The Boy Scouts, Hardcore or Hippies?

[thunderchicken]

I am an assistant scoutmaster with a troop on the east side of Indy. My brother is also an assistant and formerly the scoutmaster, A good friend of ours is the current scoutmaster. We are all three Eagle Scouts from this troop.When it's appropriate we expect the boys to toe the line, and when it's time to goof off ok. We have had parents take thier boys out of the troop because we won't drop the kids off at home after meetings or camp outs. We believe in traditional patrol camping, and letting the senior patrol leader run the meetings. We believe it's the boys troop, and support and instruct them as needed. Too often parents are affraid their baby is going to get hurt. We unfortunately have trouble finding and keeping boys in the troop. We are a small troop but are very active.

 

[r3126]

I am an assistant scoutmaster with a troop on the east side of Indy. My brother is also an assistant and formerly the scoutmaster, A good friend of ours is the current scoutmaster. We are all three Eagle Scouts from this troop.When it's appropriate we expect the boys to toe the line, and when it's time to goof off ok. We have had parents take thier boys out of the troop because we won't drop the kids off at home after meetings or camp outs. We believe in traditional patrol camping, and letting the senior patrol leader run the meetings. We believe it's the boys troop, and support and instruct them as needed. Too often parents are affraid their baby is going to get hurt. We unfortunately have trouble finding and keeping boys in the troop. We are a small troop but are very active.

Scouting as it is intended to be. Keep up the great work! Scouting isn't for everyone. It is not a mark on the parent's "scoreboard", it is a step toward manhood.

 

[Woodsman]

...We have had parents take thier boys out of the troop because we won't drop the kids off at home after meetings or camp outs. ...

That's a problem to be sure. If the parents can't pick up their own kids they are probably too busy to take an interest in what the kids are doing and that's just sad.

Getting hurt is have the fun of being a boy camping. No boo-boos = no learning.

 

[thunderchicken]

I'm clear on that. We do some stuff that most scout leaders wouldn't let their boys do. The troop favorite camp out is the "tough man". We take the boys on a winter camp out without tents. They are allowed to take a piece of plastic but are required to build their own shelter, and cook their food without traditional pots and pans. The only rule about the food they bring is no canned food. We teach them how to make cooking utinsils out of cardboard boxes,coffe cans, vines, cook on a lettuce leaf and how to cook an egg in an orange peel. It's a great way to get them to experience first hand how to make good lashings, build an emergency shelter and to think just outside the box. The adults even build their own shelter. As I said we do this in winter to give them another challenge to overcome. We usually spend several meetings working on lashings, shelter building, cooking and general survival skills. It's always a good time.

 

[Antelope08]

Scouts like any group has it good and bad. I am an adult volunteer in Scouts and work on the Pack/Troop, District and Council levels. Like most things in life you get out of it what you put into it. I volunteer countless hours becausr I believe in the program.

You can't change parents and that is not what the program is about. It is about instilling character and confidence in boys to help them become fine young men. Dealing with parents can be frustrating at the least but one has to remember that the program is about the boys, not the parents.

Is the Boys Scouts what it once was? no, things change. The core of Scouting still exist but it has changed with the times like everything else has. Change is not always bad, it is just different.

When I look back at my experiences in the Army in the early 1980's with starched fatigues and spit shined boots and compare it to today's Army of un-ironed ACUs and brown boots, it is different. Is that bad, no. It has changed with the times.

Change comes, we can't stop it. Scouts in the USA celebrates its 100th anniversary this year. Has Scouting changed over the last 100 years, you bet it has, and I think mostly for the better. It takes dedicated adult volunteers to stick with the program on the local level. It can be frustrating to dedicate time, effort and money and feel that its not working or appreciated. Like most things though, it is not worth the reward if getting there is easy.

I would like to thank those, past and present, that dedicate of themsleves to help young boys become men. Scouting is a great program and needs dedicated leaders now and in the future.

 

[Tactical Dave]

It's like the kid who sucks at football but gets mad when the coach does not play him much..... well the coach wants to win...... so does the school so does the team.

When I got into SAR a long time ago when I was younger my parents stayed out of it.. if I was a bum on a log then that was my choice..... when I was in cub scouts way before that they would help out with different things but again if I wanted to be a bum on a log then that was my choice.. They encouraged me to to good in both but tried to stay out of it.

Scout leaders don't get paid last I checked and have a real job and a family..... if something did not get done or has not got done then it is one thing to nicely ask about it.... it is another to think that their kid should be taken care of first.

