Told by FWPD illegal to OC in Indiana

[CathyInBlue]

We've been over this a thousand times already. No one is saying all police have to know all of the law all of the time.

We're saying the police have to know the law that they are attempting to enforce at the time they are attempting to enforce it.

 

[Skywired]

We've been over this a thousand times already. No one is saying all police have to know all of the law all of the time.

We're saying the police have to know the law that they are attempting to enforce at the time they are attempting to enforce it.

AMEN. AMEN. AMEN. Why is this even a debatable point????

 

[T-DOGG]

I believe that this was a response of a single officer, not so familiar with the state regulation. Indiana doesn't provide a concealed carry permit unlike other states, it is called "license to carry handgun". There is no legal obligation to conceal the handgun, although it is advisable. Even Bryan Ciyou, a top firearms law attorney from Indianapolis, recommends concealed carry. Personally I wouldn't carry open and let everybody see that I'm armed, especially anybody that has something bad in mind.
The Police Chief in Fort Wayne is clearly anti-gun and is proud of the amount of firearms that are taken off the streets every year. Unfortunately the shootings are not getting less and the gang problem is not solved by seizing a few firearms. I would ask for clarification and demand a clear answer from FWPD about open carry. Let me know if you get an satisfying answer.

First, if you are going to post in this thread, please read the opening post in it's entirety. This was the act of not one officer, but two.

Second, this is not a thread about what people's opinions are on whether I should carry open or concealed. I personally could care less what other people recommend, advise, or feel on how I should carry my handgun. IT'S MY CHOICE. I don't give two sheets about what some clown who wrote a book advises that I do or don't do. The law is the law. I'm within my legal rights, if certain people don't like that, they can go fly a kite.

Third, if you read some more of the thread, I am no longer asking for clarification, I am providing it. I am also threatening legal action if my violation of rights is not acknowledged. I will not be harassed by anyone, be it police or private citizens, for exercising my legal rights. If I open carry around you and it offends you, simply look the other way and leave me the hell alone.

Travis

 

[actaeon277]

First, if you are going to post in this thread, please read the opening post in it's entirety. This was the act of not one officer, but two.

Second, this is not a thread about what people's opinions are on whether I should carry open or concealed. I personally could care less what other people recommend, advise, or feel on how I should carry my handgun. IT'S MY CHOICE. I don't give two sheets about what some clown who wrote a book advises that I do or don't do. The law is the law. I'm within my legal rights, if certain people don't like that, they can go fly a kite.

Third, if you read some more of the thread, I am no longer asking for clarification, I am providing it. I am also threatening legal action if my violation of rights is not acknowledged. I will not be harassed by anyone, be it police or private citizens, for exercising my legal rights. If I open carry around you and it offends you, simply look the other way and leave me the hell alone.

Travis

Go get 'em T-ddog.
Woof woof.

 

[thompal]

AMEN. AMEN. AMEN. Why is this even a debatable point????

Because there are so many of them that attempt to enforce laws that don't exist.

 

[Hammerhead]

Because there are so many of them that attempt to enforce laws that don't exist.

Or attempt to enforce their opinion as DA LAW.

 

[Ted]

......I believe Mr. Ciyou could repair some of that damage by clarifying which are law and which are opinions in his book, but I'm not the author of it.



Blessings,
Bill

After reviewing his book a few times, his opinions seem to be directed more to gun owners not rocking the boat.

Its not bad advice, per se, as not rocking the boat avoids confrontation. As confrontation too often leads to police and legal involvement....and has the potential of costing even the lawfully carrying gun owner, time off work and attorney fees.

 

[AndersonIN]

After reviewing his book a few times, his opinions seem to be directed more to gun owners not rocking the boat.

Its not bad advice, per se, as not rocking the boat avoids confrontation. As confrontation too often leads to police and legal involvement....and has the potential of costing even the lawfully carrying gun owner, time off work and attorney fees.

I agree 100%. Just like when he was recently on the Garrison show......make sure not to upset the State Police that was there........just like Garrison. I emailed Garrison to tell him I didn't appreciate his backing down when it came to the law versus opinion and I hoped he didn't do the same in court. As I remarked to him I'm sure its so his guests won't get mad and not come back on the air. For some reason he didn't seem to appreciate my comment.

