Stocks, Gold, Silver, and the printing press.

[smokingman]

Debt ceiling breached again.Congress is to vote to raise the debt limit on January 27,2012.

So how will the government function until then?Simple it will pillage the government retirement fund(for the second time).

• U.S. SUSPENDS PAYMENTS TO PENSION FUND TO AVOID DEBT CAP BREACH
• GEITHNER INFORMS CONGRESS ON SUSPENSION OF PAYMENTS TO FUND
• GEITHNER SAYS `G' FUND PARTICIPANTS `UNAFFECTED' BY SUSPENSION
• GEITHNER SAYS `G' FUND TO BE MADE WHOLE AFTER DEBT LIMIT RAISED
• GEITHNER: DEBT LIMIT WILL BE INCREASED JAN. 27 UNLESS BLOCKED

In other words: Congress better pass the debt ceiling prontt, or else it will have to explain to government retirees the tens of billions in deficit funds, i.e., marketable debt, already issued will permanently offset the level in G-fund holdings.

Treasury Resumes Pillaging Retirement Accounts To Fund Deficit Spending Until Debt Ceiling Raised | ZeroHedge


Remember me pointing out almost 2 years ago now the relation to the dollar index and the stock market? Dollar down stocks up(same company is worth more devalued dollars,dollar up stocks down). It has now reached 100% parity.
You can see the dives that are occasionally taken to goose the markets and we have another one this morning with the Dollar down 1%, making the 1% pop in the futures slightly less impressive when taken in context.

Nice chart of this relationship at the link below.

Commentary

I am editing this to add one of the indexes I watch.The Baltic dry.It is now at levels last seen in late 2008 early 2009.Down over 60% in the last 23 days.Currently well below 1200,the level at which shippers lose money(cost of fuel,crew,and maintenance is more than they earn). Shiping companies will reorganize and some will go bankrupt(again)at this level for sure.Currently the BDI is at 974,compared to 2161 at the end of October.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=BDIY:IND

 

[teddy12b]

Geesh, at what point does a guy cash in his 401 for gold/silver. I think its soon.

 

[smokingman]

It appears money printing even in the face of multi-trillion debt deleveraging can be inflationary. Finally, and in pulling a page straight out of the BLS playbook, the BLS announced it would change the weighting in its PPI categories. "The new weights, which will be introduced in February 2012 with the release of January 2012 index data, will be based on shipment values from the year 2007. These value weights come from the Census of Manufactures, the Census of Mining, the Census of Services, and the Census of Agriculture. PPI weights have been based on 2002 census shipment values since January 2007. All PPIs will be affected by this weight update, including all the industry net output indexes, as well as indexes for traditional commodity groupings. In addition, weights will be updated from the 2002 to the 2007 census for all stage-of-processing indexes, durability of product indexes, and special commodity-grouping indexes. This weight revision will not change any arithmetic reference bases for indexes, the dates when PPIs were set to 100." This is a lot of words to say that going forward even more inflation will be crammed into smoothed core price indices, so as to completely ignore any swings in the margins. Because after all who cares about energy and food?

Headline PPI Drops By 0.1%, Core PPI Rises By 0.3%, Highest Y/Y NSA Jump Since June 2009, BLS To Change PPI Weights | ZeroHedge

I guess when the "official" inflation figures are showing HIGH inflation there is only one thing the government can do.Change how they calculate the figures.Not shocked.More good news in February,inflation will miraculously be down "officially".Horrayyyyy.

I am totally disgusted.

 

[smokingman]

In other news it seems every country on earth that holds US debt has been selling it all year.

Russia has reduced holdings by over 50%
China by 10%

Official data here---> http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

Of course the gorilla in the room is the Federal Reserve.Which increased holdings and now holds more US debt than the next largest 3 combined.That of course is not listed on the report.

 

[Stschil]

"Let me issue and control a Nation's money and I care not who makes its laws".
*
Letter written from London by the Rothschilds to their New* York agents introducing their banking method into America:* "The few who can understand the system will be either so* interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours,* that there will be no opposition from that class, while, on* the other hand, that great body of people, mentally* incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that* Capital derives from the system, will bear its burden* without complaint and, perhaps, without even suspecting* that the system is inimical to their interests."*

Rothschilds & Rockefellers - Trillionaires Of The World

Interesting, since the Rothchilds and Rockefellers are two of the largest holders of Federal Reserve Stock.......


