Text Released for HR 127 To provide for the licensing of firearm and ammunition possession and the registration of firearms, and to prohibit the posse

[jsx1043]

 

[actaeon277]

2C) Mandatory purchase of insurance to own a firearm.


really?
What insurances cover illegal acts?
The topic of shooting up schools was mentioned.
Well, ZERO insurances will cover that. So, now ALL guns are illegal.

 

[actaeon277]

3) Licensing fee of $800


Once again. An action is BAD.
Unless uncle Sam gets his cut.
Then it's okay.


Of course, it's also discrimination against the poor. Many of whom live in areas where they don't have many other options.
This is the epitome of "privilege".

 

[actaeon277]

4) Illegal (not NFA) to own a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.


Magazine limits only affect the DEFENDER.
An attacker will either break the law and carry a bigger magazine (because they're gonna kill people), or if they can't find bigger mags, they will carry MORE mags.

A defender usually will have the mag in the gun. Some carry another. And rarely, more than that. Yes, here on INGO, a lot of us have more. But think about the "average" gun owner.

So all you're doing with this one is affecting the citizen.

 

[actaeon277]

5) Description on what constitutes military style weapons


Ugh. Facepalm. Military "Style".
It's like they're admitting they're only going after what a gun looks like.
The "shoulder thingy that comes up".
Magazines are bad. But in your pistol, they're okay, as long as they're not "big" mags.
They're semi-auto, so, like a pistol, but for some reason in a rifle magically becomes bad.

 

[KG1]

Seems to me there are a few whose ideas of a compromise are just to let them put the tip in and trust them not to ram it home.

Count me out of your sordid affairs.

 

[jsx1043]

I’ll sign up for this as soon as there’s a corresponding law in place for everyone to assert their First Amendment rights, including politicians and the media.

Ignore the goober who mentions “ghost guns,” but here’s another good discussion from Tim Pool:

 

[jamil]

The absolute and utter refusal of so called "Law & Order" types to not only follow the law,
BUT THE INTENT OF THE LAW,
is what will eventually bring more controls & restrictions down...

I'd like you to expand on this idea before I throw in on it. Who is the so-called "Law & Order" types? What is the intent of the law you imply they're not following. And why would this necessarily lead to more gun laws?

 

[jamil]

Firearms owners are 30% of the voting population...
Takes at least a 34% minority to block a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

We don't have the votes to stop 2A from being severely restricted or entirely removed from the Constitution should it come to that.
2/3 super marjority carries the day.

It's time to think strategy instead of tactically or the potential is there to lose the war long term.

*IF* firearms owners don't come up with common sense ideas,
And FULLY ENDORSE the ideas/laws, then we *Could* lose the entire ball of wax...

It's past time to shut up and listen,
Put emphasis on adhering to current laws and show the general public WE can deal with some of this crap ourselves instead of continuously spouting the extremist propaganda of the far, Far, FAR right...
Just sound & fury resulting in nothing should things take a turn for the worst.

This is nonsense. First, the people don't have a direct vote in the matter. It is intentionally ***damn hard to change the constitution. So to change it, it can't simply be by mob rule. There needs to be a near consensus.

Constitutional Amendments can be proposed two ways. 1) Two thirds of both houses can propose an amendment by joint resolution (does not need president's signature). 2) By constitutional convention proposed by 2/3's of the states' legislatures. Once a constitutional amendment is proposed by either method, 3/4ths of the states' legislatures must ratify before the amendment becomes part of the constitution.

A constitutional convention just isn't going to happen, because of perceived fear of what might come of it. Imagine calling for a convention to strike the 2A and instead you end up with a convention to make abortion illegal! Lefties would **** themselves. Both sides fear what might come out of a constitutional convention. So the only realistic way an anti-2A amendment would be proposed is by a 2/3's joint resolution from both houses of congress. And even if the anti-gun ********ers had super-majorities in both houses, they still have to get 3/4's of states' legislatures to ratify it. So for the foreseeable future, I doubt we'll see the 2A changed.

More on "shut up and listen" later.

 

[jamil]

*IF* firearms owners don't come up with common sense ideas,
And FULLY ENDORSE the ideas/laws, then we *Could* lose the entire ball of wax...

It's past time to shut up and listen,
Put emphasis on adhering to current laws and show the general public WE can deal with some of this crap ourselves instead of continuously spouting the extremist propaganda of the far, Far, FAR right...
Just sound & fury resulting in nothing should things take a turn for the worst.

First, "shut up and listen" is the cry of tyrants. The proper public rebuttal to that is 1) of course **** you, but more importantly 2) both sides need a fair chance to put forth their ideas. "Shut up and listen" isn't conducive to a free society. Free speech is a disinfectant for bad ideas. If we're being told to shut up, it is probably for the purpose of letting bad ideas avoid the sunlight of the public square. So we need to push back on those nasty soy *****es saying "shut up and listen."

