To Mask or Not to Mask?

[Route 45]

This is what pisses me off. I'm a UAW member. All of the union officials claim they don't want to wear masks, but "the company says we have to". What's the purpose of a union if it's not going to stand up as a UNION and tell the company to **** off? I can guarantee the company would change their mind if the union actually did their job.

The UAW is doing its job. It took your dues, thanks you very much for your input, and has endorsed Joe Biden for President.

Here's your mask...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

This is what pisses me off. I'm a UAW member. All of the union officials claim they don't want to wear masks, but "the company says we have to". What's the purpose of a union if it's not going to stand up as a UNION and tell the company to **** off? I can guarantee the company would change their mind if the union actually did their job.

As the **** was hitting the fan back in March, the union (UAW) at our plant practically walked off the job because management wasn’t doing enough to keep them safe. According to the information that was given, the management worked closely with the UAW health and safety folks to make sure the protocols they were putting in place were acceptable to all. If your officials don’t agree with wearing a mask, (assuming you’re working for a GM/Chrysler/Ford plant as they kind of coordinated this with each other), then they should have spoken up a few weeks ago.

It’s been my experience working for GM that if you demand they do something (especially with regards to safety), then don’t be surprised if they do something that you don’t like...because it usually sucks.

 

[BugI02]

please, I'm just saying that being reflexively against everything suggested makes you no better than the person who will blindly follow, 2 sides of the same coin. And if you read my post before that you'd see that I don't agree with making it a law, but rather a suggestion. Masks are $2, 3 for $5, they aren't killing you, but with how the virus is spiking because people aren't following suggestions, people are right, we will never get over this because people refuse to A) social distance and B) wear a mask. These are tyrannical suggestions, but when you see public freakout moments when people are refused service because they aren't wearing a mask, it's always the same excuses and makes anyone who wants to reopen the economy look bad because we're thrown into the same pot.

also, I find it funny that you think following a minor suggestion because it's a practical manner is bootlicking. I'd rather see half the laws on the books abolished, but suggesting people wear a mask? Hold the presses and rev up the leather tanning (joke). If you blindly oppose without critical thought, you are no different than someone who blindly follows without critical thought, neither of you are thinking and analyzing your actions, it's just reflexive and simple minded.

Dude, you're the one who brought 'bootlicker' into the discussion, I just ran with it]

The wearing of a mask isn't to protect YOU, it's to protect everyone else. That 3% is found from how a person wearing a mask talking to another person without is a 95% reduction in transmission, and then if both parties have a mask, it is reduced to 98% transmission risk, so that 3% difference is where that number comes from. Many people trying to spit out "news" are blatantly playing on your weariness for any official suggestion, but you'll take the suggestion from some rando on facebook who'll push essential oils and not vaccinating because they posted a text image with no sources.

I'm going to get scientific here, so try to follow. You are not risking yourself by not wearing a mask, you are risking others, because of how the particles disperse out of the mouth. By the time they get to you from another, they are mostly too small for the mask, but if you stop the particles from the start at the speaker's mouth, they are in larger groupings and thus able to be caught by the cloth masks. The best way to stop this kind of infection is to get it before it has the time to separate in the air, and thus making it small enough to slip through the mask.

And if you actually read my posts, you'd know that I don't advocate making masks mandatory by law, but people like you are the type that will huff and puff and scream at a store for not wanting you to be an unknown carrier spreading it to others. People like you are the type people point at saying that it needs to be a law. You have no knowledge of how pathogens and viruses work and probably saw a facebook conspiracy image and took it at face value.

In addition to the lion's share of your posts reminding me that "The two hemispheres are fundamentally at odds", you are condescending without the science chops to back it up. Now, I know it isn't as good as a fifth grade science project done by some TV station that fails to comprehend that a bacterium is on the order of 1000 times as large as a virus, a cloth mask stopping a bacterium in no way indicates it would stop a virus and a virus wouldn't grow in agar so its a poor choice of indicating medium; but try this one on. It is a scientific study with controls and measures the protection offerred by a cloth mask in a known infectious environment. I've highlighted an important part for you

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/
A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

Results


The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

you're welcome

 

[churchmouse]

OK peoples

 

[Nickbau5]

