The Democrat Primary Race Is Filling Up

[Tombs]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/11/22/barack-obama-conservative/
Barack Obama, conservative


This is how far the Dems have shifted.

I'm not sure I'd say obama really pushed his personal beliefs in his politics all that much in office. He was dramatically further left, especially economically, than the policies he approved.

And I'm about 99% certain the reason he didn't push his economic ideology was because he didn't want to lose popularity with people. He was the kind of president that gets elected then just plays pretend celebrity and doesn't really do much of anything.

Things really haven't shifted, the center of the political isle has just disappeared.

I think obama's biggest failing was the people he surrounded himself with. He chose some absolutely despicable people, like holder and company.

 

[actaeon277]

So, which Obama is he talking about. It sure as heck can't be the one who was president from '08 to '16

Compare to the people on the stage in the debates now.

 

[jamil]

So, which Obama is he talking about. It sure as heck can't be the one who was president from '08 to '16

If you're WaPo all you have to do is say the words to make them true. This is all about shifting perspective. From my perspective in 2008 and through his 2 terms, Obama was far left of me, but not as far left as he could have been. Now, it seems there is a lot of distance between Obama and as left as he could be. From the perspective of the media, whose collective 0bamagasm after 2008 was very evident, to be progressive now, one must fully embrace sweeping change to the left or one is conservative.

I graph it out this way:

|-------------B-----I---------0---------|

B=GWB
0=0bama

The lower and upper limits represent the political extremes of what could be acceptable to a sizeable enough proportionality of the electorate, the I represents the center. Obama campaigned on moderation, but his inaugural speech placed him firmly in the mainstream left at the time in my estimation. Back then, there were no social justice warriors anywhere other than some fringe faculty on elite college campuses. They would be to the left of the last dash on spectrum above. A sense of traditional liberal values was still within the limits of mainstream left (individualism, personal responsibility, liberty/freedom).

The spectrum has stretched over the last decade. The right has gotten "righter", but the left has gotten crazy lefter as depicted below.

|------------------B---------------0-I------------------S---W-----------A---|

S=Sanders
W=Warren
A=AOC

So now the extents to which one could be right or left have stretched out. The far right has extended into identity politics/right wing collectivism, such that it is closer to mainstream, but still not mainstream. The mainstream right is still primarily individualist.

The far left has extended out so far left that identity politics, postmodernism and socialism, have moved into mainstream. Communism isn't yet mainstream, but given the mainstream left's tacit fondness of marxism, I'd say that would be in the mainstream within 5 years if things keep going the way they are. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are now mainstream left. I put AOC near the fringe of the mainstream left because she doesn't appear to limit her sense of how far left is too far.

So, yes, according to the new spectrum, one could argue that in relative terms, Obama is right of center, because the center was stretched far beyond him politically. To the mainstream right, Obama is still pretty far left of them. The center line now seems to mark a new line of distinction, which seems to me, you either accept postmodernism or you don't. Obama doesn't seem to, at least not to an extent that makes him comrades with the postmodern left. I mean, the nerve of him scolding the woke-scolds.

The funniest thing about it is, Alpo is now a conservative on this new spectrum. Compared with the mainstream left, he's practically a capitalist!

 

[jamil]

I'm not sure I'd say obama really pushed his personal beliefs in his politics all that much in office. He was dramatically further left, especially economically, than the policies he approved.

And I'm about 99% certain the reason he didn't push his economic ideology was because he didn't want to lose popularity with people. He was the kind of president that gets elected then just plays pretend celebrity and doesn't really do much of anything.

Things really haven't shifted, the center of the political isle has just disappeared.

I think obama's biggest failing was the people he surrounded himself with. He chose some absolutely despicable people, like holder and company.

I don't think Obama was a socialist. <gasp!/>

He was pretty far left at the time. I think he understood the Overton window very well though. He tried to push his policies towards the furthest left extremities of the window during his terms. As I said above, Obama hasn't really shown a postmodernist ideology. I think that's the new line. That's what makes him a conservative now even though his ideas were clearly far left for the time, and they're still far left to most of us here.

 

[Dead Duck]

I'm just here for the graphs.

 

[Phase2]

The spectrum has stretched over the last decade. The right has gotten "righter", but the left has gotten crazy lefter as depicted below.

|------------------B---------------0-I------------------S---W-----------A---|

S=Sanders
W=Warren
A=AOC

This is only true if you allow WaPo to define conservatism for you. If not, then the current spectrum really is:

|------------------B-----I----------0-------------------S---W-----------A---|

B=GWB
0=0bama
S=Sanders
W=Warren
A=AOC

 

[Alpo]

The funniest thing about it is, Alpo is now a conservative on this new spectrum. Compared with the mainstream left, he's practically a capitalist!

I probably fall in the center of your scale. I don't know if Obama made some of the financial decisions because he was afraid of the banks or just ignorant. Letting Goldman Sachs run the country's treasury in light of the 2008 disaster probably wasn't the brightest idea.