I am still amazes that, with all the evidence that the FED is a collusion of power and greed controlling our nation through its finances, citizens will not wake up and realize that our "Republic" has been a sham for nearly 100 years.

(added: 1913-institution of the Federal Reserve AND Ratification of the 16th Amendment, giving Congress the Authority to levy an Income Tax. A very BAD year for the United States)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

[smokingman]

Rothschilds & Rockefellers - Trillionaires Of The World

Interesting, since the Rothchilds and Rockefellers are two of the largest holders of Federal Reserve Stock.......


I am still amazes that, with all the evidence that the FED is a collusion of power and greed controlling our nation through its finances, citizens will not wake up and realize that our "Republic" has been a sham for some 80 years.

Agreed.It is also funny how no Rothchild or Rockefeller has ever made Forbes wealthiest list,but when you own the media....

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Yes. Print your stuff out on text-edit and proof it a few times.

ELIMINATE cutesy abbrevs. and acronyms for our benefit; what does the Queen Elizabeth-1 or -2 have to do with the economy? Make no assumptions; to do so makes you appear pedantic and as a pedagog. If you have 2 or more points, itemize and number them. You'll get a much better cross-section of responses.=)

I am sure some intelligent things were said in the original post, but its lack of formatting plays with my eyes and I cant muster the effort to read it.

 

[CarmelHP]

Agreed.It is also funny how no Rothchild or Rockefeller has ever made Forbes wealthiest list,but when you own the media....

You mean Hitler was right? It is all just a conspiracy of International bankers? I know INGO loves to wallow in filthy conspiracy theories like this, but it is bull.

See, Who owns and controls the Federal Reserve.

 

[smokingman]

You mean Hitler was right? It is all just a conspiracy of International bankers? I know INGO loves to wallow in filthy conspiracy theories like this, but it is bull.

See, Who owns and controls the Federal Reserve.

I see a problem with that article as well.

"The Federal Reserve System certainly makes large profits. According to the Board's 1995 Annual Report, the System had net income totaling $23.9 billion, which, if it were a single firm, would qualify it as one of the most profitable companies in the world. How were these profits distributed? By an agreement between the Board of Governors and the Treasury, nearly all of the Fed's annual profits are paid to the federal government. Accordingly, a lion's share of $23.4 billion, which represents 97.9 percent of the Federal Reserve's net income, was transferred to the Treasury. The Federal Reserve Banks kept $283 million, and the remaining $231 million was paid to its stockholders as dividends."

The problem is in the figures."After all necessary expenses of a Federal reserve bank have been paid or provided for, the stockholders of the bank shall be entitled to receive an annual dividend of 6 percent on paid-in capital stock." So all expenses are paid,then a 6% dividend is paid to share holders BY LAW. FRB: Federal Reserve Act: Section 7

Federal Reserve pays $77B to Uncle Sam

The Federal Reserve paid the federal government $76.9 billion in 2011
Dividend of 6% would be roughly 4.6 billion.
I at least noticed the Federal Reserves website no longer mentions this(it used to). It is still clearly in the Fed charter,per section 7 of the website.

According to your source the FED keeps less than one percent,and the FED charter clearly states they get a 6% dividend AFTER all expenses are paid.My guess is the one percent in your article was expenses,it never mentions the 6%.

Your article also tries to discredit several other people about who owns the FED.It does so with out actually saying anything about who the share holders are.It simply states "these guys are wrong here is why" but does not back up those assumptions with any facts.It would be very simple to clear the matter up once and for all.Make the shareholders public.That has been tried before.
Here is also a little fact for you.Everyone agrees the Federal Reserve makes at least some profit as a private corporation.Every corporation in America must file yearly tax forms including income and expenses.The FED in the 98 years it has been in business has never filed a tax return.WHY?
We know it makes a profit.We know it pays a dividend to share holders.
It is above the law.
It has never had a full audit.No one on earth knows how much money it has created,who it has lent to,or where that money is.It has more power than any government on earth.Through currency swaps it has bailed out Europe.
The discount window lends hundreds of billions of dollars to banks at near 0 interest,then thanks to the financial stability act those loans are placed back into the FED to earn interest.The banks earned over 13 billion in two years from this practice(we know this thanks to tax returns and Bloomberg).Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks $13 Billion Undisclosed to Congress - Bloomberg

How is it not evil again?

