Yeah, seriously, no one is owed anything. In America you have the OPPORTUNITY to EARN those things, and that's about it.
You aren't paid for how hard you work. You're paid how much it costs to replace you.
They are not "on the dole".
They are working at jobs you wouldn't do.
Only stupid people who don't know what they are talking about would have supported that.
If you aren't working there, it's not your job, it's none of your business, you don't know what you are talking about.
Federal Government picks up the tab.
Yeah, seriously, no one is owed anything.
So you aren't owned private property rights? You aren't owed rights at all? Should it be survival of the fittest? Don't like the guy in front of you that cut you off, you are OK to kill him? Not owed a right to life? Where do you draw the line? For me, it is the right to not be victimized, to have food, water, and shelter. I am OK with paying a few pennies on the dollar for that. I know a lot of folks will say "I shouldn't be paying for someone's Section 8!" and I get where they are coming from. But then I could argue I shouldn't have had to pay for rural electrification, roads, military stuff, police, fire service, ambulance service, etc.. If one argues taxes are OK for police, fire, ambulance, and/or roads, then they have no leg to stand on to say "no one is owned anything." True individual freedom can never exist. Someone will always have something they want denied, by law or whatever. I am not very big on Constitutional rights, as the way they are set-up in this country, they are only what nine people say they are, nothing more. If you want a no holds barred country, look at Somalia, because that is exactly what you will get. So while no one is really owed food, water, safety, and shelter, if those aren't provided, you might get really tired constantly having to fight off starving, thirsty people.
There is no offer to KEEP ANY ONE employed there for any length of time and no ability to enforce it even if there was.
They were offered nothig but half wages, half benefits, at a scab company with severance from a company where they already have a labor contract more than twice as good. Only stupid people who don't know what they are talking about would have supported that.
Well I am a tax payer also (as are the people we are talking about)and I don't feel it is any of my business what some other taxpayer decides about his job. Most of these people will transfer to other GM plants. If they took a cut in pay then the taxes they pay would go down by a like amount. Who do you think will make up that differance?
Shouldn't we want everyones wages and benefits to go up instead of down?
GM is making a profit now so don't say that keeping the wages they make now is putting the company out of business.
No one complained two years ago when the economy was better.
You don't want to support a union wage, buy a Kia. It's your money.
Ford didn't want, nor need a bailout,
Same American workers building the same products.
It must not be the workers or their wages.
When Cities loose manufacturing we all lose.
Indianapolis has faired better than most as far as manufacturing,
but when factories close, a greater burden is added to all of our shoulders.
Our Leaders in Washington turned a blind eye to the direction THEY chose to lead us.
You can have a few things on the list (*) but you have to save. It's a material world and a lot of people spend more than they make on luxury items.-"I won't be able to have a 50" flat screen in every room of my home."
-"I won't be able to drop $10K a year in vacations."
*-"I won't be able to have a boat."
-"I won't be able to have a second home/cabin."
*-"I won't be able to have jetskis."
Things were in a downturn, business was off. We had been working 7 days on and 7 days off. Management asked us if we'd be willing to work 5/2 at the same pay until things got better.
The only reason GM is making a profit (if they actually are) is because they got the government to screw a bunch of teachers and State Police and other folks out of their investment (secured stock) so the unions wouldn't have to suffer. Anyone can make a profit if they don't have to pay their bills.
Probably does, but if people were paid by what they produced rather than by the hours they worked it would never happen.
What's all this "none of your business" stuff? This is a discussion forum. In it, we discuss stuff. This is an item in the news, and the issues being discussed - labor, unions, factories closing, the economy - affect everyone.
So, using your logic we shouldn't be discussing any news items at all, since they're none of our business. Yeah, that's going to go over well....I thought we were discussing it. I just don't understand how some complain about people or the goverment getting in our business or personal life but they have no problem getting in other peoples lifes.(not directed at you Dross) I just don't feel it is any of our business what these people decide to do. If they want a cut in pay that is their decision, if they are willing to risk their plant closing and not having a job that is also their decison. You are right what happens affects everyone but it is still THEIR decison like it or not.
What makes all these people above somehow so special as to work a job that others won't do? Are union folks clairvoyant, do they have absolute proof of this? If you fired every person at that plant tomorrow, and posted their jobs at $15.50/hour, there would be no one showing up to apply? Only those humans beings currently employed at that plant are willing to work those jobs?
I make $19.75 an hour. A new person makes about $17.50/hour. It is a quasi-government job. Our healthcare is going up $100/month unless you are in shape (they will be doing testing) then you get it back. Welcome to the real world. Welcome to taxpayer subsidized jobs. The UAW did a lot of good safety wise. They did it too good, they got laws passed. Now that there are laws, the UAW focuses on riches, money, benefits, etc.. Well, they pushed their wages sky high, so everyone else in America followed suit. Now we have nurses, those who work in hospitals, making almost UAW wages. So that means doctors have to make even more. Healthcare costs skyrocketed, and that put GM, Ford, and everyone else into a bind. My company never paid UAW wages, and they were able to handle the massive upswing in healthcare cost. If folks want healthcare, they are going to have to pay for it.
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So, using your logic we shouldn't be discussing any news items at all, since they're none of our business. Yeah, that's going to go over well....
He forgot to mention that all of the senior people from the closing plant will be bumping less senior people out of other plants and putting them on the street.
The plant I worked at (Marion GM) had hundreds of workers come from other plants and NO ONE lost their job.
Probably does, but if people were paid by what they produced rather than by the hours they worked it would never happen.
"We pay the International to represent us, not commit fraud and work against us,"