 

[jamil]

This is only true if you allow WaPo to define conservatism for you. If not, then the current spectrum really is:

|------------------B-----I----------0-------------------S---W-----------A---|

B=GWB
0=0bama
S=Sanders
W=Warren
A=AOC

No, this is true because it's a measurement half way between the extremes. The I isn't the average, it's the median.

 

[jamil]

I probably fall in the center of your scale. I don't know if Obama made some of the financial decisions because he was afraid of the banks or just ignorant. Letting Goldman Sachs run the country's treasury in light of the 2008 disaster probably wasn't the brightest idea.

I think Obama became fond of Big Money while in office. He got real crotch-nuzzly with them in the 2nd term especially. Again though, I think what puts you and Obama right of the center line is that neither of you are postmodern enough. It seems to me you're a traditional liberal, and not really all that progressive. Obama, more progressive, but it seems he had limits.

 

[Phase2]

No, this is true because it's a measurement half way between the extremes. The I isn't the average, it's the median.

WaPo has mid-defined the median of the current political spectrum as the dividing line between conservative and liberal/progressive. That "median" is what WaPo is using to define Obama as a conservative, but conservatism is not "anyone to the left of the median". It is a belief in a set of values. Bush and Obama were not placed at the extremes because neither were extreme adherents to Conservative/Progressive values. Progressives have pushed the left (not sure why you reversed the chart) far out. A far better rendering would be:

|---A------------W---S---------Ľ-------0------------I-----B------------------|

Those in the new left comprise the totalitarian leftists (aka Progressives) and I would argue that Obama was much closer to it in belief than what he was able to actually achieve. AOC, Sanders and Warren would also be much closer to Obama if they were judged on what they might be able to achieve as president instead of what they promise when they have no power to actually implement it.

 

[KLB]

I still find it funny when people try to fit political ideologies onto a line.

 

[Leadeye]

I would imagine that time in dc changes everybody, being around a staggering amount of money has an affect on people. Sadly, most of the money being spent there is for the purpose of stealing your money.

Always follow the money

 

[Doug]

Just remember, there is very little democratic about the Democrat party. The candidate will be selected by the party leadership and voted in by the Super Delegates; just like last time.

 

[Leadeye]

I wonder what the price tag is on a super delegate vote?

 

[T.Lex]

I wonder what the price tag is on a super delegate vote?

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

 

[BugI02]

I probably fall in the center of your scale. I don't know if Obama made some of the financial decisions because he was afraid of the banks or just ignorant. Letting Goldman Sachs run the country's treasury in light of the 2008 disaster probably wasn't the brightest idea.

I always thought Obama and Bernanke went with the strategy they did because they had only one real data point to extrapolate from, that Hoover's implementation of austerity made things worse. I really think they were staring at the abyss and fearful a wrong move would precipitate Great Depression 2.0 and the Great Recession was the softest landing they could devise on the fly

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm not sure I'd say obama really pushed his personal beliefs in his politics all that much in office. He was dramatically further left, especially economically, than the policies he approved.

And I'm about 99% certain the reason he didn't push his economic ideology was because he didn't want to lose popularity with people. He was the kind of president that gets elected then just plays pretend celebrity and doesn't really do much of anything.

Things really haven't shifted, the center of the political isle has just disappeared.

I think obama's biggest failing was the people he surrounded himself with. He chose some absolutely despicable people, like holder and company.

Do I have to ask? I will, but I suspect you already know what I want to hear. So?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just remember, there is very little democratic about the Democrat party. The candidate will be selected by the party leadership and voted in by the Super Delegates; just like last time.

So essentially like a general presidental election?

 

[Alpo]

I always thought Obama and Bernanke went with the strategy they did because they had only one real data point to extrapolate from, that Hoover's implementation of austerity made things worse. I really think they were staring at the abyss and fearful a wrong move would precipitate Great Depression 2.0 and the Great Recession was the softest landing they could devise on the fly

I haven't read 'The Courage to Act". Perhaps this winter. Clearly, the Keynesian aspects of their plans worked. If I had any objection to this aspect it would be the length of time that workers were provided subsidies. People get too comfortable not working to attempt to remedy their problems.

The banksters should have been punished and imprisoned. Yes, it is retribution and I think morally justified in the circumstances. I would have separated investment firms from banking and re-imposed much of Glass-Steagall as well.

 

[BugI02]

Agreed. I think once the firehose of gov't cash was turned on the problem and things showed signs of stabilizing, my rather low opinion of politicians leads me to believe they began to contemplate what else they might accomplish in their own interests with so much money

Edit: Could only agree with draconian punishment if it was comprehensive and included the investment ratings agencies who bowed to pressure and rated the securities investment grade and the loan originators who relaxed standards again and again because after they sold those mortgages packaged as securities they believed it was someone elses problem

We would need bigger jails, and would spend an eye-opening amount of time and treasure on such prosecutions though