Okay, so common sense ideas. Common to whom? It's not common sense to say that prohibiting certain firearms is going to stop young sociopaths from wanting to kill people. Common sense says that we should instead try to figure out what is causing it and stop it. Common sense says that when these shootings happen, wall-to-wall media coverage will help perpetuate it. So no. Proposing "common sense" ideas is not going to work because what is common sense to us is not common sense to them.

They behave like they believe guns are the root cause. We behave like we believe something else is the root cause, and that restricting firearms ownership from law abiding people only hurts the law abiding people while not solving the root cause.

When I see a nationally televised "town hall" event, in which high school kids hysterically curse at, mock, and accuse law makers, 'reason' is not going to solve that. And they're not in the slightest embarrassed by that hysteria. Oh no. They're "brave". They're "speaking truth to power.". We're not dealing with rational people. We can't reason with hysterical.

It's not far FAR right to oppose any further restrictions on gun rights, especially when we've let anti-gun zealots have many victories as if they could be appeased. None of that solved the problems they proposed it would solve. And so I strongly suspect that what we're dealing with is a collectivist mindset which has the fundamental belief that people in societies should not be armed. There is no compromising with that.

So no. Saying not one more inch is not a far FAR right proposition. It's the sane proposition for people who want to retain their constitutional rights, in the face of ideologues. The right to keep and bear arms is fundamental to a free society. There are plenty of moderates and even some people on the left who believe that, even those who are not gun owners.

 

[jamil]

The above angriest in order
JH angry that the *** would post such excrement.
JB angry that the above *** posted such excrement.
JH angry that the *** would post such excrement.
JB angry that the above *** posted such excrement.
PHD angry that the above *** posted such excrement

DEFINITION: *** See the first line of Phylodog's post above, it is the three letter capitalized expletive.

I mean. It's okay to say POS. Even when you're starring it out, it still represents the thing you're laboriously trying not to say. You even post a map of where we can find the unsaid term. I mean, if you have to think to obfuscate the term, isn't that really not much different than typing out POS? If you're that opposed to saying it, wouldn't it be better to say the thing you're saying using language that avoids it altogether?

 

[jamil]

It baffles me how people can be so ******* stupid to believe this is a reasonable way forward for this country. Name one ******* thing that went away when humans decided to ban it? Just one. I'll start a list of **** that didn't hasn't and won't.

Murder
Rape
Robbery
Child abuse/molestation
Cocaine
Marijuana
Heroin
Methamphetamines
Alcohol

But this is gonna work this time, why? Because we're all soooo blessed to be living among our incredibly intelligent, wholesome and moral society?

Anyone who supports this doesn't deserve to enjoy the freedoms of this country and should be forced out. If freedom is too scary to deal with just move on.

My SIL classifies herself as a pacifist. She thinks if guns didn't exist there would be no more killing. As if hands and feet and knives and hammers and rocks and cars... it's an endless list.

 

[jamil]

Despite every single district, state and federal election board, which are all split right down the middle in political party,

And despite republicans being 50% (or more) of civilian OVERSIGHT committees on district, state & federal election, watching the watchers...

Not one single sustainable case of vote stealing, ballot box stuffing, ect came out of the election.
(Just Qanon and Trump claims)

63 law suits filed, NOT EVEN ONE provable case of election fraud, all 63 thrown out due to lack of evidence, and by more than 50% Republican judges!
68% Republican judges to be exact...

Now you drag PROVEN FALSE claims of election fraud on a mass scale into a debate about firearms regulation...
I'd say that's a two fold problem,
1. Belief in false/fictions conspiracy theories.
2. Inability to focus on the subject at hand.

Now, let's go to who really stole elections...
2000 & 2004 elections where Dibold machines threw 3/5 (fractions when whole numbers should have came up) to GWB in at least 5 states,
And let's not forget the 68,000 votes that showed up in storage lockers in Florida after the 2000 election that GWBs brother put a gag order on discussing...

Florida was the swing state that got GWB appointed president by the electorial collage,
GWB didn't win the popular vote in either of his elections, was an appointed president.

As a result of 2000, 2004 election 'Irrigularites' Dibold wasn't allowed to make the software for its own machines after a congressional investigation, a 3rd party was required to make that software.

The new generation of voting machines everyone is loosing their minds about CAN NOT throw the vote, has to be hard wired/hard programmed to NOT be tampered with simply because congress required it.

Let's not forget the so called 'Republican Swing States' refuse to join 43 other states in a data base that checks for multiple voter registration overlap, Florida being the state that resists the hardest, even having a legislature/governor (Bush) that passed laws against joining...

If you want to talk about election fraud, let's talk Republican gerrymandering, purging inner city voter rolls, voting machine to voter ratios in inner cities, ect.

I'm sure Qanon and the other extremist propaganda sites don't work those proven facts into the conspiracy theories, no time with spreading crap like Biden is actually JFK Jr in a CGI mask & Trump being a billion year old alien sent here to cure all illness...

One thing you can say, the conspiracy theory extremists aren't short of imagination!

Joe Biden is JFK Jr: wild Q conspiracies

Joe Biden is really John F. Kennedy Jnr in a CGI mask and Donald Trump is a billion-year-old intergalactic being made of pure starlight who plans to introduce a cure for all disease in his second term.

www.news.com.au

There's a thread for that discussion. Probably should litigate it there.