 

[CarmelHP]

Your article also tries to discredit several other people about who owns the FED.It does so with out actually saying anything about who the share holders are.It simply states "these guys are wrong here is why" but does not back up those assumptions with any facts.It would be very simple to clear the matter up once and for all.Make the shareholders public.That has been tried before.
Here is also a little fact for you.Everyone agrees the Federal Reserve makes at least some profit as a private corporation.Every corporation in America must file yearly tax forms including income and expenses.The FED in the 98 years it has been in business has never filed a tax return.WHY?
We know it makes a profit.We know it pays a dividend to share holders.
It is above the law.
It has never had a full audit.No one on earth knows how much money it has created,who it has lent to,or where that money is.It has more power than any government on earth.Through currency swaps it has bailed out Europe.
The discount window lends hundreds of billions of dollars to banks at near 0 interest,then thanks to the financial stability act those loans are placed back into the FED to earn interest.The banks earned over 13 billion in two years from this practice(we know this thanks to tax returns and Bloomberg).Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks $13 Billion Undisclosed to Congress - Bloomberg

How is it not evil again?

No one said the Fed itself isn't evil, or that the people who control it aren't evil; the point of contention is whether it's a cabal of foreign "International" bankers or the U.S. Government and U.S. commercial banks. If you think the article doesn't say who owns it, you didn't read it. It's owned by member banks, each of which gets one vote, no proportional voting. The banks, publicly traded companies, are not owned by the people you mentioned, at least not with a greater than 5% (five per cent) share, which would trigger reporting requirements. Your argument above conflates the Fed with it's member banks. If the member banks are to be paid a 6% dividend then that would be an expense or distribution, not earnings of the Fed itself and not retained by the system itself.

 

[John Galt]

(added: 1913-institution of the Federal Reserve AND Ratification of the 16th Amendment, giving Congress the Authority to levy an Income Tax. A very BAD year for the United States)

Federal Reserve System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't forget the 17th Amendment, which changed how we elect Senators. I would say that history can pinpoint 1913 as the beginning of the end of the era of the First Revolution.

 

[Stschil]

You mean Hitler was right? It is all just a conspiracy of International bankers? I know INGO loves to wallow in filthy conspiracy theories like this, but it is bull.

See, Who owns and controls the Federal Reserve.

Must be true....it's on the interwebz.
Here is some more internetz stuff I found. It's a long read, but it basically is a paper that was put together to help Congress vet Nelson Rockefeller when Ford nominated him as VP after Tricky Dick resigned. It makes suggestions as to how to probe the financial depths of the Rockefeller fortune. Along the way, it shows how easlily money and financial power can be hidden from public and even government scrutiny.

Probing the Rockefeller Fortune

**** Although Chase Manhattan Bank has been hesitant until very recently to reveal the exact size of its holdings in major companies, many corporations regulated by the government have been required to divulge the names of their top 30 stockholders.* In a geat many cases these large holdings are found to be in Chase Manhattan Bank under such "owners" as Cudd & Company, Kane & Company, and Eggers & Company.* These little-known, strange-sounding organizations are the "street names" or "nominees' under which the banks organize the stocks and other assets that they hold for beneficial owners.* Some banks have 20 to 30 street names in which they hold various accounts -- Chase is one of the largest with 25 street names.

**** Bankers insist that street names are used for purely administrative purposes, but such street names nonetheless cut the public off from any understanding of the actual ownership and control of large corporations.* Thus, the 8.3% of American Airlines stock held by Chase Manhattan in 1972 is listed as being held by Kane & Co., 1,175,257 shares; Gooss & Co., 306,600 shares; Cudd & Co., 251,856 shares.

**** In short, Rockefeller economic power in a number of corporations may be buried in street name accounts at the Chase Manhattan and other banks.* It therefore might be fruitful to pursue a line of questioning that revealed the cumulative impact of Rockefeller family trust funds.* First, it would be necessary to learn Rockefeller voting rights for any company in which Chase Manhattan Bank's trust department holds more than 1% of the stock.[11]

Still reading, and I hope to find something from the Confirmation hearings of the time as well.
"Who" each member banks lists as large holders of stock is not a true repesentation of the influence one or more of the families in question my wield.
It is enitrely possible for these financial giants to have great amounts of voting influence within the FED without their real names showing up on the surface through such street named accounts, spread across many different member banks.