 

[Birds Away]

I believe that this was a response of a single officer, not so familiar with the state regulation. Indiana doesn't provide a concealed carry permit unlike other states, it is called "license to carry handgun". There is no legal obligation to conceal the handgun, although it is advisable. Even Bryan Ciyou, a top firearms law attorney from Indianapolis, recommends concealed carry. Personally I wouldn't carry open and let everybody see that I'm armed, especially anybody that has something bad in mind.
The Police Chief in Fort Wayne is clearly anti-gun and is proud of the amount of firearms that are taken off the streets every year. Unfortunately the shootings are not getting less and the gang problem is not solved by seizing a few firearms. I would ask for clarification and demand a clear answer from FWPD about open carry. Let me know if you get an satisfying answer.

You're new here, huh?

 

[KG1]

After reviewing his book a few times, his opinions seem to be directed more to gun owners not rocking the boat.

Its not bad advice, per se, as not rocking the boat avoids confrontation. As confrontation too often leads to police and legal involvement....and has the potential of costing even the lawfully carrying gun owner, time off work and attorney fees.

Yeah maybe your right. I guess we shouldn't "rock the boat" and defend ourselves and have a duty to run away when someone breaks into our homes wielding a baseball bat with the intent of caving our skulls in.

 

[Bill of Rights]

After reviewing his book a few times, his opinions seem to be directed more to gun owners not rocking the boat.

Its not bad advice, per se, as not rocking the boat avoids confrontation. As confrontation too often leads to police and legal involvement....and has the potential of costing even the lawfully carrying gun owner, time off work and attorney fees.

The quote isn't 100% applicable, of course, but Laurel Thatcher Ulrich made famous the statement that "Well-behaved women seldom make history." The thought does carry over, however. When all we do is "not rock the boat", all we end up doing is appeasing those who would continue ratcheting down tighter regulations on those who succumb to others with a thirst for power and control over others. Those confrontations have indeed led to police and legal involvement for such people as Dick Heller and Otis McDonald, and both have taken the necessary steps to secure the rights our forefathers fought to have recognized in the first place.

We're not all willing to be the test case, nor are we all the "perfect plaintiff" such suits seem to require, but if we "don't rock the boat", we're just along for the ride, benefiting from those who have gone before; only taking and never giving back.

Perhaps that's a way of life some people can live with. I can't and I won't try. I don't judge you for doing that if that's your comfort zone, but I question how someone can do that and at the same time feel a kinship with our Founders.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Ted]

Yeah maybe your right. I guess we shouldn't "rock the boat" and defend ourselves and have a duty to run away when someone breaks into our homes wielding a baseball bat with the intent of caving our skulls in.

I didn't state that, and you know perfectly well that that wasn't the intent of my post.

The quote isn't 100% applicable, of course, but Laurel Thatcher Ulrich made famous the statement that "Well-behaved women seldom make history." The thought does carry over, however. When all we do is "not rock the boat", all we end up doing is appeasing those who would continue ratcheting down tighter regulations on those who succumb to others with a thirst for power and control over others. Those confrontations have indeed led to police and legal involvement for such people as Dick Heller and Otis McDonald, and both have taken the necessary steps to secure the rights our forefathers fought to have recognized in the first place.

We're not all willing to be the test case, nor are we all the "perfect plaintiff" such suits seem to require, but if we "don't rock the boat", we're just along for the ride, benefiting from those who have gone before; only taking and never giving back.

Perhaps that's a way of life some people can live with. I can't and I won't try. I don't judge you for doing that if that's your comfort zone, but I question how someone can do that and at the same time feel a kinship with our Founders.

Blessings,
Bill

Perhaps I should have rather stated that Ciyou is more apt to play it safe, as far as the law is concerned.

As an attorney, he likely believes it would be unethical to otherwise advise anyone to engage in physical confrontation ...............consistent with the Indiana Supreme Court's decision with the idea of preventing violence and using the courts as recourse.

I don't agree with his opinions in such regard, though I do understand them.

 

[CathyInBlue]

... if we "don't rock the boat", we're just along for the ride, benefiting from those who have gone before; only taking and never giving back.