To many parents have regrets in their life and try and re live it through their kids....

Id just be happy that my kid was not being mollested to be honest haha.

 

[antsi]

4 years ago, opening day of deer (gun) season, a huge mass of boy scouts invaded our family farm. Apparently they had permission to do a map reading exercise and a shooting merit badge on someone else's farm. Apparently none of the "grown ups" involved checked where they were supposed to be, or had any thought about sending boys into the woods (no blaze orange) and blazing away with rifles on opening day. It is a miracle someone wasn't shot. Apparently these kids were from a troop located in the city; I guess they just don't understand life in rural Indiana.

 

[SavageEagle]

OP: I completely understand your frustration. I'm an Eagle Scout myself and my father was my Scoutmaster. But that doesn't mean I got to slide by. I worked my butt off for every badge I got. If anything, I got scrutinized even more than the other kids. It's really a shame about troops these days. The sad thing is that city troops are just that. Baby sitters.

I was talking with a member here and she said her son was off to Boy Scout camp... then she had to pick him up. WTF??? They only stayed overnight Friday night. How stupid is that? I went to Old Ben SR in Petersburg. Even Cub Scouts stayed overnight. Sure, we had parents day. DAY being the operative term. And anyone's parents that DIDN'T show up were looked down upon unless they had REAL good reason not to.

It's not just scouts, it's the culture in general. My pet peeve is parents who sign their children up for sports teams and drop the child off and leave. I have several sisues with that:
1. What if something were to happen to your child?
2. What kind of message does that send to your child, that you don't care enough to hang around and watch?
3. Why did you have children if it's too much trouble to spend a little time with them in an activity that , hopefully, they do because they enjoy it?

QFT Sorry, but I'm outta rep guys.

This is a depressing thread.

I'm participating as a Cub Scout leader this year for the first time and will do my best to do my duty to help form fine, honorable young men.

If not me, who? If not now, when?

Wish me luck, fellas!

Since no one else will... GOOD LUCK!!!!

I am an assistant scoutmaster with a troop on the east side of Indy. My brother is also an assistant and formerly the scoutmaster, A good friend of ours is the current scoutmaster. We are all three Eagle Scouts from this troop.When it's appropriate we expect the boys to toe the line, and when it's time to goof off ok. We have had parents take thier boys out of the troop because we won't drop the kids off at home after meetings or camp outs. We believe in traditional patrol camping, and letting the senior patrol leader run the meetings. We believe it's the boys troop, and support and instruct them as needed. Too often parents are affraid their baby is going to get hurt. We unfortunately have trouble finding and keeping boys in the troop. We are a small troop but are very active.

^^^This was our troop. We were Troop 248 from Owensville. I was the first ever Eagle from that troop. My dad took it over from 4 Scouts and took it to 16 by the time I moved away. He did the same with the Cubs when I was a cub. 6 scouts to 32. And you know why? We were active. We did more outtings than any other troop in the district. Fund Raising was our specialty. Car washes, cookies, bake sales, gadgets and gizmos, anything we could do to raise money, we did it. We didn't have much, but what we did have was the very best. Each scout had their own stuff, but the troop had whatever they couldn't afford.

But we did stuff. The parents were encouraged to get involved. And they did. We had ceremonies for EVERYTHING. We had camp outs every month and in the summer, twice a month. We went to Philmont, NM before I moved away. We shot guns, we camped, we went canoeing, rock climbing, boating, swimming, hiking, Holiday World, we did every merit badge in the book. That's the key. Active active active.

4 years ago, opening day of deer (gun) season, a huge mass of boy scouts invaded our family farm. Apparently they had permission to do a map reading exercise and a shooting merit badge on someone else's farm. Apparently none of the "grown ups" involved checked where they were supposed to be, or had any thought about sending boys into the woods (no blaze orange) and blazing away with rifles on opening day. It is a miracle someone wasn't shot. Apparently these kids were from a troop located in the city; I guess they just don't understand life in rural Indiana.

City troops are scary. Not as in scary, but scary. I wouldn't go to Philmont with a city troop. No freaking way. Not unless they trained for 6 months prior. Even then.... We went to camp at Old Ben and a troop from Indy came down for a visit. You could hear their campsite across camp. Screaming, running, bug spray (they ruined 4 tents, CAMP tents, not theirs), music, screaming, music, did I say screaming? Oh yea, SCREAMING! They'd never in their lives seen a Daddy Long Legs. They left after 3 days. We were all sorta teary eyed...