 

[smokingman]

No one said the Fed itself isn't evil, or that the people who control it aren't evil; the point of contention is whether it's a cabal of foreign "International" bankers or the U.S. Government and U.S. commercial banks. If you think the article doesn't say who owns it, you didn't read it. It's owned by member banks, each of which gets one vote, no proportional voting. The banks, publicly traded companies, are not owned by the people you mentioned, at least not with a greater than 5% (five per cent) share, which would trigger reporting requirements. Your argument above conflates the Fed with it's member banks. If the member banks are to be paid a 6% dividend then that would be an expense or distribution, not earnings of the Fed itself and not retained by the system itself.

Who owns the member banks? Google top share holders of Goldman,Bank of America,JP Morgan chase ect.Know who the majority of shareholders are? Each other.The majority owners of the 6 largest financial institutions in the world is each other.How could one own more than 5% with out reporting it? Simple do not own it directly.Between banks owning each other,hedge fund ownership,and other institutional ownership(think Buffet like)there is very little known about who actually owns what.It was designed this way.So to say the FED is owned by the member banks is just white wash.It really says nothing of actual ownership.
For example Bank of America top shareholders.

STATE STREET CORPORATION 455,747,401
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. 383,805,234
BlackRock Institutional Trust Company, 251,443,830
JP MORGAN CHASE & COMPANY 223,424,792
CITIGROUP INC. 168,473,535
WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLP136,968,555
GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP INC114,353,607
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=BAC+Major+Holders

 

[CarmelHP]

Come back when you have something more than flimsy innuendo. Once again, member banks get 1 vote, regardless of size.

One question, why is it so important to believe to that a small cabal of international bankers controls everything?

 

[smokingman]

Come back when you have something more than flimsy innuendo. Once again, member banks get 1 vote, regardless of size.

One question, why is it so important to believe to that a small cabal of international bankers controls everything?

You are wrong.Member banks have 0 say in monetary policy(banks who own the Fed Branches).Inside the Federal Reserve system is the Federal Open Market Committee.The committee is made up of the presidents of each Federal Reserve regional bank.They do not all get a vote however.

"There are 12 voting members of the FOMC: the seven members of Board of Governors and the presidents of five of the 12 Federal Reserve Banks. The president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York is a permanent voting member of the Committee, and the presidents of the other Reserve Banks serve one-year terms as voting members in a rotation that is set by law. Nine of the Reserve Bank presidents vote one year out of every three, while the presidents of the Federal Reserve Banks of Chicago and Cleveland vote in alternate years"
Federal Open Market Committee - Fedpoints - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

All branches of the Federal Reserve system are not equal either.
"
By tradition, the chairman of the Board of Governors serves as FOMC chairman and the president of the New York Fed as FOMC vice chairman. If a voting Federal Reserve Bank president misses an FOMC meeting, another Bank president votes in his/her place. However, if the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York is absent, the first vice president of the New York Fed votes instead.
The status accorded the New York Fed is in recognition of the unique role that the Bank plays in the Federal Reserve System. For example, all of the open market operations—the buying and selling of U.S. government securities in the secondary market to influence money and credit conditions in the economy—that the Federal Reserve conducts are carried out by the New York Fed. Also, when the U.S. monetary authorities, the Fed and the Treasury, decide to intervene in the foreign exchange market, it is the New York Fed that carries out the intervention." Federal Open Market Committee - Fedpoints - Federal Reserve Bank of New York


That said.I am not worried about who votes,who does not vote,or which regional Federal Reserve bank has what powers.My concern is who owns those regional reserve banks.The answer given by the Federal Reserve is the banks they serve.
Those banks,the largest 6 specifically are largely owned by each other and a few very large funds such as Berkshire,Black Rock,and State Street.To say these banks are not owned in the majority by a very few international bankers is absurd.It is not speculation,you can clearly see it as I posted a link that showed who the top share holders are.I will concede they are all publicly traded(accept for preferred shares),the majority of the stock is not for sale and is held by other large banks and large funds.


Do I really care who owns or has a controlling influence in the Federal Reserve system?No,I do not.The system in and of itself is enough to warrant my hatred,regardless of who owns what.


In other news.
Silver had the second best day as a percentage gain Friday.
1/21/2012
Silver$32.14 up 5.8%


Little commentary by Jeff Cox of CNBC,one of the few reporters I have any respect for.He will twist facts and figures the same as any other reporter,but he does on occasion speak his mind.