 

[jamil]

Already did, I don't have a dog in the fight.

Remember, I can, and already have passed the background checks...

Nothing in that bill draft that covers NFA firearms.
I'm pretty sure I can forego a semi/civilian AR or AK clone and just keep my NFA versions.

AND, calling me a 'Rat' won't get you anywhere at all, no points for name calling, making false accusations.
At no time have I ever expressed any opinion on anything but following both the word & intent of the law for myself and anyone I deal with.

If YOU want to break the laws, or intent of the law, that's entirely on you.
Something about birds of a feather in there somewhere...

I was only born with my balls and my word, I won't break either, so conspiracy theorist/slow/shiftliss types are about as worrysome to me as a passing fly on a sunny day...

You were wrong about some very fundamental things. And you won? And why is that a thing to be sought? Isn't it just a discussion? People make points and counter points until discussions fizzle.

 

[Pepi]

None of this nonsense would make it through the courts unless ... You know, the thing

 

[IndyDave1776]

) Registration of all firearms with database being accessable by law enforcement, military, any govt. agency, and the general public.

Well, Indiana had registration. It costs lots of $$$ and effort.
Then they figured it really was a waste of effort, time, and $ that could be better used elsewhere.
It was fraught with errors, and there was massive non-compliance.
Canada had the same problem.
Other States also.

But I'm sure the Feds will do it right.
Just like I'm sure socialism will work when they do it right.

You're being too practical. You have to remember that the Indiana.gov had no intention of disarming its citizens and dragging off those deemed less than charming for reeducation, if they made it that far. By contrast when the .gov us fixated on doing things like that, the cost is irrelevant as is the accuracy since, after all, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

 

[IndyDave1776]

My SIL classifies herself as a pacifist. She thinks if guns didn't exist there would be no more killing. As if hands and feet and knives and hammers and rocks and cars... it's an endless list.

Blame it on China! There was no killing until those little bastards invented gunpowder!

 

[jamil]

So now somebody is offering a misguided idea to correct the situation, and the same generations that created the problems are freaking out about their self entitled importance talking about 'Freedoms' to do any idiot idea that pops into their heads...

This is a mischaracterization. No one is advocating to do any idiotic idea that pops into their heads? The status quo WAS the common sense thing. The world progressives propose is the bat **** crazy thing. It is unlivable.

And why level blame on an entire generation? That's a silly generalization not thought out by understanding. This generation is a product of the last generation which was a product of the previous generation which was a product of the previous generation. Yeah. Previous generation all the way down. If you can point to a behavior that your generation would have done differently if it were in the exact position of the previous, I just can't wait to hear it.

Of course that goes both ways. My generation pokes a lot of fun at millennials and zoomers. But, if my generation had gen X as parents and grew up in the world of technology and social media, would it have been any different? No. It's a tautology. Then it wouldn't be the same generation. That's why it's nonsense to blame previous generations for. really. anything. You spend time in their exact shoes, with their exact world inputs and then you can tell me all about generational blame.

Place yourself in the Southern US in the first half of the 19th century and tell me all about how you would have been the abolitionist. Place yourself as a citizen of Germany 100 years later, and tell me how you would have fought Hitler.

 

[jamil]

You can't loose 'Freedoms' that are an illusion inn the first place,
But since it's not coming from 'Alternative' (propaganda), social engineering sources, you won't believe it, opting for crap like Biden is JFK Jr. in a 'CGI' mask, the election was stolen, Labor unions are 'Bad', anyone that didn't vote for Trump is a communist, the list goes on endlessly...

There are at least two sides to a thing. You're representing one side exclusively, which isn't the same thing as telling the truth.

The 2A does exist. That's not an illusion, though it is one of the most often maligned constitutional rights, it is a right that Americans have.

Biden is JFK Jr. in a 'CGI' mask. I haven't heard that one before. And I don't think it's even figuratively true. Biden is far to the left of JFK. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a significant number of people who actually believe that he's literally JFK. You may have gotten that impression from consumption of left wing propaganda. Or perhaps from disproportionate weighting of proportionality from people who have expressed it.

Labor unions aren't ALL bad. But there is an awful lot of 'bad' in labor unions. They're mostly corrupt organizations primarily focused on power and legally extracting wealth from members.

Not everyone who didn't vote for Trump is a communist. But many are.

 

[phylodog]

My SIL classifies herself as a pacifist. She thinks if guns didn't exist there would be no more killing. As if hands and feet and knives and hammers and rocks and cars... it's an endless list.

If there were no more guns there would be no more gun killings, that much is true. What that thought process fails to consider, and why it is completely irrelevant, is that there is no way for that to happen. Putting bans in place does not yield the results they so desperately want. When I've explained that to the few liberals/progressives/leftists which I've actually been able to carry on a conversation with long enough to get to that point they have always said "well we have to do something". It doesn't seem to matter that their something is doomed to failure, they just want to be able to tell themselves they did something which I guess puts their conscience at ease? I'll never understand it.