I'd like to start up my own troop, but I'm not sure what all that would involve. There's already three in Plainfield, but I'm sure they're well rooted. None of them ever did much or I would have joined one of their troops when I moved up here. I was an Eagle then and not one of them had a Scout above First Class. I gave it up. I wish I hadn't.

to all those still Scouting! Stay strong and teach those willing to listen!

 

[thunderchicken]

Well put Savage Eagle. I am with Troop 483. I know we haven't always had the best of reputations from previous leaders. Our troop has always been a little tougher on the boys than some other troops. We believe that every boy scout can obtain the basic scout skills. We try not to coddle the boys when there's a job they struggle with or just don't want to do. We encourage them, and stress the importance of pulling their weight. We have never just pushed a boy through to Eagle. If they didn't earn it they don't deserve it. When I reached Life, it was a huge struggle to get through the eagle process. That's the closest I have ever been to my breaking point. As an inner city troop though, the boys that join too often aren't willing to stick it out. And, it's next to impossible to recruit new boys. Cub Scouts don't have that problem as bad, they still are allowed to recruit from schools. Boy Scouts has to get done by word of mouth more than anything. But, we will continue sharing both outdoor skills and experiences, and skills for life.

 

[Delmar]

It's not just scouts, it's the culture in general.

You saved me the trouble of typing that exact phrase! +1

 

[D.B.]

My Scouting experiance growing up was great! Thanks to my father and a few other great men! It was always apparent that our troop was different than the others when meeting at annual camps and meets. We were young men in training! We spent the night in southern Indiana caves, repelled the cliffs in Hoosier National, canoed Suger Creek, Skied the slopes in Mich. We washed cars and sold candy bars so the less fortunate could attend without shame. It is what you make it!

Eagle Scout Troop 510

 

[SavageEagle]

My Scouting experiance growing up was great! Thanks to my father and a few other great men! It was always apparent that our troop was different than the others when meeting at annual camps and meets. We were young men in training! We spent the night in southern Indiana caves, repelled the cliffs in Hoosier National, canoed Suger Creek, Skied the slopes in Mich. We washed cars and sold candy bars so the less fortunate could attend without shame. It is what you make it!

Eagle Scout Troop 510

Spending the night in caves followed by an underground boat ride... Weren't them clear spiders and frogs freaky looking?!?!?

We used to canoe on Blue River a lot. My best memories of scouts came from those trips...

 

[Gunpowder]

I am an assistant cubmaster and have dealt with eagle Scout projects with my job.
Eagle Scout Projects: A fancy word for community service since the 100 hour rule was removed.

As a leader your hands are tied: Age appropriate Guidelines list is now a joke. All the required training you have to do. Tour permits, etc. I am glad I am out after this year. Son may or may not go on to Boy scouts.

BTW, I droped out of cubscouts as a kid in the early 80's after 1 year. Each week the female cubmaster's agenda was to turn us loose to play euchre.

 

[DarkRose]

Had a co-worker that was very involved in Boy Scouts as an assistant Cub Scout leader then Assistant Boy Scout leader as his grandson moved up. From what he told me, things are WAY different from when I was in...

None of their scouts can attend meetings without a parent/guardian present (has it's pros and cons, parents stay involved, but some parents also dont have the time and could be doing stuff for the family like getting groceries or running errands).

On campouts, it was 1 adult volunteer for EVERY scout attending. REALLY? I remember campouts and summer camp with 1 scoutmaster, 2 assistants, and 8-15 boys...

If you're teaching a merit badge, you have to take an online test to become "certified" to do it. Seems ok, but when I was in, all the requirements and info were pretty clearly spelled out in the handbook. So if a scout wants a certain merit badge, and no one is certified, someone has to take the time for the test (and the online site didn't seem to work half the time, he did a lot of them on breaks at work) and become "certified".

A Video Game merit badge. WTF?

I have fond memories of summer camp... Midnight capture the flag in the woods, learning how to ignite ANYTHING (taught by my fellow scouts), the tying of a proper hangman's noose... Taking new scouts on the traditional Snipe Hunts... Grilling steaks at camp when we were supposed to be in the dining hall, chasing skunks out of camp because someone always had a huge cooler of real food stashed...
Basically running wild, but learning to take care of myself, be independant, and responsible overall. Isn't that what scouting was supposed to be about?