It is a scientific study with controls and measures the protection offerred by a cloth mask in a known infectious environment. I've highlighted an important part for you

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/
A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

That study is measuring inhalation risk, not the reduction from exhalation, and you picked your quote from the Abstract. The point of wearing a mask isn't to protect yourself, it's to protect others from you. If you are an asymptomatic carrier but still able to infect, yes, people wearing a mask aren't safe from you, because you aren't wearing one and able to stop it while it was still in larger groupings. Yes, masks don't filter your inhalation well, but they filter exhalation better, and if both parties have masks it reduces infection risk much more than 1 party. That study is of healthcare workers from 2015 being protected from patients without masks, so I don't believe it is relevant to the point of wearing a mask to protect others. By the time it has traveled through the air to you, the particles are smaller and able to penetrate the makes more easily, but when they are straight out of the mask, the particles are grouped together enough to be caught by the mask. Wearing a mask is to prevent giving Covid to others, but you seems to only be reading about "well if it doesn't protect ME, then why should I have to" which is a wrong way of thinking about it.

think of it like this, if you **** yourself and you're not wearing anything down there, you're spraying **** everywhere, and if neither of us are wearing anything, I get **** on my skin. Now if it was just me wearing pants, yes, I would still be at risk for **** getting through, but if both of us were wearing pants, there is a significantly lower chance of you pissing on me, could some get through ,sure, nothing is 100%, but it significantly reduces the chance and catches it while it is still in it's larger particle groupings.

also, per the University of California San Fransisco as of June 26th of 2020

Masks may be more effective as a “source control” because they can prevent larger expelled droplets from evaporating into smaller droplets that can travel farther.

 

[churchmouse]

That study is measuring inhalation risk, not the reduction from exhalation, and you picked your quote from the Abstract. The point of wearing a mask isn't to protect yourself, it's to protect others from you. If you are an asymptomatic carrier but still able to infect, yes, people wearing a mask aren't safe from you, because you aren't wearing one and able to stop it while it was still in larger groupings. Yes, masks don't filter your inhalation well, but they filter exhalation better, and if both parties have masks it reduces infection risk much more than 1 party. That study is of healthcare workers from 2015 being protected from patients without masks, so I don't believe it is relevant to the point of wearing a mask to protect others. By the time it has traveled through the air to you, the particles are smaller and able to penetrate the makes more easily, but when they are straight out of the mask, the particles are grouped together enough to be caught by the mask. Wearing a mask is to prevent giving Covid to others, but you seems to only be reading about "well if it doesn't protect ME, then why should I have to" which is a wrong way of thinking about it.

think of it like this, if you **** yourself and you're not wearing anything down there, you're spraying **** everywhere, and if neither of us are wearing anything, I get **** on my skin. Now if it was just me wearing pants, yes, I would still be at risk for **** getting through, but if both of us were wearing pants, there is a significantly lower chance of you pissing on me, could some get through ,sure, nothing is 100%, but it significantly reduces the chance and catches it while it is still in it's larger particle groupings.

also, per the University of California San Fransisco as of June 26th of 2020

OK you are close to pissing yourself.
Step off.

 

[JeepHammer]

AND....

I STILL don't care.

Pages & pages of arguments, few relevant to ME, my situation.

What is relevant is I'm at the top of the risk groups,
And a mask, disinfecting works the same way it always has, all through countless studies at hospitals...
The reason disinfecting and masks are required in infectious disease wards, and in surgical suites.

3% chance of infecting someone healthy with a mask.
Less than 1% chance someone healthy with mask and common disinfecting.
24% or more, depending on how infectious/long lived the contagion is, without a mask & proper disinfection protocols.
Since this is the same family of virus as the common cold, that's about 24% at every encounter with someone infected.

And since I can't count on anyone at random using a mask or effective disinfection protocols, I treat the rest of you like walking virus factories.

I REALLY could care less about your politics, misinformation, lack of education, or what ever else is YOUR issue,
YOUR issues NOT being my problem, just the potential infection YOU can be spreading...

MY MASK AND ALCOHOL BOTTLE ARE ABOUT *ME*... YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE ANY OF *MY* MEDICAL DECISIONS, PERIOD.

THEREFORE, ANY 'DEBATE' ON THE SUBJECT IS WASTING MY TIME.