By: Jeff Cox
CNBC.com Senior Writer

The Federal Reserve is likely to step in with $1 trillion worth of easing that could be announced as soon as this month, according to a growing consensus of economists who see the recent uptick in economic growth as unsustainable.
http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/With the Fed’s Open Market Committeeset to meet next week, expectations are rising that the languishing housing market will drive the central bank to buy up mortgage-backed securities.
The goal of the purchases will be to drive down interest rates even further from current record-low levels, and, less obviously, to spur confidence that more monetary tools remain to stimulate the economy.
Of course, the announcement also could push stock prices higher, as did the Fed’s last balance sheet expansion begun in November 2010.​

 

[smokingman]

No Intention By Euro Zone To Give More Money To Greece At This Point - Sources - WSJ.com

Euro-zone finance ministers have told their Greek counterpart Evangelos Venizelos that Athens shouldn't expect an increase in a planned bailout loan despite a deteriorating economy, people with knowledge of the matter said Monday. They said major creditors such as Germany made it clear that an agreed EUR130 billion bailout loan "won't be increased by a single euro" and that any shortfalls must be covered by either more austerity measures or a greater loss by Greece's private creditors currently negotiating a 50% haircut with Athens.
"The International Monetary Fund has a similar stance. That Greece won't be given any more money beyond the second loan agreed in October," one of the officials with direct knowledge of the talks in Brussels said.



Look out below.Time. 12:45 eastern. 1/23/2012

 

[smokingman]

Gold Rises to 7-Week High as Dollar Alternative - Bloomberg

Silver for March delivery climbed 0.7 percent to $33.345 an ounce on the Comex and earlier traded at $33.595, the highest price since Dec. 2.

Gold climbed to an almost seven-week high in New York on speculation that the Federal Reserve’s pledge to keep interest rates low will drive the dollar lower and boost demand for precious metals as an alternative asset.
Futures rose 2.1 percent yesterday after the Fed said its benchmark interest rate will stay low until at least late 2014. Low rates mean gold is more competitive against assets that pay dividends or interest. The dollar dropped as much as 0.5 percent against the euro today. Holdings of gold in exchange-traded funds jumped 0.4 percent yesterday and U.S. The U.S. Mint’s January gold and silver coin sales are the most in a year.



Baltic Dry Plunges 42% More Than Seasonal Norm To Start The Year | ZeroHedge
so far this year the Baltic Dry has fallen 42% more than its seasonal normal and is down by more than 50% since 12/30/11. Nothing to see here move along.

And The Winner Is...Gold | ZeroHedge
Year-to-date, Gold is up an impressive 9.4%, significantly outpacing the S&P 500 at +5.6% and the disappointing 2% loss (in price) for the 30Y bond.

 

[CarmelHP]

You are wrong.

No, I'm not.

Member banks have 0 say in monetary policy(banks who own the Fed Branches).Inside the Federal Reserve system is the Federal Open Market Committee.The committee is made up of the presidents of each Federal Reserve regional bank.They do not all get a vote however.

Member banks, each with 1 vote, elect the Regional Fed presidents who are committee members.

That said.I am not worried about who votes,who does not vote,or which regional Federal Reserve bank has what powers.My concern is who owns those regional reserve banks.The answer given by the Federal Reserve is the banks they serve.

Could have fooled me.

Those banks,the largest 6 specifically are largely owned by each other and a few very large funds such as Berkshire,Black Rock,and State Street.To say these banks are not owned in the majority by a very few international bankers is absurd.

It is absurb to claim it without any proof.

It is not speculation,you can clearly see it as I posted a link that showed who the top share holders are.I will concede they are all publicly traded(accept for preferred shares),the majority of the stock is not for sale and is held by other large banks and large funds.

Posted a link? Is this the same fellow who sneered, "Must be true....it's on the interwebz." None of the owners listed as owning BAC support your conspiracy theory of the Rothchilds and Rockefellers owning all the member banks. And it doesn't matter how big the banks are, they still get one vote in electing regional officers who are members of Fed committees.

Do I really care who owns or has a controlling influence in the Federal Reserve system?No,I do not.The system in and of itself is enough to warrant my hatred,regardless of who owns what.

On that we can agree.

 

[Stschil]

I made the comment about the interwebz.

If anger or any other feeling shall directed at anyone, it should be to the right person

 

[CarmelHP]

I made the comment about the interwebz.

If anger or any other feeling shall directed at anyone, it should be to the right person

A pox on you for a scoundrel then!