The Ferguson thread

[printcraft]

Fair enough. I understand losing words to frustration; Hell, the word, "Chimichanga" for a deep-fried burrito supposedly came from a grandmother in a kitchen dropping a burrito in the fryer and correcting herself mid-word due to her grandchildren being in the room! After I posted that, though, someone PMd me to the effect that some on here use words like thug or pimp or animal only because the rioters we see don't look just like them... in other words, they're using it as a term of prejudice. I really hope that's not the case here, for anyone (not speaking to you directly, CM, but to all.)

Personally, I prefer terms like criminal, miscreant, vandal, delinquent, perhaps even hooligan... you get the idea...until they threaten a life.

At that point, the only appropriate term to reference them would be "target".

YMMV. You don't have to use these terms... as I said, they're just my preference.

Blessings,
Bill

I like to respond to this as well..... openly and not via PM.
Whomever did PM you with that nonsense is a **** stirrer and probably the truly prejudiced among us.
It's an inside poke directly to a moderator......... putting that nugget in your head....... hoping to silence someone else that the PM'er doesn't agree with.
Why don' they just come out and say it in the thread instead of trying the back door government approach.
Now, I know you realize this already, so this response is directed for their viewing pleasure.

 

[Harleyrider_50]

?.....I kind'a like sh**-stain, m'self.........

 

[slowG]

At what point do the good people step in to help police?

 

[Cameramonkey]

I think animal applies.

What is the difference between humans and animals? The ability to reason. The ability to have empathy and do what is fair by taking others into consideration before taking action. To be able to live within the rules of society.

These looters and vandals are acting without regard for others. Just like a possum huddled over a carcas will hiss at other animals that try to share, these people don't care what kind of damage they are doing to their fellow citizens. The possum doesn't care his fellow woodland creature is starving, he just wants to eat and fill his own belly regardless of what his lack of sharing will do to the other.


The use of our advanced intelligence to act within the bounds of society is what makes us human. You stop using that intelligence and you act like an animal. The actions of these looters qualifies them for the animal moniker in my opinion. It has nothing to do with anything except ACTIONS. Anyone trying to say otherwise is being disengenuous or simply a troll.

 

[JTScribe]

The irony in my mind, of calling ill actors thugs or vandals is not so much that they're racist terms, but for Americans of African descent or the PC police to assume they're automatically talking about those of their ethnic background.

The Vandals were a Germanic tribe that terrorized Europe in the Byzantine Era. The etymology of the word 'thug' is from the Indian Thugee cult, and originated in the English language during the British Empire's occupation of the Indian subcontinent.

So no, if I call you a vandal or even a thug I'm not intimating something about race, unless of course you're of German or Indian descent. It's a reference to behaviors exhibited.

Personally speaking though, I prefer to compare people to ants or grasshoppers.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The irony in my mind, of calling ill actors thugs or vandals is not so much that they're racist terms, but for Americans of African descent or the PC police to assume they're automatically talking about those of their ethnic background.

The Vandals were a Germanic tribe that terrorized Europe in the Byzantine Era. The etymology of the word 'thug' is from the Indian Thugee cult, and originated in the English language during the British Empire's occupation of the Indian subcontinent.

So no, if I call you a vandal or even a thug I'm not intimating something about race, unless of course you're of German or Indian descent. It's a reference to behaviors exhibited.

Personally speaking though, I prefer to compare people to ants or grasshoppers.

The meaning of words change over time. I remember a teacher (she was old in the 80s) lecturing our class about the use of the word "gay," as she recalled how it "used to be such a pretty name for a girl." Or the word ghetto... which conjures images in all of our minds, but rare does anyone think of it, anymore, as an area populated by Jewish people.

 

[Doug]

I thought the accepted term for miscreants worthy of being considered targets was Goblin.

 

[Hkindiana]

The meaning of words change over time. I remember a teacher (she was old in the 80s) lecturing our class about the use of the word "gay," as she recalled how it "used to be such a pretty name for a girl." Or the word ghetto... which conjures images in all of our minds, but rare does anyone think of it, anymore, as an area populated by Jewish people.

Yeah, the Christmas carol line "Don we now our GAY apparel" has a TOTALLY different meaning today.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yeah, the Christmas carol line "Don we now our GAY apparel" has a TOTALLY different meaning today.

...I can assure you, I have nothing of the sort in my closet. lol

 

[Bill of Rights]

So what you're saying is some delicate little flower got their panties in a bunch , cried to you about how their feelings are so easily hurt by words and now animal , pimp and thug are the new "N" word and we shouldn't use them anymore , got it .

Never mind the fact that , how'd Que put it in another thread , " some of our community " routinely use pimp when referring to each other and more than a few brag about " livin dat life " , aka / thug life .

The ones out doing the looting are thugs and animals , they are not decent , moral people .

No, the person who contacted me is no "delicate flower", that person made a comment, in private, and its for that reason I removed the name. No hurt feelings were expressed, just a thought.

