To Mask or Not to Mask?

[CampingJosh]

The concept of "prior restraint", while usually applied to the First Amendment, is not strictly limited to such application.

Also, can you really not conceive of refusing to take a particular action in protest -- whether mandated or strongly encouraged -- as a speech issue?

Your thoughts on what a thing should be do not necessarily make it so.

I feel like that's a bit of a stretch.

Are stop signs now to be considered a prior restraint, too?

 

[buckwacker]

90-100 people there and the only ones that caught it were the ones who interacted with the DJ WITHOUT WEARING A MASK themselves.

And that's your take away?

Yes. We've been told that wearing a mask is primarily to protect others. You claimed we should wear masks to protect against presymtomatic spread, and used the DJ example as evidence that presymtomatic spread happened. So using YOUR example, do they work or not?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Sounds like lawyer logic to me.

Good day, counselor.

 

[buckwacker]

Sounds like lawyer logic to me.

Good day, counselor.

Is that a no?

 

[nonobaddog]

I wear a 3-ply disposable surgical mask with metal nose pieces and form them so that my glasses don't fog. Over the top I wear yowee/neck gaiter that seals the sides of the mask flush against my face. This rig "passes" the vape test that many have posted a video here in these threads.

I have a real good P100 respirator mask I have been wearing on rare occasions when I have to. However it has a few hours on it now and is probably losing some of its effectiveness.

I have a few 3M N95 masks I might have to wear some time. Do those Yowie gaiters push the mask in toward your mouth? or just help them seal better?
I assume the gaiters are washable since they are just polyester and don't filter much of anything.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Is that a no?

Magic Shield of Zeldor protection, no.

Four of the six people at my table requested songs... with masks. Zero infections.

Lots of people requested songs through the night... only those without masks got infected.

So, yeah, masks work and doubly so if both parties are wearing masks.

So I'll ask you... do seatbelts and airbags work?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I have a real good P100 respirator mask I have been wearing on rare occasions when I have to. However it has a few hours on it now and is probably losing some of its effectiveness.

I have a few 3M N95 masks I might have to wear some time. Do those Yowie gaiters push the mask in toward your mouth? or just help them seal better?
I assume the gaiters are washable since they are just polyester and don't filter much of anything.

If you have respirators and are comfortable wearing them, that is more protective. I used some back in the day for home rehab projects and they are not very breathable in my experience, but that was a heavy labor situation.

The yowie seals the mask flat against my face so that I breath in and out through the mask, not "around" it. It doesn't push the mask into my mouth or anything like that. And, yeah, I put them in a mesh bag and launder normally.

For the surgical masks, there's a link somewhere I posted eons ago to "test them"... basically, the blue outer layer should be moisture repellent, the white inner layer that goes against your mouth should be moisture absorbent and the middle layer should be melt-blown synthetic, electrostatic and should melt at flame like parachord not burn like tissue paper. I hang mine in the car and re-use them. If it's been awhile, worn for a long duration (all day) or accidentally touch the inner layer, I toss it.

ETA: Yeah, I only use the yowie to keep the mask snug and eliminate gaps... I don't think it's a protective layer at all. The whole thing breathes pretty easy which was my main issue with cloth masks. Also, the metal nose piece makes nose bridge much easier, which was another issue with cloth masks, IMO.

And, of course, the bank robber look.

 

[Lex Concord]

I feel like that's a bit of a stretch.

Are stop signs now to be considered a prior restraint, too?

Stop signs are a bad example here as understanding their meaning and reacting/behaving appropriately are part and parcel of an activity that is licensed by the state (read privilege).

Walking around in public is a right.

If one chooses to walk around in public without a mask in violation of a mask mandate because he disagrees with the mandate, is that not a form of protest? Is protest not speech? Is speech not protected by the First Amendment?

You may feel the application is a stretch. A court may not. I could see the argument being made.

 

[MinutemanPatriot]

So masks don't work then?

According to those who make the masks and a good number of health experts, NO.



For this reason I don't, that and I have a couple respiratory conditions that preclude me wearing one. If people ask me, I tell them I'm exempt, if they ask why, I invoke HIPAA and say nunya bidness.

 

[NKBJ]

Why isn't anyone marketing pomanders? The sense of smell is arguably the most powerful in modifying behavior. Surely if people can be terrorized into brow beating their fellows to conform to their fears like this, some enterprising soul can piggyback aromatherapy into the phobia and make a killing.

 

[churchmouse]

Do they actually work.....I doubt it but I am not a scientist nor did we stay at the Holiday Inn last night. And I doubt those telling us what to do have any interests other than control i.e. the little squirrel boy Fauci. JMHO and will not be argued.

We will put one on just to get into the store so we do not put an employee in a spot and once in the nose is exposed "SO I CAN FRACKING BREATH"
Then you see all the employees doing the same or even no mask covering mouth or nose. Go figure.

