The ethics of a 161-2 girls basketball game

[CountryBoy19]

I don't think it's fair to the starters to miss almost a whole game simply because of how bad the other team is,

Why not? Would it also not be fair to the bench warmers that they have to miss an entire game against a good team simply because the starters are better than them?

IMHO, it's opportunities like this that offer great chances for you to better the bench warmers by putting them in a real game and give them some full-time play. Often times when you just slip 1 or 2 of them into a big game they don't get a good chance at play because they become the "player of last resort" that the starters won't pass to unless it's their only option etc. Put all the bench warmers in and they are all on an equal playing field and get a chance to really improve themselves in a real game.


I can recall a high-school football game that went like this (actually 2 of them). #1 Ever few years our athletic conference would play a game in the Dome in Indy, it was a big deal. Our conference, at that time, was only 7 teams so we invited another team to join and there would be 4 games in 1 day, all of them conference games except for the 1 team that played the outside invitee. I have no clue who chose the invitee, and I won't mention their name, but this particular year they were pretty bad and we drew their name, we were really good. We started the game off with our starters, it was soon apparent that the JV team could get some real play time in so the JV team went in. It was still clear that they weren't going to stop our JV team either, so in went the freshman team... the freshmen still managed to stop their offense consistently and even score a few touchdowns. Probably embarrassing for them either way, but over a decade later and the only thing that really sticks out is the score on a piece of paper, and it would have been a LOT worse had we kept the varsity team playing for the whole game... #2 Incident was a sectional championship. We were always a strong FB team (we had won over 50% of sectional championships in the last 30 years at this point) and this other team had a few times they gave us a run for the money, but this year wasn't one of them. We were pounding them in the first half and for the first time ever in my coaches history, he had another coach ask him for a running clock the entire second half. It had to be embarrassing to do that, but his team was beat up, tired, and had given up. It was the right thing to do to let them have what they wanted, but the coach turned it into a teaching opportunity as well and asked us (the entire team) if we would be ok with it because he didn't want to put the other team's desires above ours. I don't think there were any dissenters that wanted a normal clock, we agreed that if they want a running clock they can have it.

 

[KittySlayer]

Ethics/morals/whatever lies with the coach of the losers. If the score is becoming humiliating it is up to him to forfeit, not the winning coach to let them catch up. Competitive sports will always have a loser.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

If you're going to organize as a team, decide to play to win. If you're playing out of your league, find the right league. We don't put a little league team against a middle school team or an HS team for a reason. The players and teams get better as they mature. However, some people just never have the talent. I know I don't. That's where you play for fun if you're so inclined. I think it's wrong to cut down a good team just because they're better than another team. More likely, the other team should reconsider the league they're playing in.

 

[ViperJock]

Put the bench in. That's all I would say. Tell your team to focus on fundamentals --like a practice. Lots of passing before shots. I would not tell them not to play hard. That teaches the wrong lessons to both teams.

A pet peeve of mine is why do people always expect the winning team to quit? If the losing team is tired, let them quit. The coach could quietly ask the ref to call the game. But no, they always want the winning team to start playing poorly. It's funny that the same people will always add: it's not winning that matters. Huh, well if that's true, then losing shouldn't matter either.

my senior year in HS the team that won 4A state football beat us 45-7. But the game wasn't that close. They were bigger and faster. We looked like middle school vs varsity. But we played hard and never expected them to give us an inch. It was a great experience in never quitting. We got stronger and went 8-2 as the smallest school in our conference.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I coached Little League Baseball (from first year coach-pitch to 12 year-olds) for a lot of years (8??) 161-2 is completely ridiculous. The quarters are how many minutes? (Actual question, I don't know) and they scored more points than an NBA All-Star game that has a lot more clock time?


I must've not been a real great coach since it was rare we were ahead by enough runs to take the foot off the gas peddle. On those rare occasions: don't be as aggressive sending runners, hold them at first instead of sending them to 2nd. Don't send them home on a passed ball. Get your bench in the game early and let that kid who's always bugging you to pitch (but really can't) take the mound for a while.

 

[hoosierdoc]

We played a terrible soccer team one time. We had to have each player on our team touch the ball between each shot on goal. It became keep away and no fun for anyone. Also had a game we were only allowed to score by a header.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

They suspended the coach of the winning team for winning too much?

There are rules to the game, they are in the rule book. The morality of the game is contained in those rules. This is beyond sad. Where did my country go?

 

[BFP]

A couple of things you guys should know, and since this is out of state, obviously IHSAA rules would not apply, however in Indiana:
1. It's typical to play JV then V games. Players are limited to 5 quarters a night. So if you played 4 quarters in the JV game, you're only allowed 1 quarter in the V. This could limit the coach's ability to sub.
2. I've been involved in high school sports nearly 40 years as a player, coach, and official. I see nothing wrong ethically with playing "your game" in the first half. In this instance, I do have an issue with the press being up that big in the 2nd quarter.
3. Once you start subbing in non-starters or JV players, it's not fair to tell them not to play hard and execute. They put their time in at practice too. As coaches we work too hard to get the most out of our kids and get them to play hard. At that point, if you can't stop the subs/JV players, get better or get used to it.
4. The AD's really need to look at their scheduling policies. Should this game have been played to begin with?

I was involved as an official in a 98-24 Football game 10-15 years ago. The Indiana Football board lit up with cries of running the score up, and crying foul, and all that jazz. The winners in this case did not run the score up in my opinion. I felt like quite the opposite, I felt like the final score was more the fault of the losing team. They wouldn't agree to a running clock, the tried to conserve time late in the game to score again that ended up biting them in the ass, as the winners picked up a fumble and returned it 90+ yards for another score. The winners were playing freshmen pretty much all of the second half.

