The [Current Year] General Political/Salma Hayek discussion thread, part 4!!!

[KLB]

BugI, I pretty solidly agree with all of this, but still feel that "announcing" the pull-out on a call with Erdogan was a huge mistake and horrible optics.



No, I don't think that is the case. It isn't the binary decision you present. I think (could be wrong) that baked into that analysis is the Powell Doctrine, "you break it, you own it", which in my opinion is ludicrous. if it is in America's interest for us to be engaged, then engage. The minute it is no longer in our interest, leave.

I do believe that the Kurds with a homeland would be in our long-term interest, but don't believe that we should be in the business of "creating" a Kurdistan. I could be very wrong on this and there might be folks far smarter than I who might see this as creating another India/Pakistan eternal feud.





IMO, Russia's game plan for ISIS was solely to use them and the anvil to the Russian/Syrian hammer on the anti-Assad rebels. Perhaps there was more, but I didn't see anything that led me to believe that taking on and eradicating ISIS was ever in their game plan.

They will not allow them to exist in Syria if they want their puppet in control.

Eradicating ISIS never seemed to be our goal either. In fact, I'm not really sure what the goal really was.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

They will not allow them to exist in Syria if they want their puppet in control.

Eradicating ISIS never seemed to be our goal either. In fact, I'm not really sure what the goal really was.

Early in Trump's administration, he allowed, and Mattis developed and implemented, new rules of engagement to eradicate ISIS anywhere in the region. Additionally, I recall that the announced tactics also changed from only "winning" battles with ISIS, to blocking them in place to kill them rather than allowing them to dissolve their units into the general populace so that units could then be reformed once out of danger.

ETA: Did a quick google, below is Mattis May 2017 announcing the changes, and the operative quote below:

... he directed a tactical shift from shoving ISIS out of safe locations in an attrition fight to surrounding the enemy in their strongholds so we can annihilate ISIS. The intent is to prevent the return home of escaped foreign fighters.

https://dod.defense.gov/News/Transc...g-by-secretary-mattis-general-dunford-and-sp/

 

[KLB]

Early in Trump's administration, he allowed, and Mattis developed and implemented, new rules of engagement to eradicate ISIS anywhere in the region. Additionally, I recall that the announced tactics also changed from only "winning" battles with ISIS, to blocking them in place to kill them rather than allowing them to dissolve their units into the general populace so that units could then be reformed once out of danger.

ETA: Did a quick google, below is Mattis May 2017 announcing the changes, and the operative quote below:



https://dod.defense.gov/News/Transc...g-by-secretary-mattis-general-dunford-and-sp/

Words. In order to do that we would have had to have a much larger presence there. Not to mention, we would have had to get rid of Assad, since he was fighting many of the groups we were supporting/using. With the Russians being there, all of that would have inevitably led to a much larger conflict.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Words. In order to do that we would have had to have a much larger presence there. Not to mention, we would have had to get rid of Assad, since he was fighting many of the groups we were supporting/using. With the Russians being there, all of that would have inevitably led to a much larger conflict.

More than "just" words. The RoE's were changed in material ways and were no longer micro-managed from DC and no longer one (both?) hands tied behind our backs. Also, our presence changed, increased from 3-500 to the current several thousand and were deployed and embedded differently.

Finally, these changes were decisively effective in all but annihilating SSIS in the region. It was a tide-change. My only quibble with the pull-out is that IMO it's slightly premature, ISIS is devastated but not annihilated, and the way the "news" was delivered.

I also have real concerns about abandoning our Kurdish allies, but agree with BugI, an autonomous Kurdistan is scope creep, and a different mission entirely. And, HUGELY so...

 

[Kutnupe14]

In the "about dang time" news, the president made a surprise trip to Iraq to see the troops!

Kut (approves)

 

[Phase2]

 

[Mongo59]

Now there is a random act from the Prez and his wife that really means something to me.

 

[actaeon277]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mel...mberland-boots-visiting-troops-221926377.html
Melania Trump gets mocked for wearing Timberland boots while visiting the troops



That's a critique?
Come on. They can't find anything better (or is it worse)

 

[nonobaddog]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mel...mberland-boots-visiting-troops-221926377.html
Melania Trump gets mocked for wearing Timberland boots while visiting the troops



That's a critique?
Come on. They can't find anything better (or is it worse)

That is just stupid ridiculous - - so pretty typical.

 

[jbombelli]

I've got a pair of Timberland boots too. Go ahead and mock me... See if I care.

 

[Kutnupe14]

False

Laura Bush, Afghanistan 2005

 

[Old Bear]

False

Laura Bush, Afghanistan 2005

She might not be the first, but she is absolutely the HOTEST!!!

 

[nonobaddog]

[h=1]Liberal billionaire apologizes for funding 'false flag' effort to link Kremlin to Republican in Alabama Senate race[/h]

Liberal Silicon Valley billionaire Reid Hoffman issued an apology on Wednesday for funding a group that falsely tried to give an impression the Russian government was supporting Alabama Republican Roy Moore in last year’s Senate election against now-Sen. Doug Jones.
Hoffman, the co-founder of LinkedIn, is one of Silicon Valley’s top donors to the Democratic campaigns and PACs. In the last election cycle he donated $7 million to Democratic groups, though his money also pours into non-traditional groups that aren’t mandated to report their funding and often operate in the shadows.