I like to respond to this as well..... openly and not via PM.
Whomever did PM you with that nonsense is a **** stirrer and probably the truly prejudiced among us.
It's an inside poke directly to a moderator......... putting that nugget in your head....... hoping to silence someone else that the PM'er doesn't agree with.
Why don' they just come out and say it in the thread instead of trying the back door government approach.
Now, I know you realize this already, so this response is directed for their viewing pleasure.

...and by the way, that thought was expressed between friends, and I was specifically told (after I'd posted it and before that person saw it) that they wanted nothing done about it. The choice was mine to make the thought public, as I agree with it. And if people want to call "delicate flower", "panties in a bunch", ****-stirrer, or any other pejorative, you have the right to do so, but know that, as I agree with the thought, you're saying it about me, too. And while my friend chose to keep comments between us, I have no problem telling you all it's what I think. SOME people using the terms are using them racially. You know it. I know it. Not everyone, of course. Now, to be clear, my first post on that term's use (where I talked about snakes and spiders) was meant in slight humor. The latter, less so. I'm still not putting on the mod hat here, so understand that your replies won't be addressed in any official capacity by me or at my direction. I will ask the rest of the mod team to monitor the thread, but any decisions as to peoples' comments will be someone else's.

Printcraft, I have to say I'm disappointed. I thought you were one of the people who knew well that if I'm going to make a decision to remove something, I make that decision in my own mind. Most of my friends, and most of the posting members, for that matter, know that you might point me to a thread, and you might tell me how awful you think something is, but the decision comes from between my ears, not based on something someone else thought or felt. I know the friend who messaged me with a comment knows that. If they'd wanted an official response, they'd have reported the post.

The meaning of words change over time. ... the word ghetto... which conjures images in all of our minds, but rare does anyone think of it, anymore, as an area populated by Jewish people.

Very true, Kut. I think it's fair to say that the Warsaw ghetto was probably not inhabited by anyone with dark skin. (reference is only to the images you described)

Now... let's put this convo about terms and semantics away. There's enough fighting going on in and about Ferguson... we don't need it on INGO too.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Kutnupe14]

I thought the accepted term for miscreants worthy of being considered targets was Goblin.

I dislike the use of the word "animal," because it's dehumanizing. Whether you like it or not, when you dehumanize a person, it much easier to dislike, discriminate, or even kill that person... all under the umbrella of "well, they're animals, not human." I'm a realist, I understand people have preconceived notions about people, in regards to race, religion, creed, and a variety of other things. We ALL do it, but be wary of how powerful words are when describing people. Because depending on how they are used, you may stop seeing people, as "people."
(insert Godwin's Law reference)

 

[Cameramonkey]

When did INGO get so damned PC?

 

[churchmouse]

I dislike the use of the word "animal," because it's dehumanizing. Whether you like it or not, when you dehumanize a person, it much easier to dislike, discriminate, or even kill that person... all under the umbrella of "well, they're animals, not human." I'm a realist, I understand people have preconceived notions about people, in regards to race, religion, creed, and a variety of other things. We ALL do it, but be wary of how powerful words are when describing people. Because depending on how they are used, you may stop seeing people, as "people."
(insert Godwin's Law reference)

This is true but to a point. When you see a group of people acting in the manner we have seen on the tube, it is very hard to not categorize that behavior. It is hard to put into terms that are not offensive even though the very site of that behavior is seriously offensive to myself and many many other right thinking people. Their actions are predatory. Somewhat akin to a wolf pack.

 

[Trigger Time]

We want justice we want justice bla bla bla
now since we didn't get our desired outcome that we consider justice, were gonna "burn this ***** down" and commit crimes to get mob rule justice.

the thought process of these people is un-****ing-believable!!! And that governor and the police chief and state police just bowed down to their threats and then actions.
any half wit person in this country knew what was gonna happen as soon as we knew what this "issue" was about. I think if anyone is biased it's the opposite of the police! They call a spade a spade and do their damn jobs while the other sides trouble makers don't even have legal jobs and constantly instigate! They have to make false claims of being wronged because not doing I would force them to take responsibility for their own actions. We know that's not gonna happen as this group is always blaming their troubles on others.
I think one day the working people in this country are gonna stand up and things are gonna get very ugly for the takers and whiners!

 

[CathyInBlue]

Humans are animals. We are the moral animal. We are the animal that invented morals, and we are the animal that must choose to act in a moral manner. Pets are animals, but they only operate in a quasi-moral manner due to their proximity to and socialization with humans. We anthropomorphize our pets. That does not make them moral creatures.

When a human being voluntarily lays down the mantle of morality and chooses to act in a manifestly immoral manner, especially when they do so en masse, it is only too appropriate to call them animals.