I hesitate to jump on the winners in this case without knowing all of the facts of the game. Are there coaches around who will do this sort of thing, you bet. Is it unethical to do it intentionally, absolutely. Bloomington South girls were accused of doing something similar a couple of years back with Arlington, something like 107-2. It made national headlines. But knowing the situation, I don't think there was anything that could have been done to prevent the final outcome. Coach Winters took a ton of heat over it, not necessarily deserved.

 

[MCgrease08]

I refereed a youth hockey tournament a few years back and a team from Bloomington came up to Indy and lost their first game 26-0. You stop putting the goals on the scoreboard if the difference of more than 5, but they still get recorded on the scoresheet. The score keeper ran out of slots and had to start a new page.

We got the same bad team in the afternoon and the route was on again. After it got to be about 15-0 I told the losing coach we'd be going to a running clock.

He didn't want to do it because he said, "we pay for the ice time just like another team and we want our full time." At that level each game gets an hour slot since there are usually 8-10 games per day.

I told him, "coach we're running the clock so we can get through the game. At this rate your kids will only get to play 2 periods because we have to keep stopping the clock to retrieve the puck out of your net."

I think they lost that game 31-0.

 

[BFP]

The game in my example was a high school varsity game, actually a sectional semi final game, if the coach doesn't agree, we can't alter the clock. Youth games I agree I can and am a little quicker to take action myself.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

I am a new father of 2, but I am also not too far removed from my high school football days. We never had anything so lopsided, but we did have a game where the entire first string was pulled at halftime. our coaches simply told us to play fair, but still give it your all. Not every game will be close, and there has to be a loser. Sucks that they were so unevenly matched, but that isn't the winning teams fault. I would much rather get beat by 100 to a team that tries than by 50 to a team that was just playing keep-away.

 

[public servant]

 

[tmschuller]

I can understand the go to win but the sportsmanship factor was lost in this one.. with 4 kids in all kinds of sports and thru college now , no matter how you look at this the other coach was really pushing this one with that kind of score.. the mentality of sports is so far out of hand now.. this kinda proves it.. and no matter how good you say it makes you feel this lop sided score is ridiculous . Just not trying to make a big deal of this but the facts speak for themselves... my son is a high school football and baseball coach and would back me on this also.. teachable moments are important too and sportsmanship seems to get tossed in the back seat and the kill to win and walk over the dead is the only thing that matters.. look at the pathetic sunday night lights and the kids golfing reality shows.. nuff said.

 

[jbombelli]

If I was up by 159 points I'd try for 160.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Also, I have taken a fair number of shellackings in my day. I have been choked, tackled, had the ball held over my head by people feet taller than me, I have had the people I was guarding run the field backwards while taunting me that they could run faster backwards than I could forwards. I have had the **** just beat out of me at most any game I have played and I learned from every beating.

Taking a good beating is not so bad. Getting pity from your opponents to the point that they stop scoring on you because they are beating you too bad is horrible. I

I didn't learn much in college, but I did learn that when a black belt throws you so high that your heels skim the ceiling you don't get up and ***** about how it's not fair that they are so much better than you. You get up and you thank them for teaching you and you mean it.

 

[Lebowski]

I don't really see what the big deal is... I mean, if I was the winning team I'd be interested in having as big of a blowout as possible. I'd want to have that record and that story. "We beat another team by 159 points in 2015, no other team in the history of our school has had such a huge winning",


The coach DID put in his bench players, and his bench players were good too. The article said one of his bench players hit 8 out 9 three point shots.

I can understand that it may be humiliating to the other team, I get that, I understand... but it's a competition, it's sports. If they wanted to end the misery early the option is available via forfeit, otherwise the winning team has an interest in all the players setting their own personal records. I bet the girl who is normally a bench player will never be able to say again that she scored EIGHT 3 point shots during a game. That's impressive. I'm sure there are other players on the winning team who beat their personal records for points during a game, etc. Even if it wasn't much of a challenge, it's still something noteworthy.

 

[public servant]

Life is hard. Wear a helmet.

 

[Que]

I'm sure the kids will learn a LOT from this lesson! Do your job too well, you could be suspended.

California girls high school basketball coach suspended two games after 161-2 win - ESPN Los Angeles

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Most of what has been suggested in this thread was done during the game. Bench players the entire second half. The winning coach asked for a running clock after the first half, but it wasn't put into effect until the 4th quarter, no idea if the refs chose not to or if the other coach didn't agree. Passing game until 7 seconds or less were on the shot clock. The losing teams coach said that the winners ran a full court press for the entire first half, that could have been scaled back a bit after they saw just how bad the other team was though. Oh and the losing coach complained about that also, said they did a half-court trap in the second half. The winning coach also met with the losing coach before the game and told him that he wanted to run his normal offense for at least a half because it was the final tune up game before the league game started, which would explain the full court press for the 1st half.

It sounds like it was just a very very mismatched game. The winners had four previous games with a 70 or more point spread and the losers had a game where they had lost by over 90. Heck the coaches 19 yr old son coached the 1st game of his suspension and they won 80-19, are they going to suspend his son too? Perhaps the losing team could try playing middle school or if that doesn't work grade school........

 

[jd4320t]

Every kid doesn't deserve a trophy and no team should be judged for whooping some ass. I guarantee there have been a lot more kids with hurt feelings from a good game lost than a complete blowout.