the "no plane" theory

[CTS]

Still, the towers weren't dropped by aircraft. Steel melts 1000 degrees hotter than jet fuel.

First off, light a match in a big room..does the room get hotter? Now light a match and cup your hands around it...hotter? Jet fuel burning in an enclosed area will create a lot more heat than jet fuel in an open air field. Secondly, the steel wouldn't even need to melt. Trying to apply common sense to the physics at play in a situation involving the internal decapitation of hundreds of tons of rock and steel several hundred feet up in the air is pretty insane. Is there a chance there was some kind of conspiracy at play...sure...but this idea that a 747 hitting the top of a building like that couldn't take it down is just stupid.

 

[jbombelli]

do you seriously have nothing better to do than to look at threads you think are stupid just so you can tell everyone how stupid you think they are? i wish i had that much spare time...

I take it you believe this bullcrap theory? Of course you do. This is your thread.

I won't post what I think of people who buy in to this extreme retardation.

 

[jamil]

I can't buy "had a hand in", real conspiracies never last unless everybody dies. People just like to talk too much. However, take advantage of after the fact? Oh yeah! Politicians (and their ilk) never let a perfectly good tragedy go to waste.

With how many rights we have lost, and how much power the .gov has gained from/since the attacks. I find it hard to believe the gov didnt have a hand in this. Hopefully im wrong as i hate to think they would do this for any reason

This sounds like confirmation bias. You make it sound like whatever inconsistencies you see only confirms what you already believed. I think that it was more a case of opportunism than architecture as Bummer pointed out.

They needed the Patriot Act. It's all about control. BHO ran for office telling us that he'd be different than Bush, but he actually does the same things. BHO wants a civilian force equal to our military in order to achieve the security objectives they've set. This is the same government that tried to limit the 2A with Fast & Furious, then they used the NSA, IRS, EPA, and other government agencies to punish their enemies. The senior republicans told us that Snowden was a traitor and the NSA is protecting us. Bush and Obama have signed executive orders prepping for martial law. The National Defense Resources Preparedness Order was signed March 16th. Obamacare will give them control over us more than the Patriot Act. I have mentioned this next one several times and I'll keep doing it until they come for us; The DHS has Evangelical Christians listed in the #1 spot on the terrorist watch list. It is even more strange if you consider that they mention if people believe in end-time prophesies, they could be terrorists. We don't bother anyone and if we are a bunch of nut-jobs, why not just leave us to our fantasies? They have an agenda and they won't stop.

I think we all understand human nature for its tendency, especially when mixed with power, to corrupt. For that reason, I strongly suspect that the government tends to be corrupt. Snowden's revelations provide some empirical evidence of that. This tendency, I suspect, is why you went off on BHO and Bush. It's one of those "it figures" kind of things that the government would cover up some things about 9/11.

But, and this is why I'm an agnostic, you don't know, until you know. I can suspect all I want. But that doesn't make any of the inconsistencies that tinfoil hat websites gen up or exploit, any more truth revealing than the official story.

In most cases the most likely thing happens. Although the government is most likely corrupt on some level, it is also too incompetent and filled with self serving individuals to pull off something this complex. Bush's administration wasn't all that much more competent than Obama's. Too many people to silence, too many disparate and flawed individual links in a chain that requires pristine fidelity for those kinds of secrets to remain secret.

In all the conspiracy theories I've heard or read about 9/11, more needs to be explained about the conspiracy theory than the conspiracy theory explains about the actual events. Grassy knolls are usually just random distractions from the truth. But to believe they're relevant, you must already believe whatever it is you think they prove.

For these reasons this thread deserves nomination for the INGO award of the year.

do you seriously have nothing better to do than to look at threads you think are stupid just so you can tell everyone how stupid you think they are? i wish i had that much spare time...

I'd guess, like most of us, he had nothing better to do than to read this thread, but I suspect it only took a few moments to roll his eyes and post what he posted. How long did it take you to read all these nutty websites you linked? Look. I know a good conspiracy can taste pretty darn good, but I'm trying to lay off the sweats.

 

[cosermann]

. . . Still, the towers weren't dropped by aircraft. Steel melts 1000 degrees hotter than jet fuel.

My dad's business suffered a fire back in '91 ish. Cinder block building with STEEL I-beams across the top forming a flat roof. Fire was contained to the back third of the building I'm guessing.