 

[E'villeGunner]

I agree that it all has to do with the parents staying involved with the young man. We (my 2 sons and I) were involved with Troop 335 in E'ville. Almost every dad was involved in one aspect or another in the Troop. Either as Ass't. Scoutmasters or on committees. I was a member of the Advancement committee starting out and eventually becoming Advancement Chairman, and finally becoming an Ass't. Scoutmaster. My oldest earned his Eagle, and my youngest left as a Life Scout who could have easily earned his Eagle but cars and girls got in the way. lol

I taught shooting merit badges, swimming, first aid, water skiing, and numerous others.

I would NEVER trade those experiences with my sons or all the other scouts for the world.


You, your son, get out of it what you put into it.

 

[E'villeGunner]

I hope this doesn't sound like a rant, but I would like to hear what some of you guys have to say about the Boy Scouts and see if your opinions are the same as mine. I was the Assistant Scoutmaster for a Troop for a year, and I couldn't take it anymore. I had to get out, to much BS. I'm pretty sure that BSA no longer stands for Boy Scouts of America and now stands for Baby Sitters Association. What happened, when i was in the scouts it was hardcore, and now, its just so not. It seems the Boy Scouts has become a mere shadow of its once former glory. And it all starts with...

THE PARENTS
What kind of parents are people(in general) becoming. How dare you drop your kid off at the meetings and then patronize me when it didn't cover the perticular merit badge your son has been wanting to do. Here is an idea, Spend some time with your own child and raise him into a man yourself, do not depend solely on the Boy Scouts to do this for you. I may not be part of the national office, but I don't think the Boy Scouts are there to raise your young men.
And please parents know that if a Scoutmaster yells at your child, its for a good reason. No scoutmaster would ever yell at a boy who didn't at least in part deserve it. If a Scoutmaster yells at your son for having his knife blade come within 3 inches of of another scouts head, and then takes a corner from his chip. Do not come to the next meeting telling anyone they should not have done that or saying it could have been handled differently, or the Scoutmaster could have pulled him aside later privately so as not to embarass him.
And if your son is in charge of making the nights campfire for dinner to be prepared on, and he can't do it within 2 hours with a flint and steel, please parents do not make the mistake of thinking its not your sons fault. There is not a Scoutmaster alive who has not spent hours showing your son how to build and start a fire from flint and steel repeatedly. It is not the Scoutmasters fault that when he asks "Are there any questions, did everyone understand how to do that, I would love to show you again," your son said yes i understand it and i could repeat it. Its also not the Scoutmasters fault that he didn't practice starting a fire at home like he should have, under your supervison, which you prolly never gave him.
I could go on and on with this. but now for the next reason, and god help you if you get a...

Liberal Person In Charge.
I am not calling out anyone from council, this is more of the adults that are on committies or in charge at all. But I must question why you would ever get involved in a troop if all you are gonna do is complain. If you think that campouts are getting to expensive, than organize a fund raiser. Do Not Depend on anyone doing this for you. Also don't take crap from parents about their scouts not being able to make the cookout after 4 weeks of advanced notice and then pass that crap along to me. Here is an idea, if the scout doesn't participate in the fund raiser, he shouldn't get any of the benifits from it either. To many other scouts bust their butts on fundraisers to see a scout that didn't participate get the benifits from it, what is that teaching our young men today?
And to the people on the Boards of Review, do not be afraid to tell a lazy scout that they have not earned rank because they have performed to usatisfactory levels. What you are doing by passing them along is no different that school children who can't read being passed along. Stop It. Again what is this showing the boys, its showing them they can half ass things and still get moved along. There is a reason that its called Earning rank not being Given rank. But they can't get to there Boards of Review without...

A Weak Minded Scoutmaster. This is not what i was, i was an Assistant Scoutmaster. But weak minded scoutmasters would rather be loved by all than to uphold the boy scout rules and traditions. This is what I really couldn't take. Dispite many of my times contacting the head of council about how to handle things and what to do, the Scoutmaster would do his own thing. he would give scoutmaster conferences before the rank time had been acheived, he would initial for the community service parts of rank when no community service had been given. And he would bend to the will of parents all the time. and he would make the Scout Law mean nothing. It was more of a popularity contest with him, and making the boys like scouts at all costs. Not every young man has what it takes to be a boy scout, there are rules and the Scout law,
A Scout is
trustworthy,
loyal,
helpful,
friendly,
courteous,
kind,
obedient,
cheerful,
thrifty,
brave,
clean, and
reverent.

And a scout is either all of these things or not a boy scout.
And the only reason that i didn't report any of this to council is that the scoutmaster is my best friend, i just didn't realize how much of a hippy he was.