 

[jkaetz]

AND....

I STILL don't care.

Pages & pages of arguments, few relevant to ME, my situation.

What is relevant is I'm at the top of the risk groups,
And a mask, disinfecting works the same way it always has, all through countless studies at hospitals...
The reason disinfecting and masks are required in infectious disease wards, and in surgical suites.

3% chance of infecting someone healthy with a mask.
Less than 1% chance getting infecting someone healthy with mask and common disinfecting.
And since I can't count on anyone at random using a mask or effective disinfection protocols, I treat the rest of you like walking virus factories.

I REALLYcould care less about your politics, misinformation, lack of education, or what ever else is YOUR issue,

MY MASK AND ALCOHOL BOTTLE ARE ABOUT *ME*... YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE ANY OF *MY* MEDICAL DECISIONS, PERIOD.

THEREFORE, ANY 'DEBATE' ON THE SUBJECT IS WASTING MY TIME.

I don't think anyone has argued that one shouldn't have the ability to wear a mask or make their own decisions about mask wear. Most of the arguments have been:

• It shouldn't be mandated
• Cloth masks are pointless (so why bother)
• Improper wear of masks is pointless (see above)
• Masks invite more face touching (potentially more surface contamination or contamination of the mask itself)
• Masks are to protect healthy people from sick people (So why don't we focus on encouraging/enabling sick people to stay home instead of trying to create a one size fits all solution?)
• If masks are an effective solution, why is the world still shut down?

 

[JettaKnight]

OK you are close to pissing yourself.
Step off.

Yeah, this whole thread is sweatier than me after a midday walk.


Needs to cool off.

 

[churchmouse]

I don't think anyone has argued that one shouldn't have the ability to wear a mask or make their own decisions about mask wear. Most of the arguments have been:

• It shouldn't be mandated
• Cloth masks are pointless (so why bother)
• Improper wear of masks is pointless (see above)
• Masks invite more face touching (potentially more surface contamination or contamination of the mask itself)
• Masks are to protect healthy people from sick people (So why don't we focus on encouraging/enabling sick people to stay home instead of trying to create a one size fits all solution?)
• If masks are an effective solution, why is the world still shut down?

And we have a winner.

It seems we are all on the edge of the edge hanging over the edge. Looking for any relevant excuse to pop off and go spastic. I get it and trust me there are a few trolls lingering about that I would love to meet FTF. Believe it.

Now, we all have our beliefs and opinions that have been learned and adapted form life. And we all have something to offer but in this its how we offer it.
I have had this damned virus. My daughter and the terrorists had this damned virus. My spouse and SIL did not get it so **** everybody its not that critical. If it were I would be dead as I have a seriously compromised immune system as does my spouse. And she was right here with me the whole time. We had no idea what I or the kids had just a bas ass flu. We had other friends that were down around the same time. Right at Christmas.
I had some blood pressure issues to deal with (go figure ) and actually got a FTF Dr visit. I was in there about 4 hours doing the tests and mentioned how sick we had been but before the spin masters said it was around. They took more blood and what do you know. I had the antibody's in my blood. No flu shoots in my entire life. Dr verified it and he agreed this is a serious pile of excrement. Yes it is bad if you get it. Kicked my ass for days.
Now, to those few on here that said I did not have it you can K*** My ***. I grow very weary of the trolls and bait masters. Very very weary.

Now, step off or just don't post OK. Say your piece and keep it civil. My patience is gone.
Stir the pot one more time and a lot of folks will wonder why they can no longer log on here.

 

[dave6]

If anyone is in need of a mask, here is the one I just ordered:
https://shop.asmdss.com/collections...s-our-mayor-face-cover?variant=31648930889797

They have a lot of other good ones as well.

 

[Route 45]

If anyone is in need of a mask, here is the one I just ordered:
https://shop.asmdss.com/collections...s-our-mayor-face-cover?variant=31648930889797

They have a lot of other good ones as well.

You're new here, so some will probably not click on your link. But I did, because I'm reckless like that on the internet.

I like it. Welcome to INGO.

 

[JettaKnight]

Stir the pot one more time and a lot of folks will wonder why they can no longer log on here.

Sometime I wonder why I can still log on!




But seriously, CM, glad you found out the truth in your personal situation.