Here's the point - some of those steel roof I-beams had softened and were left drooping down like licorice. Yes, that part of the roof collapsed. Still remember it. I was kind of amazed a "regular" fire would do that, but it did.

The "steel melts 1000 degrees hotter than jet fuel," theory is simply nonsense.

All it took in the case cited above was simple, and fairly brief building fire.

Once the steel softens and things start to change shape the whole structural integrity of the building starts to go. Just talk to a firefighter who has even a modicum of experience.

 

[Bummer]

For these reasons this thread deserves nomination for the INGO award of the year.

Hey now, it did give me an opportunity to drift slightly off topic and show irrefutable proof of bigfoot caught on tape.

 

[aikidoka]

WTC7

WTC7 and Silverstein

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I think the last time this topic came up, it ran to about 4k posts. Don't think it got the tinfoil hat award that year, though.

 

[BigShow]

Here is the big problem I have with 9/11, and it is with flight 93. I can watch 2 NBS stations at my house, WTOV 9 out of Stubenville OH and WPXI ch11 out of Pittsburgh. On 9/11 I was recording ch 9 but would flip over to ch11 as they was showing a little bit different coverage. When ch9, which had Tom B and he said F93 went down in PA, I switched to ch11 and started watching. CH11 showed 3 interviews with people from the area where F93 went down. All 3 people stated they heard a loud explosion up in the air, when they looked up they seen a large ball of fire falling from the sky. Those interviews was not shown on the NBC feed on ch9, hence they are not on my recording, Tom B never makes mention of these interviews. Later on a Air Force big wig makes a statement that no airliners was shot down from fighter planes in U.S. Airspace. I do have this statement on tape. Now what I find interesting is that a AIM54 Phoenix air to air missile exclusive to the F14 Tomcat has enough range to be fired from outside US airspace and reach to where F93 crashed. I have never seen an explanation on why the 3 interviewees that say a ball of fire coming out of the sky at the F93 crash scene be explained, if F93 did hit the ground intact. Makes sense to me that the loud boom was the AIM54 hitting F93 and the fireball was F93 falling out of the sky. Also the F14s had not been retired yet as of 9/11.

 

[Brandon]

Then how do you explain the big crater in the field? It wouldn't of been nearly as big as it is had it been shot out of the sky, plus the debris field would be much larger then just an isolated crater.

 

[jamil]

I think the last time this topic came up, it ran to about 4k posts. Don't think it got the tinfoil hat award that year, though.

Did anyone nominate it?

 

[zippy23]

To completely dismiss this is not fair, there was no plane or video of any plane hitting the pentagon, the hole was tiny, nothing adds up to their explanation of the pentagon, so its only logical that something is going on that we dont know, and guided missles do look like planes, so its only fair to give that a chance and analyze it, do i believe it? i dunno, i sure dont believe the gov'ts explanation though.

 

[indiucky]

I can't buy "had a hand in", real conspiracies never last unless everybody dies. People just like to talk too much. However, take advantage of after the fact? Oh yeah! Politicians (and their ilk) never let a perfectly good tragedy go to waste.

That's what I love about the 9/11 Rosie O'Donnel/Charlie Sheens of the world....Bill Clinton couldn't keep an intimate act between himself, a cigar, and an intern a secret but the Rosie's of the world (What's her stance on Gun Control by the way? Is she right on that as well? Or is it just 9/11 that she got right?) would have us believe that thousands of people are involved in a conspiracy to help Dick Cheney and George W Bush's 401K's go up $100,000 in value....

 

[indiucky]

To completely dismiss this is not fair

Common sense and intelligence are not concerned about being "fair"...

 

[jamil]

To completely dismiss this is not fair, there was no plane or video of any plane hitting the pentagon, the hole was tiny, nothing adds up to their explanation of the pentagon, so its only logical that something is going on that we dont know, and guided missles do look like planes, so its only fair to give that a chance and analyze it, do i believe it? i dunno, i sure dont believe the gov'ts explanation though.

I'm not saying there's no reason to wonder about some inconsistencies or doubt parts of the official story. I AM saying there's no reason to believe that the most logical explanation for whatever inconsistencies there are is the least likely explanation for those inconsistencies.