One such groups is American Engagement Technologies (AET), a firm run by former Obama appointee Mikey Dickerson, which received $750,000 from Hoffman and was part of the effort to falsely portray the Republican’s senate bid as being supported by the Kremlin.

Read the rest at https://www.foxnews.com/politics/li...-kremlin-to-republican-in-alabama-senate-race

 

[actaeon277]

Liberal billionaire apologizes for funding 'false flag' effort to link Kremlin to Republican in Alabama Senate race



Liberal Silicon Valley billionaire Reid Hoffman issued an apology on Wednesday for funding a group that falsely tried to give an impression the Russian government was supporting Alabama Republican Roy Moore in last year’s Senate election against now-Sen. Doug Jones.
Hoffman, the co-founder of LinkedIn, is one of Silicon Valley’s top donors to the Democratic campaigns and PACs. In the last election cycle he donated $7 million to Democratic groups, though his money also pours into non-traditional groups that aren’t mandated to report their funding and often operate in the shadows.

One such groups is American Engagement Technologies (AET), a firm run by former Obama appointee Mikey Dickerson, which received $750,000 from Hoffman and was part of the effort to falsely portray the Republican’s senate bid as being supported by the Kremlin.

Read the rest at https://www.foxnews.com/politics/li...-kremlin-to-republican-in-alabama-senate-race

I'd feel better, if he took out advertising in liberal news media to admit it.
In Fox news, they either won't hear/see it, or it'll be "fake" because it's Fox.

 

[nonobaddog]

I'd feel better, if he took out advertising in liberal news media to admit it.
In Fox news, they either won't hear/see it, or it'll be "fake" because it's Fox.

If it helps it was also in these places...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/reid-hoffman-alabama-election-disinformation.html

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...labama-race/I4LWcdqFax6Amue63idfON/story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...ing-group-behind-disinformation-alabama-race/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUjYDii4zAQ

https://news.google.com/stories/CAA...YmlCbmNtOTFjQ2dBUAE?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

 

[nonobaddog]

It always turns out when the dumocraps accuse somebody of something illegal they are already guilty of it themselves.

 

[actaeon277]

If it helps it was also in these places...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/reid-hoffman-alabama-election-disinformation.html

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...labama-race/I4LWcdqFax6Amue63idfON/story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...ing-group-behind-disinformation-alabama-race/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUjYDii4zAQ

https://news.google.com/stories/CAA...YmlCbmNtOTFjQ2dBUAE?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

It does.. a bit.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Liberal billionaire apologizes for funding 'false flag' effort to link Kremlin to Republican in Alabama Senate race



Liberal Silicon Valley billionaire Reid Hoffman issued an apology on Wednesday for funding a group that falsely tried to give an impression the Russian government was supporting Alabama Republican Roy Moore in last year’s Senate election against now-Sen. Doug Jones.
Hoffman, the co-founder of LinkedIn, is one of Silicon Valley’s top donors to the Democratic campaigns and PACs. In the last election cycle he donated $7 million to Democratic groups, though his money also pours into non-traditional groups that aren’t mandated to report their funding and often operate in the shadows.

One such groups is American Engagement Technologies (AET), a firm run by former Obama appointee Mikey Dickerson, which received $750,000 from Hoffman and was part of the effort to falsely portray the Republican’s senate bid as being supported by the Kremlin.

Read the rest at https://www.foxnews.com/politics/li...-kremlin-to-republican-in-alabama-senate-race

How is this not at least as egregious as a foreign government spreading falsehoods to influence elections? Mueller? Mueller? Mueller?

 

[T.Lex]

How is this not at least as egregious as a foreign government spreading falsehoods to influence elections? Mueller? Mueller? Mueller?

Because as a citizen/domestic company, we know we can enforce our laws against this kind of thing against him, or at least it is a political issue that can be handled domestically.

Foreign entities are, by nature, beyond our reach.

That's the policy "answer." It is not as "egregious" as foreign influence because this guy is one of us.

Having said that, it absolutely is worth an investigation to see if any wrongdoing occurred. It isn't against the law to lie (unless it is fraud/defamation or something). If this turns out to be a multi-million dollar unreported campaign donation, or an unregistered lobbying group, or some other campaign violation, then he should be held responsible.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Because as a citizen/domestic company, we know we can enforce our laws against this kind of thing against him, or at least it is a political issue that can be handled domestically.

Foreign entities are, by nature, beyond our reach.

That's the policy "answer." It is not as "egregious" as foreign influence because this guy is one of us.

Having said that, it absolutely is worth an investigation to see if any wrongdoing occurred. It isn't against the law to lie (unless it is fraud/defamation or something). If this turns out to be a multi-million dollar unreported campaign donation, or an unregistered lobbying group, or some other campaign violation, then he should be held responsible.

Foreign vs. domestic issue aside, it seems odd that paying someone money to make a candidate look bad (falsely) could be okay, but paying someone money to keep a candidate from looking bad is not. Two sides of the same coin it would seem to me. If Hoffman was Trump's buddy and had done this to a Democrat candidate, I'm betting he would have been in Mueller's crosshairs by now, and I doubt that a simple apology would've been enough to let him off the hook. I guess we'll have to see what comes of it, if anything.