We should make you a rainbow Tshirt - "I survived Coronavirus with the help of unicorns!"

 

[BugI02]

I don't think anyone has argued that one shouldn't have the ability to wear a mask or make their own decisions about mask wear. Most of the arguments have been:

• It shouldn't be mandated
• Cloth masks are pointless (so why bother)
• Improper wear of masks is pointless (see above)
• Masks invite more face touching (potentially more surface contamination or contamination of the mask itself)
• Masks are to protect healthy people from sick people (So why don't we focus on encouraging/enabling sick people to stay home instead of trying to create a one size fits all solution?)
• If masks are an effective solution, why is the world still shut down?

• [And the surface of your eyes are mucus membranes, too. If you wear a mask without eyepro in an enclosed environment you're not getting the protection you believe you are]

"I don't think anyone has argued that one shouldn't have the ability to wear a mask or make their own decisions about mask wear". Amen

 

[BugI02]

You're new here, so some will probably not click on your link. But I did, because I'm reckless like that on the internet.

I like it. Welcome to INGO.

Redbubble actually has thousands of designs available, they seem to be acting like an etsy for mask designers with it

 

[Nickbau5]

OK you are close to pissing yourself.
Step off.

I don't see what was wrong in that post, I am stating the difference between thinking masks are for the sake of the wearer and the sake of the general populace, and then giving an easy to understand analogy that fits, and then a source from a university about it. If trying to teach people that what they think the point of a mask is is wrong and it's "stirring the pot", then call me call me a line cook. You having the virus should be a thing to look at of "how many people did I come into contact with while infected and I wasn't wearing a mask", it's the thing that the people demanding more lockdowns and making masks law will point to saying "the people can't be trusted on their own, they need the police to enforce it". I never said to make masks mandatory, but it seems people think that suggesting the act of wearing them out of courtesy is on the same level as the statsi.

Bottom line is, my dad is high risk and wears a mask, I wear a mask, and I wish more people would because you could be a carrier and not know it while infecting everyone you go near.

 

[JCSR]

I don't see what was wrong in that post, I am stating the difference between thinking masks are for the sake of the wearer and the sake of the general populace, and then giving an easy to understand analogy that fits, and then a source from a university about it. If trying to teach people that what they think the point of a mask is is wrong and it's "stirring the pot", then call me call me a line cook. You having the virus should be a thing to look at of "how many people did I come into contact with while infected and I wasn't wearing a mask", it's the thing that the people demanding more lockdowns and making masks law will point to saying "the people can't be trusted on their own, they need the police to enforce it". I never said to make masks mandatory, but it seems people think that suggesting the act of wearing them out of courtesy is on the same level as the statsi.

Bottom line is, my dad is high risk and wears a mask, I wear a mask, and I wish more people would because you could be a carrier and not know it while infecting everyone you go near.

If you're scared, sick or high risk stay at home. "Quarantine is when you restrict movement of sick people," "Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people."

 

[Nickbau5]

If you're scared, sick or high risk stay at home. "Quarantine is when you restrict movement of sick people," "Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people."

yes...if you read my previous posts, you'd see I want to reopen, but I also think people should, out of courtesy wear masks. The issue here is that you could be sick without knowing it and able to spread before having symptoms, so you may not know to stay home until you've already infected several people. That is the point I'm trying to get at, but there are too many people who look at wearing a mask as "this is mind control, let me decide my own health", when the mask isn't for the sake of the wearer

 

[greaburns]

I don't know why this is even a question. Looking at the countries most successful at controlling the outbreak to see what they have in common and you find a) when they can't social distance they wear masks, b) they social distance when they can, c) they test often, and d) they actively do contact tracing and quarantine. Kind of gets old to hear on one hand folks saying they are patriots and will do whatever the can for their country and then on the other hand whining about masks. Their country is the people in the country. Then there are those who claim wearing a mask is bad for you. Really. So your surgeons, who may wear a mask for 4, 6, or 8 hours at a stretch, are actually operating while impaired? Seems unlikely. I just wish people would be honest and say "I don't like wearing a mask and I don't care if my actions endanger others". So until they have enough time to figure this out I plan to do what the successful countries have done.

 

[JCSR]

Help!!!!!! We're being taken over by nannies..........