 

[Birds Away]

To completely dismiss this is not fair, there was no plane or video of any plane hitting the pentagon, the hole was tiny, nothing adds up to their explanation of the pentagon, so its only logical that something is going on that we dont know, and guided missles do look like planes, so its only fair to give that a chance and analyze it, do i believe it? i dunno, i sure dont believe the gov'ts explanation though.

What guided missile on the planet could be confused for an airliner? That's hilarious.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

What guided missile on the planet could be confused for an airliner? That's hilarious.

The BOMARC from the 1950s; perhaps the Nike Hercules from the 50s and 60s; certainly nothing since then. Of course, not too many of them around anymore. The idea that an airliner at 500+ mph might not be able to do as much or more damage as a conventional missile is laughable, especially after millions of people watched the EXACT SAME THING HAPPEN to the Twin Towers. Prior to 2001, the Air Defense posture of the nation's capitol was nothing like what we see now; there wasn't a perceived threat to justify it. The Pentagon isn't a fortress and there's no reason to suppose that it would be any more resistant to such an attack than any other conventionally-constructed structure would be.

 

[Birds Away]

The "no plane" theory seems like the "no brain" theory.

 

[dirtfarmerz]

Common sense and intelligence are not concerned about being "fair"...

Can you ignore the testimony of the witnesses in the links that said there were explosions in the basements and lobbies of the World Trade Towers? Planes alone did not take down the buildings and no plane hit Building 7. The people in the links are, or were, witnesses to what happened. Ignore them if you want to, but it seems like common sense wouldn't let you do that.

Building 7 was not hit by a plane. There were a couple of fires around the 12th floor. Barry Jennings was in Bldg 7 when the lobby exploded. He said he was walking on dead bodies through the lobby. The official story told us nobody died in Bldg 7. Barry Jennings died two days before the official story came out. The only three building to come down in their own footprint, from fires, fell on the same day and within a city block of each other.
Barry Jennings - 9/11 Early Afternoon ABC7 Interview - YouTube
9/11 Key Witness Murdered? - YouTube

These firefighters and witnesses were there. They said there were explosions in the lower levels and lobby.
Firefighters For 9-11 Truth Explosion Witness - YouTube
9/11 - Explosion witness Compilation - YouTube
Firemen talking about 911 exploding wtc 7 ?? - YouTube
9/11: WTC basement explosion witness Phillip Morelli - YouTube
9/11 EyeWitnesses To WTC Lobby Explosion - NIST FOIA - YouTube

The guy in the first link was the last guy out of the towers. He said there were explosions in the basement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS8URT9anUE
Key 9/11 witness "commits suicide" - YouTube - This is the guy that killed himself. Witnesses often do that. He told us about explosions in the lower level.

 

[uberpeck]

Can you ignore the testimony of the witnesses in the links that said there were explosions in the basements and lobbies of the World Trade Towers? Planes alone did not take down the buildings and no plane hit Building 7. The people in the links are, or were, witnesses to what happened. Ignore them if you want to, but it seems like common sense wouldn't let you do that.

Building 7 was not hit by a plane. There were a couple of fires around the 12th floor. Barry Jennings was in Bldg 7 when the lobby exploded. He said he was walking on dead bodies through the lobby. The official story told us nobody died in Bldg 7. Barry Jennings died two days before the official story came out. The only three building to come down in their own footprint, from fires, fell on the same day and within a city block of each other.
Barry Jennings - 9/11 Early Afternoon ABC7 Interview - YouTube
9/11 Key Witness Murdered? - YouTube

These firefighters and witnesses were there. They said there were explosions in the lower levels and lobby.
Firefighters For 9-11 Truth Explosion Witness - YouTube
9/11 - Explosion witness Compilation - YouTube
Firemen talking about 911 exploding wtc 7 ?? - YouTube
9/11: WTC basement explosion witness Phillip Morelli - YouTube
9/11 EyeWitnesses To WTC Lobby Explosion - NIST FOIA - YouTube

The guy in the first link was the last guy out of the towers. He said there were explosions in the basement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS8URT9anUE
Key 9/11 witness "commits suicide" - YouTube - This is the guy that killed himself. Witnesses often do that. He told us about explosions in the lower level.

Logical arguments are not welcome here; now let's get back to how silly the no planes theory is and ignore your points.

 

[Brandon]

And do you think if you hit a tower with a plane, that the damage is going to me contained only to the area of impact? Really?