I wonder if the Boy Scouts will ever turn back into the Organization it once was. And to a better point, how will the BSA get hardcore enough to make it seem like a cool organization again. Lets face it, it looses half its members in the middle school to high school transition. My thoughts on this, Add more Gun merit badges, that always keeps the kids attention.

I'm sorry for you experience in Scouting. Not ALL Troops are like that! If that Troop wasn't to your liking then there are others. Each Troop are run a little differently from the next.
Another idea is to stay involved in that Troop and try to help change it. Your post sounds like thats exactly what is needed for those young men.

 

[DarkRose]

I agree that it all has to do with the parents staying involved with the young man. We (my 2 sons and I) were involved with Troop 335 in E'ville. Almost every dad was involved in one aspect or another in the Troop. Either as Ass't. Scoutmasters or on committees. I was a member of the Advancement committee starting out and eventually becoming Advancement Chairman, and finally becoming an Ass't. Scoutmaster. My oldest earned his Eagle, and my youngest left as a Life Scout who could have easily earned his Eagle but cars and girls got in the way. lol

I taught shooting merit badges, swimming, first aid, water skiing, and numerous others.

I would NEVER trade those experiences with my sons or all the other scouts for the world.


You, your son, get out of it what you put into it.

Well, like I said, the fact that a parent had to be present has good and bad to it. My parents used that time to keep their sanity, and run other errands and get things done while I was being supervised, learning stuff, and having a good time with other boys my age.
However, my dad was involved in most areas of my life (still is, we hunt together, shoot together, plan my son's gun collection together, and he teaches me how to fix things I've never had to fix yet, the only change is he asks me about car problems now instead of the other way around), and helped me on my scout stuff at home (that I wanted help with), so he was involved whether he was at the meeting or not...
I'm just not sure mandating it was the right route to take...

 

[SavageEagle]

I agree that it all has to do with the parents staying involved with the young man. We (my 2 sons and I) were involved with Troop 335 in E'ville. Almost every dad was involved in one aspect or another in the Troop. Either as Ass't. Scoutmasters or on committees. I was a member of the Advancement committee starting out and eventually becoming Advancement Chairman, and finally becoming an Ass't. Scoutmaster. My oldest earned his Eagle, and my youngest left as a Life Scout who could have easily earned his Eagle but cars and girls got in the way. lol

I taught shooting merit badges, swimming, first aid, water skiing, and numerous others.

I would NEVER trade those experiences with my sons or all the other scouts for the world.


You, your son, get out of it what you put into it.

How long ago did you work at the E'ville Scout office? My mom worked there back in the mid 90's....

 

[sadclownwp]

Maybe if there was another troop i could help out i would get back into being an Assistant Scoutmaster. But i just can't pour my time into a troop where the boys are to lazy to practice things at home, and don't want to do fund raisers. I had so many fund raising ideas that were shot down by parents(i don't know if they thought there boys were to good to wash cars, or didn't want to sell brauts and snow cones on the day of the town festival) but I can't throw my time and money at a Troop and not get effort back in return. I look at some of these parents and can't help but feel sorry for there sons for being raised the way they are. What is gonna happen when there sons get to the real world or college and don't have the common sense to survive.

Oh there was this one time when we were having an recruitment overnight at the church our charter organization is at. Told the kids to bring some games and there would be dodgeball in the rec hall, and some other fun stuff. Kids brought Xbox's and none of the tv's at this church had the right hookups, then some parent said we couldn't play dodgeball because it was unsafe. I had brought some of my Dungeons and Dragons stuff with just in case, so i said here, lets play D&D. I have never found anyone who sat down to play D&D who didn't like it. Boy did i hear about that later on. The kids loved it, but there were some parents who got on me because they didn't like the idea of there son playing Dungeons and Dragons. WTF, so he can play God Of War, and Mario, but not D&D? Does this make sense to anyone? And I was never told they belonged so some religion that thought D&D was the devil. Again i'll say it. Parents today need to spend more time with there own kids, and less time watching sports center, or whatever it is some of these parents do.

 

[E'villeGunner]

How long ago did you work at the E'ville Scout office? My mom worked there back in the mid 90's....

I don't think I ever mentioned that I worked at the Scout Office, although I spent enough time there that it felt like I did. lol

You may be thinking Advancement Committee=Scout Office.
Each Troop will have it's own Advancement Committee with someone being Chairman for that Troop. I was with Troop #335 at Salem United Methodist Church with our Scout cabin in the back.