Face it people we are well over this crap.

Again, if you are scared then wear one. No worries.
If you are compromised then wear one and again no worries or here is an option we have mulled over before. Stay your butt at home OK.

 

[jamil]

Ok. I've let this one go a few times. If you claim to be Christian, morality and belief do have a role to play. Several here do make such claims.

I missed this. Yeah. I have something to say about that.

Morality is indeed tightly coupled to belief such that if you believe a certain behavior is immoral, and then you intentionally or negligently do that behavior, you've done something that is immoral. Some people would call that moral relativism. It is, and it isn't. In the way that it is relative, moral rules are relative to belief. There is objective morality, but it's very basic. The ways that morals aren't relative is in that the rules that expand the objective moral foundations that span across humanity (all cultures, all people, basically share these) are the things that are relative, but the foundations those rules are built upon are not.

One example of an objective moral is kin altruism. That moral spans across all cultures in humans. But, different cultures might evolve different rules around kin ultruism. For example, one culture (culture A) might develop rules that say one's estate must pass onto the firstborn. It would be immoral then for the estate to go to someone else. Another culture (culture B) might require one's estate to pass onto all children equally. Okay, so is it objectively immoral for someone in culture B to pass his estate onto his children equally? No. Someone from culture A might think so, and might attack culture B for being immoral. But that's only a social construct based on belief.

So if you judge someone according to your own relative morals, that's kinda ******. But, it's fine to judge a Christian by objective Christian standards (I make that caveat because there are > 200 Christian bodies who have different enough beliefs to matter). If it's a belief you share in common, then go ahead and judge them by your standards.

My contention in the mask debate is that it's not a moral issue, because the people you're arguing with don't believe that masks work, and/or they don't believe that covid is really any worse than the flu. And it's not for the lack of effort that they've arrived at a different conclusion. They have different sources telling them different things. And they believe those sources because they don't trust yours. So. Is it fruitful to look down your nose at them atop your (rhetorical "your") pedestal of righteousness and cast judgement through the lens of your own knowledge/belief? No. The problem is trust in the information available. So you guys should talk about that instead and drop the moral posturing.

 

[BigRed]

Wow..... Almost 4,000 posts on mask BS.

That's impressive even by INGO standards!

 

[jamil]

Wow..... Almost 4,000 posts on mask BS.

That's impressive even by INGO standards!

It’s a contentious issue.

 

[drillsgt]

90-100 people there and the only ones that caught it were the ones who interacted with the DJ WITHOUT WEARING A MASK themselves.

And that's your take away?

So the DJ's mask didn't work then?

 

[CampingJosh]

If one chooses to walk around in public without a mask in violation of a mask mandate because he disagrees with the mandate, is that not a form of protest? Is protest not speech? Is speech not protected by the First Amendment?

My point was that you can make such a claim with literally any law. Breaking a law is a political action. That doesn't make it protected free speech.

 

[MCgrease08]

I've been pretty much rotating through the same 4-5 cheap paper surgical masks since this whole deal started back in March. When it's required I put one on as I approach the store and take it off the second I exit. When done the mask goes back into the glove box of the car. Not hung around the rear view mirror, because that just looks trashy.

I know masks must be super effective and magical, because I haven't caught the Rona yet, despite the masks being worn to the point of near disintegration.

 

[ditcherman]

Yes. We've been told that wearing a mask is primarily to protect others. You claimed we should wear masks to protect against presymtomatic spread, and used the DJ example as evidence that presymtomatic spread happened. So using YOUR example, do they work or not?

Not seeing the multi-quote now but this is also to 3664 in part.
Could it be that it goes back to the old saying "it takes two"? That seems pretty logical to me.
I mean, could it really be just that simple? Of course, no one wants to make it that simple, that wouldn't fit their agenda.
We don't know for sure who had on what kind of mask, and to try to draw hard and fast conclusions from this incident is ridiculous. SD4L is just drawing his own conclusions from his experience, I don't see him on here trying to convince you of anything.
One thing that is worse than mandated mask wearing is intellectual dishonesty, where a person makes up his mind and then just pokes and pokes at every little corner to try to make his point, ignoring any input that does not fit his agenda. In fact, intellectual dishonesty is probably what is leading this country and the whole world right now. Be apart of the solution, not a part of the problem.

 

[ditcherman]

Wow..... Almost 4,000 posts on mask BS.

That's impressive even by INGO standards!

You know there are 20,000 to 25000 posts on the beer bug subject I assume...

 

[qwerty]

90-100 people there and the only ones that caught it were the ones who interacted with the DJ WITHOUT WEARING A MASK themselves.

And that's your take away?

What county was this event in? 90-100 people with a DJ, sound like social distancing was less of a concern than mask wearing.