Sig line worthy.

I don't agree with his opinions [STRIKE]in[/STRIKE] and as such, I disregard them.

More how I feel.

 

[KG1]

I didn't state that, and you know perfectly well that that wasn't the intent of my post.



Perhaps I should have rather stated that Ciyou is more apt to play it safe, as far as the law is concerned.

As an attorney, he likely believes it would be unethical to otherwise advise anyone to engage in physical confrontation ...............consistent with the Indiana Supreme Court's decision with the idea of preventing violence and using the courts as recourse.

I don't agree with his opinions in such regard, though I do understand them.

If it were up to Bryan Ciyou there would be no such thing as Standing your Ground or a Castle Doctrine.

Some of us have a problem with that is all I'm saying and as I've stated previously in another thread, just because he is knowledgeable in Indiana Firearm and Defense law doesn't necessacarily make him a staunch supporter of the 2A or the right of Self Defense for that matter.

 

[Ted]

If it were up to Bryan Ciyou there would be no such thing as Standing your Ground or a Castle Doctrine.

Some of us have a problem with that is all I'm saying and as I've stated previously in another thread, just because he is knowledgeable in Indiana Firearm and Defense law doesn't necessacarily make him a staunch supporter of the 2A or the right of Self Defense for that matter.

I don't disagree with anything you stated in that post.

All I am stating, that he tends to support actions which avoids confrontation outside the courtroom....even at the expense of one's immediate liberty.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I didn't state that, and you know perfectly well that that wasn't the intent of my post.



Perhaps I should have rather stated that Ciyou is more apt to play it safe, as far as the law is concerned.

As an attorney, he likely believes it would be unethical to otherwise advise anyone to engage in physical confrontation ...............consistent with the Indiana Supreme Court's decision with the idea of preventing violence and using the courts as recourse.

I don't agree with his opinions in such regard, though I do understand them.

I also understand his viewpoint and also disagree with his opinions. That said, though not a lawyer myself, I've given similar non-binding opinions here, such as in the discussion of the roving "school zone" application of the law in re: property being used by a school for a school function. (If there's interest, I'll post a link to one of those discussions, but I don't want to derail this) I do believe in playing it safe when my prospective opponent has the full weight, power, and resources of the government to ruin my whole day. In addition, Mr. Ciyou has the additional responsibility of being not only an attorney, but as the author of that book, the purported statewide expert, to whose work everyone else looks for "the answers". If his advice could be construed as telling people to seek out confrontation (it can't, I know) I could see how some judge could make life very difficult for him, too.

This does not, IMHO, necessarily lead to a criticism/critique/naysaying of OC, Castle Doctrine, or any of the other lawful courses of action with which he disagrees, and as such, I do think those are on him. SD is not vigilantism, no matter how many anti-gunners think otherwise.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[HiRoller]

Sounds like we all need some yard cards made up with the following;

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Does Indiana statute require me to carry the handgun on my person concealed or

exposed?
[/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][/FONT]
Indiana law is silent on this issue; however, carrying an exposed weapon in public may

alarm some people. Also, the right to carry a firearm may be restricted on private

property and businesses by the owners. Be attentive for signs warning of restricted

areas when carrying firearms into public places. If approached by law enforcement for

official business such as traffic stops or complaint related inquiries, it is recommended

that you tell the officer in a non-threatening manner that you are carrying a weapon or

have a weapon in the vehicle and that you have a valid permit. A law enforcement

officer does have the right to inspect the permit.

 

[ATM]

Sounds like we all need some yard cards made up with the following...

I'd rather cite something with authority like IC rather than have them read a misleading opinion piece written by nobody in particular which holds zero weight.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

I have this little cute pink piece of paper that states per the Indiana State Police that I'm allowed to carry any firearm legally possessed by myself.. I'm I free to leave or are you detaining me?

Is that non-threatening enough?

 

[ATM]

I have this little cute pink piece of paper that states per the Indiana State Police that I'm allowed to carry any firearm legally possessed by myself.. I'm I free to leave or are you detaining me?

Is that non-threatening enough?

It might be for anybody else


...but you are definitely getting tased, bro.