Timeline of 911 calls

911 calls timeline​

12:03 p.m. - Caller whispered she was in room 112.

12:10 p.m. - She called back, saying multiple dead.

12:13 p.m. - She called back.

12:16 p.m. - She called back and said 8-9 students alive.

12:19 p.m. - Call from another person in room 111. She hung up when another student told her to.

12:36 p.m. - 911 call lasted for 21 seconds, then the initial caller called back. It was a child. Child was told to stay on the line and be very quiet. She told 911 that he shot the door

12:43 p.m. - She asked 911 to send the police.

12:46 p.m. - She said she could hear the police next door.

12:50 p.m. - Shots fired could be heard.

12:51 p.m. - Very loud, sounds like officers moving children out of room. At this time, the first child who called was outside.

Timeline: DPS director gives updated timeline in mass shooting at Uvalde, Texas school

Nineteen children and two adults were killed in the massacre.

www.khou.com

 

[drillsgt]

What was that guy thinking, you have a school shooting happening and you want to call people 70 miles away, no wonder they screwed the pooch so badly, kudos to the marshalls I guess in getting there in 40 minutes.

 

[Epicenity]

 

[Route 45]

What was that guy thinking, you have a school shooting happening and you want to call people 70 miles away, no wonder they screwed the pooch so badly, kudos to the marshalls I guess in getting there in 40 minutes.

I'm betting 70 miles in that part of Texas is not the same as 70 miles in central Indiana, with regards to the availability of law enforcement that can respond. I've not been to that particular area of Texas, but I have been to parts where it was reasonable (if not legal) to set your cruise control to 95 mph.

 

[rooster]

View attachment 202684

Should have spent a little more on training and a little less on black multicam

 

[BigRed]

I'm betting 70 miles in that part of Texas is not the same as 70 miles in central Indiana, with regards to the availability of law enforcement that can respond. I've not been to that particular area of Texas, but I have been to parts where it was reasonable (if not legal) to set your cruise control to 95 mph.

True

3 digits are common in Texas.

 

[wcd]

….

3. Normal LEO is not trained to breach and enter.
Who has the hooligan bar ? Which way are the hinges? Who’s gonna throw the flash bang?
Screw it let’s door a door charge! Wait lets do a roof breach!
This is really out of the wheelhouse of normal Leo …

Unfortunately you are correct. And I wish you were not. Sadly some local agencies are sometimes no more capable of dealing with such horrendous events than an average citizen is capable of clearing a room.

Understanding I am not living in a glass house throwing rocks. But unfortunately the absence of training appears to have been a large factor in the sequence of fails which never should have come to pass.

One can only hope that this event undergoes a forensic examination and people have a frank and honest discussion with regards to what can be done to help protect those that are precious.

 

[Shadow01]

And ol george hasn’t committed a new crime in 2 years. His arrest worked.

 

[wcd]

True

3 digits are common in Texas.

Agreed the same holds true in South Dakota it is not uncommon to see signs off the interstate that indicate the nearest gas station is 40 miles down the road. Often a trip from Sioux Falls to Pier can be made a lot faster than one would think.