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The [Current Year] General Political/Salma Hayek discussion thread, part 4!!!
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Why do the insane left want to kill babies so bad?
The short answer is they don't, but they want to keep the option open should the "need" arise.
This is manufactured outrage intended to rile a very specific audience. The truth (so far as I can suss out) is much more mundane, and seems to be part of the natural back-and-forth that occurs when complicated and controversial topics become politicized and forced into an all-or-nothing binary. When one side of the coin has power they install barricades in the paths of those they oppose. When the coin is flipped those barricades get cleared. Rinse and repeat.
The less ideological and more pragmatic liberals view abortion in quite practical terms, and always from the eyes of the pregnant woman. To them, there will always be a certain number of women who will seek to end their pregnancies before live birth, and available records indicate that the vast majority of women seek to end the pregnancy very early on...within the first few weeks. At that time a pregnant women can often, under proper medical supervision, be administered carefully-dosed hormones that will effectively trigger a miscarriage...not unlike how 15-20% of recognized pregnancies will already end naturally. To this subset of liberals there is more harm in pushing these women into the black market for abortion services than there is in keeping the (rather unsavory, to many) act legal and under medical purview. To them, the cost in potential live births is far outweighed by the savings in lives of young women. You aren't going to get these people to accept the idea that taking a pill to cause a miscarriage is literal murder as anything approaching reasonable or practical.
But I don't think you're referring to those liberals at all.
The more ideologically and less pragmatic-minded liberals see things in rather more stark terms. To these people the right to end a pregnancy is an absolute...that no woman owes her child safe passage or a live birth. Due to the stakes involved her full and ongoing consent is required, and she must be free to remove it at any time. The logical conclusion is support for late-term abortion...if that is the ultimate decision of the "mother".
I think it's important to note that very few pregnancies end this way. The idea of carrying a healthy pregnancy to within a couple weeks of term and then choosing to "end" it - and all that entails - is (in my opinion) rightfully disgusting to any human being with a modicum of empathy. Even those of us who recognize this as ideological necessity viscerally recoil at the thought of it in practical use.
I don't want to kill babies. I do value liberty and self-determination deeply, though, and I don't believe that allowing the government to compel - by force - a pregnant woman to carry a pregnancy to term against her will is compatible with those values.
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61M dead babies since Roe vs. Wade isn't a "need". It is a choice. It is also 3.5x the number killed as part of the Nazi Holocaust. Own it.
61M "dead babies" since roe v wade? How many before? How many mothers died in botched abortion attempts along the way? How many have since?
Roe v Wade saves the lives of women. Full stop.
It does so, however, at the cost of their own unborn children...unwanted as they may be...and I have no qualms with that, ideologically or pragmatically. It is the place of the pregnant woman seeking to abort that must comprehend and endure the consequences of her actions, not mine. It is up to her to square her behaviors with her own conscience...and that's setting aside any religious implications that may apply. People have abortions whether the procedure is legal or not...where medically-supervised abortion is legally available fewer women die in the process. This is an irrefutable fact.
You can be as outraged as you want...and in a truly free society nobody else has the right to compel you to act otherwise...
...well, in a truly free society you have no right to compel anyone else to behave the way you want, either. Freedom isn't free, to borrow an old cliche.
Summarized- PaulF: 61M dead is an acceptable cost to allow women who *choose* to eliminate babies whether or not the life of the woman is at risk. Freedom isn't free.
So PaulF. How many were choices vs. how many were to save the lives of women? Have those stats anywhere?
Let me be clear...I don't care. Even if the number of "choice" abortions were 100%...I just don't care. The reasons those women chose to abort are theirs alone...those pregnancies didn't involve me, and I have no stake in their outcome. I'd love to have a conversation with you about living in a world where millions of women believe it is a better option to abort their pregnancy than carry it to term, what changes could be made to such a world, and how to effect them...but that's a completely different conversation.
As long as women are choosing to end their pregnancies - for whatever reason - I will support their right to have the procedure done legally and under competent medical supervision.
Okay...from my perspective I have tried to illustrate a reasoned and reasonable position in a sincere and non-inflammatory way...and I thought that was how this was being received.
If I'm way off course here I depend on people like you and Bug to tell me.
Why is a lock needed?
As much as I don't like it, Paul is correct.
Look at it this way, you don't want people telling you which guns you can or can not own, hell if you can even own them.
What gives any one the right to tell a woman what to do with her body.
If you feel that strongly about abortion, get the law changed . Just like we try to get gun laws changed.
Again, I don't like abortion but, I don't have a say in any case that doesn't involve me.
Look at it this way, you don't want people telling you which guns you can or can not own, hell if you can even own them.
What gives any one the right to tell a woman what to do with her body.
If you feel that strongly about abortion, get the law changed . Just like we try to get gun laws changed.
Again, I don't like abortion but, I don't have a say in any case that doesn't involve me.
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