As to lethal force against thieves, I agree, it's beyond the pail, but realize these are not merely thieves. Thieves would be robbing the store one at a time and/or surreptitiously, like a bunch of sneaks, pick-pockets, and shoplifters. These are smash-and-grab burglars acting in concert. This is akin to the open insurrection that the Constitution warrants the use of military force to quell. A well placed bullet or two would end the lawlessness of the whole bunch, over and above mere protection of property.

 

[rhino]

I dislike the use of the word "animal," because it's dehumanizing. Whether you like it or not, when you dehumanize a person, it much easier to dislike, discriminate, or even kill that person... all under the umbrella of "well, they're animals, not human." I'm a realist, I understand people have preconceived notions about people, in regards to race, religion, creed, and a variety of other things. We ALL do it, but be wary of how powerful words are when describing people. Because depending on how they are used, you may stop seeing people, as "people."
(insert Godwin's Law reference)

Uh, that's the whole point for referring to people with such terms. They're behaving in ways that dehumanize themselves by their own actions. There is nothing inherently wrong with describing people who engage in extreme, dehumanizing behaviors using terms that explicitly reflect that. In fact, it's concise, correct, and communicates the message far more effectively than purposely rephrasing for the sole reason of avoiding potentially offending people who choose to project their own subtext.

 

[Dead Duck]

We had a rainy day for marching band in Jr High and I decided to play hangman on the board. I could do anything I wanted because I was in drumline and DRUMMERS RULE!
I picked a 3 letter word - "FAG" knowing nobody would dare guess it and they didn't. When I revealed the word, everyone just gasped except our band director, Mrs. [STRIKE]Wol*****[/STRIKE] Wolritch.

She was old and said "Why are you people acting this way? I've been smoking fags for years."

That's when we all completely lost it and the poor lady didn't have a clue as to why.




I miss the Jr. High mentality - that's probably why I love INGO so much.



**EDIT** - For those who don't know, don't get offended, a fag is a cigarette.






Oh well - What was this thread about?

Oh ya.
I like the term "Dirtbag" myself. It's not just international, it's intergalactic. It can be used on green criminals too.

 

[Kutnupe14]

When did INGO get so damned PC?

PC? Though the meaning is well known, I use "Persona Credibility" (ie, the persona I reflect, whether on-line, or not, is actually me). Most people that rail against PC, only disregard it in the company of friend or with the anonymousness of being on-line. However, they will become just as PC as anyone while in the company of strangers, or when face to face with people that don't share their views. Half the stuff I've read on INGO, I have never heard outside of the net. Why is that? ...Because people know when they should STFU. I'm tactful in what I say, because if I have a disagreement on-line with somebody, I want to be consistent in my stance and not get punched in the nose, rather than be a hypocrite and shirk.

 

[Trigger Time]

Also let it be said that these "targets" did put innocent lives in danger. They weren't just burnin and looting empty businesses and cars. Those building (some) sill had employees In them. Also they were throwing maltov cocktails, glass, metal, ammo, bottles, pee, bricks, and whatever else at the police and the media! (The media doesn't bother me. Ok it does but their idiots for being in the riots for no good reason). Also there was some pretty heavy gunfire leveled at the police (to which they didn't return fire because their roe were all ****ed up by the brass obviously!). And also pot ****s were taken at the police.
so yeah I think the term animals fits perfectly. Target works too because if I was a business owner or customer it would have killed every person that I could that was trying to enter my building.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Humans are animals. We are the moral animal. We are the animal that invented morals, and we are the animal that must choose to act in a moral manner. Pets are animals, but they only operate in a quasi-moral manner due to their proximity to and socialization with humans. We anthropomorphize our pets. That does not make them moral creatures.

When a human being voluntarily lays down the mantle of morality and chooses to act in a manifestly immoral manner, especially when they do so en masse, it is only too appropriate to call them animals.

As to lethal force against thieves, I agree, it's beyond the pail, but realize these are not merely thieves. Thieves would be robbing the store one at a time and/or surreptitiously, like a bunch of sneaks, pick-pockets, and shoplifters. These are smash-and-grab burglars acting in concert. This is akin to the open insurrection that the Constitution warrants the use of military force to quell. A well placed bullet or two would end the lawlessness of the whole bunch, over and above mere protection of property.

Yes, humans are animals. 100% animals. So begs the question, are you speaking positively of "animals," of which you are one of also, or negatively of them? Would you be ok, if you (who as far as I have known is a good person) were referred to as an animal? If you are ok with it, then what's the point of referring to the bad people in Ferguson as being from the same group as you? If you are not ok with it, are you disregarding the fact that you are an animal yourself? If you have an issue with those person's morals, then call them immoral persons, not an animal. By referring to people as animals, you are allowing them a pass, as if they don't know better. By making them retain their humanity, you are acknowledging their culpability in the crime they committed... crimes which they should be held accountable for.
If an animal mauls a man in the forest to protect its territory, it's hard to place blame on it, because it is an animal. But if man purposefully injures another without just cause they are 100% to blame..... because humans should know better.